[FIA GT] GT1 mid season review

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by cmk

If 12 hours of cut and thrust between 4 manufacturers thus far in the big show hasn't shown how great real endurance sportscar racing is, I don't know what will. The GT1 series is better touring cars than WTCC 90% of the time, that's about it. And yes, I do watch some of the races; about to view yesterday's championship race right now.

C'mon CMK, that doesn't mean nobody should try it, what has tradition gotten you? Stagnant growth, you are just attracting the purist when you have typically length GT racing.

I'll say it again, are you saying you rather return to no pictures and just have internet radio if they'll just go back to 500km events?

If not, then you'll have to give up something. How well does the LMS work with 1,000km races and 5-6 events a year?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

C'mon CMK, that doesn't mean nobody should try it, what has tradition gotten you? Stagnant growth, you are just attracting the purist when you have typically length GT racing.

I'll say it again, are you saying you rather return to no pictures and just have internet radio if they'll just go back to 500km events?

If not, then you'll have to give up something. How well does the LMS work with 1,000km races and 5-6 events a year?

C'mon, somebody has to jump off the bridge, Billy Joe McCallister did!






L.P.

[The359]

I love it. There's space in the world for two types of sports car racing. It's almost the closest thing to a modern Trans-Am or Can-Am, short sprint races. Obviously the manufacturers are a bit limited, but the variety is nice and they're already dicussing opening it further. It mixes the elements of sports car racing and F1 that I enjoy.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by The359

I love it. There's space in the world for two types of sports car racing. It's almost the closest thing to a modern Trans-Am or Can-Am, short sprint races. Obviously the manufacturers are a bit limited, but the variety is nice and they're already dicussing opening it further. It mixes the elements of sports car racing and F1 that I enjoy.

Well it seems Europe is a bit subdued when it comes to sponsorship. The Mad Croc wrap is some of the wildest graphics I have seen on a GT in a while.

They tend to keep livery simple and easy. I like the Blancpain Watch Graphics on the side of the Lambos as well. Since its a world wide series, if they get some foothold in America, we could possibly see UPS (anything to get off that looser #6 Roush Car) or DHL or Fed-Ex. We can see more consumer product sponsorship and less technology or automotive related sponsorship. Don't get me wrong I don't want to turn it into the clown cars we have in NASCAR, but the series could use some color.

[Purist]

And I suppose Oliver Gavin (driving for Mad Croc), Karl Wendlinger (driving for Sumo Power), and Richard Westbrook (driving for Matech) are crap drivers? Not to mention Ricardo Zonta, Jamie Campbell-Walter, Darren Turner, Tomas Enge, Peter Dumbreck, Stefan Mucke, and Peter Kox?

You guys didn't complain about the drivers or teams before, and they haven't really changed that much, so what's the deal now?

You can't distinguish a Lamborghini Murcielago from a Ford GT1? You really should get you eyes checked.

The problem is, even though the GT3s and GT2s have good competition, so do the GT1s. So, to be a proper top class, those other categories NEED to have something more, and in terms of the cars themselves, for me, they don't.

I've already said that the GT2 Vette doesn't stack up against the GT1 for me. The Doran Ford GT2 looks like it was left in the press for too long. It's too squished, so you can't appreciate the sculpting of the shape nearly as much as you can on the Matech GT1. I don't find the Gallardo as attractive as the Murcielago, in either road or race trim, and the bigger car has the V12 to boot. The Maserati, especially if it had the full, rear wing, is just a stunning piece of work. I don't care if some say it's really more a prototype than GT, and I'll take it any day over the F430 or F458. The Aston Martin V8 Vantage GT2 is just too blunt and tame compared to the DBR9, and it's bigger brother, again, has the V12 to cap it all off. Even the Nissan GT-R, though ungainly compared to the others, I find acceptable. I think the SRT cars look the equals of, and in most cases better than, the Audi R8 LMSs. As for which sports car I most like that has that more blunt shape, I'd like to see a Gumpert Apollo if I had my druthers.

As for the "age" argument, come up with something "better". I've already spelled it out. I don't find GT2s and GT3s to be adequate "replacements" for these GT1s, regardless of how old they are now.

Just to humor you guys, here's an idea of cars I would willingly accept for the next generation of GT1s.
1. Ferrari 599 (GTO)
2. Gumpert Apollo
3. Porsche 911 Turbo GT1
4. Pagani Zonda
5. Koenigsegg Agera
6. Veritas RS-III
7. Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG
8. Wiesmann GT
9. Noble M600
10. Dodge Viper SRT-10
11. Mosler MT900 GTR
12. Aston Martin DBS

The current Lambo and Vette are up-to-date, since the Vette is the C6 Z06, and there is no C7 yet. The Reiter cars are based on the latest Murcielago LP670. I resisted the urge to put the Morgan AeroMax on the list. I'm sure there could be others I'm not keenly aware of, but this seems a good start. And most of the above are not $400k+ road cars, so that helps with the practical matters.

[AndrewF31]

I watched Adu Dhabi and a bit of other races on their website and the racing is close and interesting, the drivers aren't as 2nd rate as others have said here (most of the ones Purist has mentioned have been top-notch racers in GT1, GT2 and even Protos at some point).

However, the racing is too "manufactured" for my tasting. Sports cars cannot be equalized without stripping them down. Each of these GTs are built a different way and are stronger in some areas then others. In order to make sure that they were always pretty close to each other, the Rat took away a lot of the features that make each car unique, and that's one of the reasons why I can't like this.
You look at the Spa 24 hours this weekend, and you see how far back the Porsche's were at the beginning. Porsche is nowadays not the speedster. Yet they've become more reliable, fuel efficient and they are normally there when others fall. BMW and Ferrari are sprinters, as is Audi to a certain extent, and if their car doesn't blow up, they could win.
That's sports car racing for me, not manufactured 1 hour sprint races where, despite having different bodies, all cars seem to be racing the same.

[Aysedasi]

I can't believe we're seriously hailing Hindy as the be-all and end-all of sportscar racing as we know it......


And in the same thread we disparage GT1 because Allan McNish - the F1 reject isn't driving it in..... Good stuff!

I'm not passing much comment as I'm unashamedly a prototype man, the GTs are generally the sideshow for me (for me that is, I emphasise I'm entitled to my opinion....).

Entertaining discussion though.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Acid09

drivers are second-grade at best

There are far too many amateurs in the series, yes, but I would hardly call drivers like Oliver Gavin, Richard Westbrook and Cristophe Bouchut "second grade at best"...

And despite what I kinda said, Hindhaugh is one of the best commentators ever.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Chiana

And despite what I kinda said, Hindhaugh is one of the best commentators ever.

Agreed. But he's a commentator - an opinionated commentator - but then we enjoy his commentary for that. But John's views aren't the last word in sportscar racing - and I'm sure he would accept that......

[Speed-King]

On a scale from 1-10, I'd give it an 8.

It turned out better than I actually expected and now it seems that they've finally got a grip on the BoP-issues, so I am quite happy. The races have been mostly quite entertaining so far, and in the end that's pretty much all that counts...

Oh and to th guy who said that he can't relate to any of the teams has a hard time to find someone too root for: Rooting against Vitaphone works perfectly well for me...

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I can't believe we're seriously hailing Hindy as the be-all and end-all of sportscar racing as we know it......


And in the same thread we disparage GT1 because Allan McNish - the F1 reject isn't driving it in..... Good stuff!

I'm not passing much comment as I'm unashamedly a prototype man, the GTs are generally the sideshow for me (for me that is, I emphasise I'm entitled to my opinion....).

Entertaining discussion though.

I know, I'll be doing an end of season review so that should be fun.

[I Rosputnik]

I think the issues the series is going to have car wise, is the Corvette and the MC12.

What do you replace them with? A modified GT2 vette and a hyper-modified Gran Turismo?

Thats the one thing I don't get.

[The359]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

I think the issues the series is going to have car wise, is the Corvette and the MC12.

What do you replace them with? A modified GT2 vette and a hyper-modified Gran Turismo?

Thats the one thing I don't get.

What would need to be "hyper-modified" about a Gran Turismo? It's pretty similar to the DBR9 and GT-R already in the series. Just turn it into a racing car.

[I Rosputnik]

Scratch that, I've just found out the GT is larger then a DB9.

[MJ_N_09]

I try not to get involved in heated discussions, but I feel that something needs to be addressed.

Personally, I'm starting to think that the bashing for GT1 is getting ridiculous. The prime reason is for the dismissive and downright mocking attitude of the drivers who are in the FIA GT1. What I'm hearing is that the teams and drivers who take part in the series are novices or small-time just because they either do not run a prototype or a GT2 car OR race in the LMS/other enduro series. Seriously, guys? I could make an argument that McNish, Bordais, and Davidson are in prototypes now because they weren't good enough in F1. I'm just saying.

Yes, I am a huge GT2 performance class fan (don't care much for prototypes). Yes, I may not agree with the performance balancing of the SRO and some of their rules, but I think it is ridiculous that people are starting to bash teams like PekaRacing, Vitaphone, Matech, DKR, Nismo, Reiter, and Young Driver AMR to try to get their points across.

Many of these teams have accomplished a lot, and the people associated with these teams would be insulted by what people here are saying about them.

Yes, I had to say something.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

I try not to get involved in heated discussions, but I feel that something needs to be addressed.

Personally, I'm starting to think that the bashing for GT1 is getting ridiculous. The prime reason is for the dismissive and downright mocking attitude of the drivers who are in the FIA GT1. What I'm hearing is that the teams and drivers who take part in the series are novices or small-time just because they either do not run a prototype or a GT2 car OR race in the LMS/other enduro series. Seriously, guys? I could make an argument that McNish, Bordais, and Davidson are in prototypes now because they weren't good enough in F1. I'm just saying.

Yes, I am a huge GT2 performance class fan (don't care much for prototypes). Yes, I may not agree with the performance balancing of the SRO and some of their rules, but I think it is ridiculous that people are starting to bash teams like PekaRacing, Vitaphone, Matech, DKR, Nismo, Reiter, and Young Driver AMR to try to get their points across.

Many of these teams have accomplished a lot, and the people associated with these teams would be insulted by what people here are saying about them.

Yes, I had to say something.

Me thinks one should keep with the thread, posts that even mention drivers are in a SUPER minority here, as in 1 or 2 posts, and half of those being negative in nature!

This is being passed off as THE GT World Championship, and it falls far from that, IMO! Are most of these teams accomplished, yes, the best in the WORLD, not so much. Is the product the absolute best it could be, NO. And that is not even getting to the Rat!
Should these teams feel insulted, no, the truth is the truth! Would you call (Speed) W.C. a World Championship, I imagine not. Although you would probably consider it good racing.





L.P.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Agreed. But he's a commentator - an opinionated commentator - but then we enjoy his commentary for that. But John's views aren't the last word in sportscar racing - and I'm sure he would accept that......

The last word? No, but the most powerful word? Maybe?

Last I saw those that have followed Sports Cars since the 60's do not have their own show, do not provide opinion columns in mass market publications.

Not to claim I know what goes on in Europe, but there's a program called Motorsport Weekend, correct? They run down all what's happen over the weekend. Now is that reporting only or opinions too? I haven't watch it, maybe I should, they do a review or preview of the ALMS every season.

Autosport's headlines are dominated by F1 and not much else. In fact while waiting for a plane in Sweden, I went to the local news/magazine stand. Now expecting the dominating magazines about British and German cars, the motorsport magazines (in English) or on the cover had F1 this and F1 that. Maybe some coverage of Le Mans but that's about it.

Speed Freaks hardly talks about the ALMS and since they are in Southern California, they go to the Long Beach GP but mainly cover Indy Car. Their shows are dominated by NHRA (their roots), NASCAR and Indy Car coverage and commentary.

Wind Tunnel is basically "The Not Quite" NASCAR Talk Show. Though its arguable that Indy Car's woeful decision about 2012 and Helio's kiniption dominated the news cycle away from NASCAR, he got more comments about Carl Edward's fines on his Facebook page than anything else. The Sports Car fans that watch it, have given up largely on egging Dave to talk about it, he won't.

So before you say Hindy isn't the last word, he got Randy Bernard on his show, did anybody else besides any local Indianapolis based shows or Indy Car's own radio show?

The ALMS trust him to do the play-by-play for streaming video, name another series that does that.

So I'll say it again, Hindy's comments don't happen in a vacuum, somebody is listening and its more than the 2,000 or so that have joined his Facebook collective.

[FIRE]

7.5/10 (I have seen 5 or 6 races)

[NaBUru38]

I agree that two 60min races weekend format isn't the best. If a 120min race won't work, then I suggest a 40min race on Saturday and an 80-90min race on Sunday. Each weekend should have one winer, and that is the feature race winner on Sunday. Argentine series do that: they have from two to four races in a weekend, but the feature race winner gets to the Monday magazine covers.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

The last word? No, but the most powerful word? Maybe?......

.....So I'll say it again, Hindy's comments don't happen in a vacuum, somebody is listening and its more than the 2,000 or so that have joined his Facebook collective.

I hear your opinion, and I accept that plenty of people are listening but I don't agree. If what you say is true, that a 'commentator' is able to wield the kind of power you describe, just maybe we should be concerned about that....

I've nothing against JH at all - far from it - but I often find myself disagreeing with him just as I may disagree with you or any other poster here or anyone in life who poses a contrary view to my own.

Hindy's a member here although he hasn't posted here for a long time. Perhaps someone should suggest he come on here and give us the benefit of his wisdom on the subject.......

Time to get back on topic methinks.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I agree that two 60min races weekend format isn't the best. If a 120min race won't work, then I suggest a 40min race on Saturday and an 80-90min race on Sunday. Each weekend should have one winer, and that is the feature race winner on Sunday. Argentine series do that: they have from two to four races in a weekend, but the feature race winner gets to the Monday magazine covers.

I agree with this, but maybe 1 hour sprint race and then a 2 hour feature race?

***

While the internet coverage has been good, I think one of the greatest weaknesses of the series is lack of live TV coverage. Ratel can't put down the series by simply saying the BBC is out of reach. Why not try ITV? The loss of F1 might give Ratel an option.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

I agree with this, but maybe 1 hour sprint race and then a 2 hour feature race?

***

While the internet coverage has been good, I think one of the greatest weaknesses of the series is lack of live TV coverage. Ratel can't put down the series by simply saying the BBC is out of reach. Why not try ITV? The loss of F1 might give Ratel an option.

You can't get Bloomberg or ESPN in Britain?

I watched a portion of the GT1 was on Bloomberg.com *it was on the European Feed

I assume if you have Sky, then you have access to ESPN and Motors TV.

Both channels have internetional reach which ITV doesn't have. I still have watched the BTCC for the past 4 years, but that doesn't mean I'm watching it Live on ITV, I can't.

[rich07]

Its a shame that in Oz this is on cable, last year FIA was on free to air (ONE HD) but the internet coverage has kinda made up for it, rather be watching it on my telly though.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by rich07

Its a shame that in Oz this is on cable, last year FIA was on free to air (ONE HD) but the internet coverage has kinda made up for it, rather be watching it on my telly though.

One Phase - Windows Media Center

I will say that I have to physically go to the web site and then enlarge it to full screen.

But I have a 24" monitor that doubles as my TV.

If you have a less than 3 year old LCD or Plasma you can connect your laptop or build a media pc for about $300 powered by a Linux (or Net-top with Windows) build or $400 using Windows Media Center 7.

The only racing I can watch in America is ALMS, Indy Car and NASCAR. V8 Supercars is now a week delayed on Speed (likely because of Marcos Ambrose) but I watch it with the time difference to AUS in a few hours after it airs and I'm sure you know HOW I do that.

[NightStalk3r]

I have my PC hooked up to my 32" HDTV, and thankfully the streams provided for GT1, GT2 and GT3 are of a good enough quality to make them fullscreen without ending up with a poor picture quality, this unfortunately is about the only thing i have enjoyed about the series so far.