2010 Sports Racer (Supersports) Series - Clipsal 500 11-14 March 2010

[Tony C]

I think it looks like a fun category, hopefully it will ecourage some young guns to have a go.

I wonder though if the regs are being 'updated' why do they still go for flat bottoms? most other categories are going for stepped tunnels to allow closer racing and better balance.

Anyone got ideas? I would love to see a category that isnt relying on earo grip.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Tony C

I think it looks like a fun category, hopefully it will ecourage some young guns to have a go.

I wonder though if the regs are being 'updated' why do they still go for flat bottoms? most other categories are going for stepped tunnels to allow closer racing and better balance.

Anyone got ideas? I would love to see a category that isnt relying on earo grip.

Thanks for your support.

Young guns, old guns and hopefully all that fall in between will be able to have a go.

Good news is the 2010 Sports Racer Sporting Regs were approved by CAMS yesterday (1st Feb). Here is a link to them.

http://sportsracer.com.au/index.php/...ng-regulations

With regards to the regs, I think "adapted" rather than "updated" is the best description.

They contemplate a broad cross section of cars that are available here and now, that are also fairly closely matched in performance.

[welsor]

For anyone who hasn't checked out these new rules yet. Their are some major difference to the draft ones we saw back in November.
The one that has the most affect for us is changing the floor rules from the 2C requirement of a flat area 800 by 1000 to a flat area from side to side of the car.
The response we got from one of the organisers about this is that they do not want to allow the new prosport car to run as they believe it will be too quick.
This car has a legal 2C floor but incorporates tunnels down each side.
They would also need to add at least 40 kilos of lead and lower the revlimit by 500 rpm.
Everyone had better be very careful where there rear diffusers start as this rule will affect a lot of these as well.
Dave

[Crash Test]

Haha... sports car classes are awesome!

Has the Chiron been legislated against yet?

[welsor]

Only by weight and a parity adjustment sheet that the organisers can change at any time.

[Crash Test]

That sounds reasonable!

Should it just be a single make class for Wests? Why would you bother with anything else if it isn't allowed to be too quick?

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by welsor

The response we got from one of the organisers about this is that they do not want to allow the new prosport car to run as they believe it will be too quick.
Dave

Dave,

I'm not sure that was quite the reply Grant would have received this afternoon.

The point made was that there is no use having one particular vehicle that is significantly quicker than the whole field. For the racing to be appealing to spectators and entrants alike, there needs to be some parity.

For the consiracy theorists out there, please be assured that there is no agenda to rule out any particular make or model (Chiron included Crash Test), nor is there an agenda against the fine state of Queensland or its inhabitants.

The timing of the release of the sporting regulations is not the best, I concur, and the apology for this has been expressed to your team Dave, however it is outside the organiser's control. The final sporting regs were approved by CAMS literally four days ago. As a new category, considerable consultation and review was required which perhaps dragged the process out longer than desired.

The rules are the rules, and everyone is welcome to come if they comply.

If you wish to discuss this further, by all means give me another call.

Regards

Ed

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

That sounds reasonable!

Should it just be a single make class for Wests? Why would you bother with anything else if it isn't allowed to be too quick?

Crash Test,

That wouldn't work - there is only about a dozen Wests in the country. Not enough for a single make series.

In addition however, there are about two dozen Radical SR3s and I'm guessing half a dozen Minettis, and three ADRs that I know of.

Thats a total of 45 vehicles before I count the Linkspeed, Speed, earlier Prosports etc.

These cars have very similar capabilities, and can lap within about a second of eachother.

On the other hand, there is one team with a one-off car who are struggling to come to terms with the sporting regulations that the 45 cars mentioned above basically comply with.

If you were setting up a new racing series for sports cars in Australia, with the aim to give owners and spectators alike a spectacle of close and exciting racing with the numbers I have outlined above, how would you approach it?

Regards

Ed

[Crash Test]

Question- so what's the parity benchmark going to be?

It seems a lot like the AGT allowing in the Mosler, but immediately making it tow a caravan around. I fear that if you have things as fast as a Chiron (or equivalent) it will be very hard to safely reign them in on the run. No matter what, someone will be left with a sour taste in their mouth, if the quick cars get nobled or not.

Trust me, I love this sort of racing, and I think it's brilliant that it's going to be exposed to the masses. And it's not Queensland sour grapes, it goes for anyone who has a combination together that is quick, as they are seemingly setting themselves up for a dive.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

Question- so what's the parity benchmark going to be?

It seems a lot like the AGT allowing in the Mosler, but immediately making it tow a caravan around. I fear that if you have things as fast as a Chiron (or equivalent) it will be very hard to safely reign them in on the run. No matter what, someone will be left with a sour taste in their mouth, if the quick cars get nobled or not.

Trust me, I love this sort of racing, and I think it's brilliant that it's going to be exposed to the masses. And it's not Queensland sour grapes, it goes for anyone who has a combination together that is quick, as they are seemingly setting themselves up for a dive.

Here is the extract from the regs that shall hopefully explain the parity system

PERFORMANCE PARITY

S16.1 Performance Adjustment Sheet (PAS) – See Appendix 1
(a) A PAS will be maintained for all automobiles competing in the Series.
(b) The PAS details the current value of the parameter/s that may be adjusted on the basis of maintaining parity between the various makes/model.
(c) Any updates of the PAS will be advised to all Competitors and will take effect as detailed on the PAS.
(d) Each automobile must comply with all provisions of the current PAS at all times during a meeting.


S16.2 Performance Adjustments
(a) CAMS reserves the right to amend the PAS at any time during the Series to maintain parity between the makes/models competing in the Series.


Regarding the Chiron, here is a lap time comparison for you to consider:

Chiron, Oran Park GP, November 2008: 1.08.7244

Radical SR3, Oran Park GP November 2009 1.08.5852

West WR100, Oran Park GP November 2009 1.08.0966

I raced at both meets, conditions were similar. Unfortunatly I do not have a direct comparison of the 3 cars racing at the same meet. At least not until mid March 2010 (Clipsal!).

The point I am making is that the three cars have very similar lap times, and concerns about the Chiron being "nobled" are perhaps unfounded.

I hope this assists.

[scuderus]

Originally Posted by welsor

They would also need to add at least 40 kilos of lead and lower the revlimit by 500 rpm.
Dave

Hi Dave

Im curious to know what logbook and engine the prosport is intending to have.

If it is going to be 2C (with a limit of 1100cc) the RPM limit is actually increased from 11000rpm (2C) to 12500rpm (Sportsracer).

scotty

[scuderus]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

Haha... sports car classes are awesome!

Has the Chiron been legislated against yet?

Looking at the regulations (and guessing Steves weight) I dont believe that the Chiron will be required to carry any extra weight or reduced rev limit at Clipsal, compared to how it has been run in QLD.


scotty

[Crash Test]

Just going off Morgan Park last November (a 2.1km lap)-

Morcombe- 59.6625
Fricker- 1:01.9879

And going back to QR (a track fairly similar to Adelaide) in 2007-

Chiron- 1:12.43
Best of the Wests- 1:13.3

Will be interesting!

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

Just going off Morgan Park last November (a 2.1km lap)-

Morcombe- 59.6625
Fricker- 1:01.9879

And going back to QR (a track fairly similar to Adelaide) in 2007-

Chiron- 1:12.43
Best of the Wests- 1:13.3

Will be interesting!

Fricker did the November meeting I missed? Not too shabby, I'm struggling to remember even Grant Watson's Prosport breaking out of 63's previously. To get within three seconds of Steve is pretty impressive.

Love the cars myself too, but I've always wondered how the Morcombe/Chiron combination (it's not just car, Steve is one of the three best drivers in Qld at state level IMHO) could be put in the field without re-creating Bowe/Veskanda. Should be remembered that QR meeting the Wests came to, Morcombe set that 12.4 with a then recently dislocated shoulder. I find it disappointing that if a weight penalty is applied it would be on the assumption that it's purely the car the gets the times and that Steve's talent might not be treated fairly.

[Crash Test]

Just going back a bit- is there anything else documenting how the PAS will work, other than an ad hoc adjustment at any time?

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

Just going back a bit- is there anything else documenting how the PAS will work, other than an ad hoc adjustment at any time?

Here is a link to the sporting regs.

http://www.sportsracer.com.au/index....ng-regulations

Let me know if this answers your query.

[Crash Test]

Not really. It doesn't seem to answer if there any reasoning/criteria for a parity adjustment. Who makes the parity adjustment, and what is the trigger point for a change??

Is there a list of seeded drivers available?

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

Not really. It doesn't seem to answer if there any reasoning/criteria for a parity adjustment. Who makes the parity adjustment, and what is the trigger point for a change??

Is there a list of seeded drivers available?

My reading of the regs results in the following answers to your queries:

The reasoning for a partity adjustment is

"maintaining parity between the various makes/model."

The parity adjustments are made by CAMS

"CAMS reserves the right to amend the PAS at any time during the Series to maintain parity between the makes/models competing in the Series."

To my knowledge there are no seeded drivers entered in the Clipsal round.

(I'm still getting over the fact that no one has nominated me!)

[welsor]

On the parity adjustment sheet.
It states that CAMS makes the changes but from talking to The technical managers at CAMS the organiserof the series would submit any changes to CAMS and then they would approve them. When I asked Campbell Andrea the manager at CAMS who signed the PAS it was stated that he basically rubber stamped what the organiser asked for. Ie Greg Steer. By the way Greg Steer is a west driver and heavily involved with West Cars in Australia.
I can understand what Greg is trying to achieve with this but Am concerned it will go the way that Porsche cup went several years ago where a group a 3 people decided what weight was to be added to each car for a wide variety of reasons that where not very consistent.
A good car in one car could end up with penalty weight added to every car of the same type.

As to the prosport it was built as a 2C car but has a 1500 engine fitted and is therfore log booked as category 6. Same as the wests and radicals etc.
As to what would happen with an 1100 engine, well we still could not run the higher revlimit allowed under sports racer because if you enter an event as 2C then you must race to those rules unless the series rules are stricter. Which they are in this case. 2C has no weight limit and a flat floor of 800 x 1000.
Dave

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by welsor

On the parity adjustment sheet.
It states that CAMS makes the changes but from talking to The technical managers at CAMS the organiserof the series would submit any changes to CAMS and then they would approve them. When I asked Campbell Andrea the manager at CAMS who signed the PAS it was stated that he basically rubber stamped what the organiser asked for. Ie Greg Steer. By the way Greg Steer is a west driver and heavily involved with West Cars in Australia.
I can understand what Greg is trying to achieve with this but Am concerned it will go the way that Porsche cup went several years ago where a group a 3 people decided what weight was to be added to each car for a wide variety of reasons that where not very consistent.
A good car in one car could end up with penalty weight added to every car of the same type.

As to the prosport it was built as a 2C car but has a 1500 engine fitted and is therfore log booked as category 6. Same as the wests and radicals etc.
As to what would happen with an 1100 engine, well we still could not run the higher revlimit allowed under sports racer because if you enter an event as 2C then you must race to those rules unless the series rules are stricter. Which they are in this case. 2C has no weight limit and a flat floor of 800 x 1000.
Dave

Dave,

Greg Steer will not be the sole arbitrator of the PAS adjustments. Any adjustments to the PAS shall be recommended by a panel to CAMS for their approval.

The panel is yet to be finalised however it will most likely number seven, be representative of the class and shall be chaired by an individual who sits outside the category, ie with no vested interest in any particular make.

I hope this satisifes your concerns that Greg's involement in West will not unfairly advantage West participants.

What is important to note, is that without Greg's genuine interest in the sport, contacts and hard work, none of us (Radical, Minetti, ADR, Chiron, ASP, Prosport, Linkspeed or Speed) would have the opportunity to contemplate racing at Clipsal next month.

Regards

Ed

[Falcadore]

Was there a change in the vehicle weights?

[welsor]

Not sure I understand the question.
There has never been minimum weights for 2C so this is all new for the sports racer series.
Dave

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by welsor

Not sure I understand the question.
There has never been minimum weights for 2C so this is all new for the sports racer series.
Dave

Considering the title of the thread I would have thought that self-explanatory.

[Oldtony]

And of course the major question being asked about the class is:
Will the McLymont Sisters video clip out rate the Pink commercial?

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Considering the title of the thread I would have thought that self-explanatory.

What I meant was, has there been a weight change for the series since they regs were first announced? It's to do with a rumour I had heard and wanted it clarified.