[WEC] Rebellion Racing

[TF110]

Surely you don't build something until its ordered. The most you'll see is a wind tunnel model unless a constructor decides to go it their own. But thats not looking likely.

[Maelochs]

I agree TF110. But it is almost November and if all those constructors don't have orders yet, they aren't likely to get them for 2014. None of the constructors can afford to go ahead on their own and none have partners so none have a hope of getting a car on the grid (IMO.)

I hope more teams will consider P1 privateer P1 if it turns out that Rebellion can at least keep the factories in sight. Maybe we will see a couple new chassis/engines in 2015.

I think we have all seen a lot of proposed new prototypes every year, and just about none make it.

If ACO gets the balance right both among types of power plants and between factories and privateers, both WEC and P1 privateers (P1 non-H) could both be very healthy for years to come, and some of these proposed chassis miught actually get built.

If ACO/FIA cave in to one or all the factories, then WEC will last until a couple factories feel like they've had enough and the series will crash like all those which preceded it.

[Christian Mogami]

Their plan now is the car will be ready to test by mid March 2014.

And that if there is no problems in the project and if they make that date,it might still not be ready to race the first WEC race or two.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

As far as I know, the only Actual 2014 P1 cars belong to Porsche, while Audi and Toyota have almost finished theirs. Everyone else's are vaporware, often with vaporware power plants.

Depending on how the 2012 cars are treated, a pair of race-ready Rebellions might be the best privateer options by far. People depending on potential cars might end up having to skip the opening Silverstone round and doing basic break-in at Spa.

It's great that so many constructors are "planning" engines and chassis, but which, aside from Oreca/Rebellion, are fully funded and likely to be realized?

Considering it is already nearly November, I'd say the constructors still looking for partners and customers (funding) are probably not going to produce much this season.

In me point of view the ACO should give more rules benefits to private to attract more P1. The privateers LMP1 must be in 800 Kg or 775 kg, to have a chance at competing for overall victories, at least in some WEC circuits with more curves than Le Mans.

[TF110]

They would be serious fast at 800kg with ~600hp. Probably faster than some sub Formula 1 open wheel car series.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

In me point of view the ACO should give more rules benefits to private to attract more P1. The privateers LMP1 must be in 800 Kg or 775 kg, to have a chance at competing for overall victories, at least in some WEC circuits with more curves than Le Mans.

Easy to just throw some numbers. ACO have probably made some calculations too and it's not only about the -20 kg weight benefit (http://i.imgur.com/Npj49pS.png).

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by TF110

They would be serious fast at 800kg with ~600hp. Probably faster than some sub Formula 1 open wheel car series.

This is real but I think that Toyota, Audi and Porsche will be more rapid with the hybrid and Integral traction and of course a big budget.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by deggis

Easy to just throw some numbers. ACO have probably made some calculations too and it's not only about the -20 kg weight benefit (http://i.imgur.com/Npj49pS.png).

Surely the calculations are correct but can not attract any P1 more. Only Rebellion. This is not fine!!!!!

[Mr Pink]

Well obviously they haven't got it completely wrong in that regard since so many constructors are interested, what's lacking is a team with funding.

It's a bit of a chicken or egg situation where teams don't want to buy a car that they have no idea about how it will actually perform and consturctors don't want to build one before they know someone will buy it, this is the real issue in my mind.

What I'm hoping for is WR or someone els, like Dome, builds a car and runs it themselves. Rebellion vs. WR vs. Dome for privateer honour would be mega!

[Maelochs]

I;d say they Do have it wrong, else more Teams would want to participate.

Constructors building cars are basically businesses hoping to sell cars; results don't matter so much if they can sell a few chassis and spares.

Teams are businesses which generally need results to keep getting sponsorship, and if the teams don't think they will ever be anything but an afterthought---in other words, if they think the playing field is tilted against them---they will either pick another class, another series, or another business.

If the rules were really level between P1(H) and P1, I suspect we'd see more teams trying out P1. As it stands, no one but Rebellion is interested in finishing tenth for their tens of-millions-of-dollars investment.

Nothing can overcome the cubic-dollar effect of a huge team of engineers constantly creating upgrades, but I doubt the best P1 has a chance even against an unsorted P1(H) just because of potential AWD and extra torque out of the corners. I don't see Rebellion ever seeing a podium unless the entire teams of Porsche, Toyota, and Audi pile up at the start or something.

I don't think teams haven't been considering P1 because there weren't enough chassis available. I think teams haven't been considering P1 because they aren't any Competitive chassis available.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by deggis

Easy to just throw some numbers. ACO have probably made some calculations too and it's not only about the -20 kg weight benefit (http://i.imgur.com/Npj49pS.png).

After a quick glance at the table I can see that the lack of hybrid power may be compensated by more petrol/diesel power (owing to higher fuel flow), yet that means lower mileage, as tank capacity is identical.

IMO even with higher fuel flow the privateers will struggle to match the power and efficiency of works ICEs, that's even before we factor in the hybrid part of the drivetrain.

[TF110]

Lighter weight supposedly helps the fuel economy, but this year theTS030 Toyota (920kg) with the same size tank goes about as far as the Lola Rebellion Toyota (900kg). Next year its still a 20kg difference. Don't see it being much different than now. Probably more towards the hybrids.

[Rodger Davies]

Give too many breaks to privateers though and a manufacturer will just make their cars to those regulations instead. Parity in the rules is fine, but no point in helping out the little(r) guys or you end up with an RS Spyder situation. Although that was fun whilst it lasted...!

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Give too many breaks to privateers though and a manufacturer will just make their cars to those regulations instead. Parity in the rules is fine, but no point in helping out the little(r) guys or you end up with an RS Spyder situation. Although that was fun whilst it lasted...!

Manufacturers or factory teams have to use hybrids in the new regulations.

[Mal]

There is a good insight here:

http://www.oreca.fr/en/construction-...e-right-track/

It is great that they are doing it and if anyone can produce a competitive car for a privateer - it is Oreca.

[TF110]

Further confirmation at the end of a two car program for the wec. Great to read.

[Mike E]

An actual LMP1-L, with a picture to prove it.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Mike E

An actual LMP1-L, with a picture to prove it.

Looks like a mockup monocoque though.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by deggis

Looks like a mockup monocoque though.

Still a lot more proof of existence than any other privateer LMP1 project out there. If the mock-up is detailed enough to get the drivers in for seat fitting, then the design can't be too far off being ready.

[Pontlieue]

A small update on the progress of Rebellions 2014 plans:
http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/...-13121101.html

Short summary:

-Only confirmed driver so far is Nicolas Prost, but Beche and Heidfeld are likely to continue.

-The first R-One is planned to be ready for a private test before taking part in the official pre-season test at Le Castellet

-The second R-One should be ready for Silverstone

[FstrthnU]

http://sportscar365.com/wec/rebellio...ebut-in-march/
Final design of R-One will be different from original drawings
Crash testing scheduled for next month
Nick Heidfeld, Mathias Beche, Andrea Belicchi likely to return as drivers

[gwyllion]

The DSC interview with Dan Walmsley of Strakka reveals something about the 2013 Rebellion Lola Toyota that has not been mentioned before:

We know that the Rebellion Lola Toyota package got some Multimatic aero tweaks which we obviously believe brought them some real performance improvements, but the most important change that we think they made was a move to fly by wire direct injection engine, that is what we believe gave them their most significant step forward relative to our pace. It gave them the ability to attack the corners and downchange a lot quicker, better throttle response and an ability to play with the power signature of the car.

source: https://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=20030

[Mal]

Rebellion just posted this:

[Pontlieue]

I think that's just the render from last June.

[Simmi]

I was also trying to work out if there was anything different on there.

What they did also re-confirm is that they should have two cars at Silverstone.