2023 Season

[Adam43]

Argh. It wasn’t even a subtle hint. No, you are the person taking it to this point. OK. As we can see with that last post.

[PhilipR]

I think when looking at the issue of Human Rights I think we should look at who is the organiser and who is the beneficiary

In Europe and US, I believe majority of GPs are organised by private organisations using mainly private funds. The state or local council only contributes little to it. However in more recent GPs, the state is active in organising these events(SA, Qatar, Russia, Abu Dhabi) and they use these events to promote their countries. In this case I believe the situation becomes political and should be fair to be questioned on matters such as Human Rights

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

I think when looking at the issue of Human Rights I think we should look at who is the organiser and who is the beneficiary

In Europe and US, I believe majority of GPs are organised by private organisations using mainly private funds. The state or local council only contributes little to it. However in more recent GPs, the state is active in organising these events(SA, Qatar, Russia, Abu Dhabi) and they use these events to promote their countries. In this case I believe the situation becomes political and should be fair to be questioned on matters such as Human Rights

Agreed. And aside from human rights there's democracy, civil rights etc. To me it seems a lot better to have some standards instead of none, and not reduce the question to the sort of what-about-ism that trivialises just about everything.

The (worst) issue is for me when an incredibly non-democratic state uses state funds to host a Grand Prix. It's sports-washing meant to elevate the country in the eyes of the world while using money coming of the back of people who get little benefit from their state. I think it's tragic that many sports (F1, football among them) have such low standards in this regard.

I think Freedom House's world ranknings are a worthwile look for many people. A quick read of any of the country profile towards the bottom hosting F1 should be chilling to most people.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/aze...dom-world/2022

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

In Europe and US, I believe majority of GPs are organised by private organisations using mainly private funds.

When Honda and Red Bull both host a Grand Prix, why are Mercedes and Alpine too cheap to host one? Supposedly Honda's Japanese Grand Prix even has some of the most reasonable ticket prices of the calendar. I'm unsure of the ticket prices for the Austrian Grand Prix.

You'd think Mercedes and Alpine would use their cost cap savings to host domestic Grands Prix respectively...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

When Honda and Red Bull both host a Grand Prix, why are Mercedes and Alpine too cheap to host one? Supposedly Honda's Japanese Grand Prix even has some of the most reasonable ticket prices of the calendar. I'm unsure of the ticket prices for the Austrian Grand Prix.

You'd think Mercedes and Alpine would use their cost cap savings to host domestic Grands Prix respectively...

It needs to be borne in mind that the Suzuka circuit is owned by Honda so that may have a bearing on the naming of the race.

I can't remember whether Toyota's name was included in the race title a few years ago when the race was held at Fuji, as they happen (or used) to own that.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It needs to be borne in mind that the Suzuka circuit is owned by Honda so that may have a bearing on the naming of the race.

I can't remember whether Toyota's name was included in the race title a few years ago when the race was held at Fuji, as they happen (or used) to own that.

A couple of things I should have mentioned in my other post. One is that, of course, Red Bull host the GP at their own circuit, so that's a good enough reason to be the host.

Secondly, Suzuka may have the lowest prices (I don't know as I have never paid to be there for the GPs) but it needs to be remembered that the circuit doesn't need to rely on big ticket events to bolster it's balance sheet. The circuit is actually only a part of the complex that consists of a motoring theme park, with restaurants, hotels and many other features, all of which attract visitors year round. Also, the Japanese spectators are, on the whole, far more passionate about all forms of auto events, not just F1, than nearly any other nationality.

On my last visit there, when we left some hours after the end of the GP, there were still thousands of spectators sat around the circuit watching re-runs with replays of incidents/action of the race on the huge screens dotted around the track. And there were plenty of people enjoying the theme park as well. We didn't stop any longer as we still had an 8 hour drive back to Tokyo to get on with.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

When Honda and Red Bull both host a Grand Prix, why are Mercedes and Alpine too cheap to host one?

Which circuits do Mercedes or Alpine own to enable them to host a GP?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Which circuits do Mercedes or Alpine own to enable them to host a GP?

Exactly! Too cheap to even own a circuit let alone host their domestic Grand Prix.

One notes that Red Bull and Honda both invested in B-teams, Toro Rosso and Super Aguri respectively, while again Mercedes or Alpine didn't do that and then just complain about the others having B-teams instead of simply making their own B-team (Manor or Caterham were available for purchase for example).

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Exactly! Too cheap to even own a circuit let alone host their domestic Grand Prix.

Maybe Mercedes invested their money in 7x WDCs and 8x WCCs in a row instead?

Although on a serious note - the structure of the companies behind Mercedes and Alpine's F1 entries is very different to Red Bull and Honda respectively. They operate in very different ways, and it would be disingenuous to call them 'cheap'. They just have different corporate aspirations.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Exactly! Too cheap to even own a circuit let alone host their domestic Grand Prix.

So every team should own their own circuit, why, when they aren't allowed to use it for testing as needed. Even when there was unlimited testing Ferrari was the only team who had their own track, it being multi purpose both for race car testing and road car development.

[midgetman]

The major difference was attendance wasn't compulsory like with today's World Championship.

A lot of those "non-championship" races back into the 50s featured at most one or two "stars" backed up by a rag-tag entry of locals in old single seater machinery that lapped many, many seconds per lap slower than the front of the field. Even as recently as the 70s Silverstone's International Trophy was padded out with F5000 cars which outnumbered the F1s. It was hardly a major sporting event, the first big race I attended was the '77 IT and it wasn't rivetting.

A very different scene compared with 24 top-line races and not comparable IMO.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[GTRMagic]

Mitsubishi was the naming rights partner of the first Adelaide F1 Grand Prix back in 1985…

Adelaide Alive..

[S griffin]

Mercedes do have the Mercedes grandstands at both Hockenheim and the Nurburgring, but don't own either AFAIK.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Mercedes do have the Mercedes grandstands at both Hockenheim and the Nurburgring, but don't own either AFAIK.

It's called sponsorship and advertising.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

It's called sponsorship and advertising.

I don't think S griffin suggested anything different?

He just said they have stands there, but didn't say anything about ownership.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Mercedes do have the Mercedes grandstands at both Hockenheim and the Nurburgring, but don't own either AFAIK.

IIRC,

The Nürburgring is owned by a Russian billionaire (not sure if sanctions have affected this).
Hockenheim-Ring GmbH is a company in its own right.

[S griffin]

As well as that, the F1 personal have families. I don't agree with 'if you can't cope, get out', plenty of them do understand the sacrifices, but I feel F1 is really pushing them too far with the silly amount of races we have now

[Hawkwood]

Lopping off a couple of races from the schedule could be a nice bit of money saving...

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Lopping off a couple of races from the schedule could be a nice bit of money saving...

But holding races is what makes them money.Sanctioning fees,tv contracts etc
Guaranteed that 24 number is somewhere in every new tv contract they sign and they will lose money for every race below 24 that they don’t hold.
I think 24 is pushing it for the team members in particular but there’s no way they can go back to 20 even if they wanted to.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Alan52

But holding races is what makes them money.Sanctioning fees,tv contracts etc
Guaranteed that 24 number is somewhere in every new tv contract they sign and they will lose money for every race below 24 that they don’t hold.
I think 24 is pushing it for the team members in particular but there’s no way they can go back to 20 even if they wanted to.

Spot on.

Do you want more races? No.

Do you want less money? Errr....

(A bit like:

Do you want more teams? Sure, no problem.

Do you want less money? Errr....)

[S griffin]

The fact of the matter is F1 has become too big for it's boots and as a result we've ended up with way too many races. I'm sure if they could keep costs under control, then they could do with less races

[bathurst77]

Always surprising to see fans saying they want "less" of what they love.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Always surprising to see fans saying they want "less" of what they love.

Not heard of the saying 'Less is more'?

[dsg]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Not heard of the saying 'Less is more'?

Only by people who have less.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Always surprising to see fans saying they want "less" of what they love.

It's the concept of "Too Much". Too much is bad for you. https://youtu.be/XewVicFzRxw

I'm all for more of what I love. Bashing out a load more Grand Prix doesn't achieve this. It actually reduces my love for it.

But it is obvious why they do it. Obviously it generates more income, even if revenue per unit drops the volume will outweigh this. Obvs.

Doesn't mean I'm not turned off by this.