Pollock's merit?

[Jordi]

As you know, Craig Pollock didn't do a superjob as BAR principal, but I think we can all say he did three crucial decisions:

1. Sign Jacques Villeneuve. Would BAR exist if Villeneuve hadn't been on board? Also, Jacques helped the team and scored most of its points the first four years.

2. Get Honda back. Manufacturer backing and super powerful engine.

3. Sign Geoff Willis. As far as I know, he signed him before being shown the door. And I think he's designed a very nice clean car which is paying dividends.

[Arneal]

I agree that CP deserves credit for vision and salesmanship. His signing up Honda and Willis is paying off big time now, but I don't think BAR would be this good if he had stayed. CP is similiar to a technical guy that starts a company and succeeds in making it a power in a new field. There gets to be a point where you have to get rid of the founder and bring in a manager that knows what he is doing. Creating something new requires one set of skills and properly running a large organization requires a different set of skills. Few people have both talents. DR was necessary for BARs current success, but CP deserves credit for what he did too.

[Snrub]

I think Pollock did a pretty respectible job the first couple of years. They had ridiculous reliability problems at first, but they also had fairly decent pace.

I think what he did best was put together a BIG team that wasn't initially affiliated with a manufacturer.

[Kicking-back]

Agreed.

He was the right man to set it up - but David Richards is the right man to take it forward.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Kicking-back


He was the right man to set it up - but David Richards is the right man to take it forward.

I think this would be a fair assessment of the previous and current drivers too

[climb]

Best Pollock's move?
Quitting.

Other things he did are quite appreciable indeed, but it's not that extraordinary that a team boss collect engine manufacturer, techincal staff etc. : what else was he expect to do?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing him; I just think that his work was deeply affected by his conflict of interest, being at the same time JV's manager.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think Craig did as much as he could with the team. He lacked topline racing experience, and didn't seem to be able to gel the team, or sign the right drivers (conflict of interest did indeed have a big effect on that). Without Dave Ricahrds their 2002 would've still been terrible, adn whose to say they'd've improved at anything like the same rate?

Dave Richards has to stand as one of the greastest team bosses, considering the progress BAR have made in just 2 years. Every move he's made has been spot on. I'm not sure about when Willis joined - I think that was Craig though.

[RWC]

CP did some things well and most things badly.
Signing JV no matter what the cost was the stupidest thing he ever did.It totally crippled bar's finances for years

The other dumb thing he did was not hiring whoever it took to design a great car (or spend enough on it)..but that all comes from the first dumb mistake.

[Jordi]

I don't think Jacques' signing compromised the design of the car or any other financial resources. BAR had s***loads of money anyway, and Reynard showed it could not design a current F1 car.

Conflict of interest? Sure. But would BAR have started if Jacques hadn't been signed and Pollock was at the helm? I mean, without Craig being Jacques' manager, probably Jacques wouldn't have gone to BAR and without Jacques maybe BAT wouldn't have spent any money (don't know any facts, but is this far off reality?)

Maybe Pollock's best move was surviving 1999. And not only surviving 1999, but getting to 5th in 2000. In that, Honda and Jacques were crucial.

What is strange is that with the resources it had, it took so much for it to took off. From 2000, the team should have been where it is now in 2001, but it stood still.

[golem]

Yeah, but the Honda's in 2001 grenaded a bit didn't they? I know 2002 was just a mess for them. They bucked up in 2003 and this year looks like being a bit better.

Anyway, if I was going to form a team I think I could do much worse than to get Pollock to be a $ chaser and dealer for BAR working for Richards. He obviously had the knowledge to make contacts and contracts and that's pretty important. But I wouldn't let him run the team, hell no. I'd get someone with more racing experiance, preferrably with good technical knowledge.

[Bononi]

Originally posted by climb
Best Pollock's move?
Quitting.

That's his greatest merit.

[corkholio]

Pollock's problem wasn't getting people to join BAR. His problem was that he had absolutely no clue in how to put them to good use.

[Fondmetal]

does craig and villeneuve still own shares in the company?

[Jordi]

I don't know about Craig, I doubt Jacques ever owned some, despite the legend.

[Snrub]

BAR had lots of money. Lots of other teams had less money. I don't see any co-relation between JV's salary and the team's lack of success. It simply doesn't make sense.

As for Reynard not being able to design a modern F1 car, they had some pretty respectible qualifying runs for a first year team in 1999.

[freud]

Jordi, well I would say that JV was the motivating factor which lead to BAR. But, imho, along the way, Pollock systematically destroyed the career of JV. And for what price.. a few million dollars?

JV must be kicking himself for blindly following Pollock, leaving williams and rejecting Ron Dennis when he was willing (before he signed Kimi).

[hamsmith]

Pollock May of started the BAR team who are producing great results right now but on the flip side Villeneuve would proberbly still be in a top team right now and not skiing, he would proberbly have another WDC if he was in a McLaren or Williams last year, he would proberly be a little less arrogant if Craig hadn't made him believe he was worth so much money and his worth was more important than potential results (Willi Weber take note), unless someone else bought Tyrell we would have three car teams meaning more competitive racing up front(but sadly an all red podium) and Jordan would Proberbly be supplied by Honda and be a little less of a joke.
I think the fact that Craig was team boss and jacques manager proberbly killed Jacques career. Flavio Briotore said in an interview in December that he had approched Jacques about driving for Renault/Benneton about three years ago and felt awkward because Craig held the two roles. shoul think thats why he likes the same situation at renault.

I remember Jacques being slagged off by his good friend Eddie Irvine (F1 mag) because he refused to put money into the team to help it move forward so i don't think he has any financial involvement.

[climb]

I repeat that CP's copnflict of interest was crucial in spoiling BAR's destiny.
Infact his main aim has always been (as any other manager in the world BTW) that of maximising his protegee' revenue, cos normally manager are payed on that basis.
He had way more to gain from that than from BAR improvements, a factor that doomed his management of the outfit.
If there wasn't such an involkvement, CP would/could/should have fired JV earlier, considering his low performance/salary rate.

[climb]

Briatore's role is a bit different since he manages many drivers even oputside his team, thus he won't retain, for instance, Trulli even against an unfavourable evidence, cos he knows he can replace him with another one.
On the contrary CP had, from what I know, onle one client.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by hamsmith
he would proberbly have another WDC if he was in a McLaren or Williams last year,

I doubt he would have beaten Raikkonen or Montoya, to be honest.

[BootsOntheSide]

If Jacques had stayed at Williams for 1999 his career would've gone ina completely different direction, and so would those of many other dirvers. Ralf wouldn't've got the Williams drive (Zanardi was the first choice), and maybe he'd've got it later at the expense of Button or Montoya, The circumstances are all very complicated really.

Three car teams may have occurred by now due to there not being enough teams to fill the grid otehrwise, as ham very perceptively mentions.

As for Jacques though, his confidence would've been much different if he'd've been running at or near the front in recent years. He may have been able to put up a championship challenge, but it's very difficult to say.

[hamsmith]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
I doubt he would have beaten Raikkonen or Montoya, to be honest.

What makes you think that. Jacques could challenge MS and Kimi and Montaya only manage to challenge him on a good day or more to the point when MS is having a bad day. just look at last yeat.

btw can people stop calling me ham. it's starting to bug me now.

[Super Tourer]

Back to topic.....let's not make this into another JV thread please....

Pollock - it was all about limitations, knowing them and reaching them. Craig was excellent at cutting deals for JV and generally deal broking, he convinced BAT to bank roll the team, he got Honda on board despite it being an unknown quantity.

However running what is a team, business and mass employer rolled into one requires different skills. Finacially money poured through the teams fingers and BAT had to guarantee the borrowings.

In terms of shareholdings, my understanding is that BAT have converted all their loans into shares and now own in excess of 95% of the team and will own it more or less entirely by the time it is sold in 2006.

With DR the team has a motorsport professional who has won world rally championships, the BTCC, etc all at the helm of a big motorsport business (Prodrive).

I think Pollock was enthusiastic, saw it as a great opportunity for both him amd JV and in many ways a lot of the ingredients looked right on paper, his lack of any team managerial (as far as I know) experience, let alone F1 experience told in the end IMO.

[DSM]

Originally posted by hamsmith
Pollock May of started the BAR team who are producing great results right now but on the flip side Villeneuve would proberbly still be in a top team right now and not skiing, he would proberbly have another WDC if he was in a McLaren or Williams last year, he would proberly be a little less arrogant if Craig hadn't made him believe he was worth so much money and his worth was more important than potential results (Willi Weber take note), unless someone else bought Tyrell we would have three car teams meaning more competitive racing up front(but sadly an all red podium) and Jordan would Proberbly be supplied by Honda and be a little less of a joke.
I think the fact that Craig was team boss and jacques manager proberbly killed Jacques career. Flavio Briotore said in an interview in December that he had approched Jacques about driving for Renault/Benneton about three years ago and felt awkward because Craig held the two roles. shoul think thats why he likes the same situation at renault.

I remember Jacques being slagged off by his good friend Eddie Irvine (F1 mag) because he refused to put money into the team to help it move forward so i don't think he has any financial involvement.

Hamsmith! It's PROBABLY!!!