Jordan's "customer" deal + Fisi to Toyota?

[allen_overy]

According to news on F1.on.net and itv-f1.com, Ford company has confirmed that Jordan's Ford deal was not a works deal and Jordan will be receiving engines a specification behind those used by works team Jaguar, despite what EJ has insisted before.
Ford vice-president Richard Parry-Jones: "Eddie has done a good job of clearing up the details in the last few days - it is not a works engine because our works engine is in the Jaguar." It was also quoted that Ford was fairly satisfied with the improvement of Jaguar, which snatched one point during Spa.
This could have an effect: since GF's contract states that he has an option not to exercise his contract in 2003 if Jordan does not have a works engine deal, which is exactly the present case, GF may not want to race with Jordan, considering the engine will be like that of Sauber's Petronas--a few races back. This has severe implications, given the Cosworth is not that good AND it's few races behind for the customer engines. So if GF is to stay he will expect a mediocre year yet again. The present options left is a Toyota one.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Didn't the Arrowsteam have access (if they payed the bills that is) to the exact same spec. engine as Jaguar this year?

Why leave Jordan one spec. behind. Or are they really going to supply whatever is left of Arrows in 2003 with top spec. engines?

Yes GF would have another mediocre year, but Toyota aint much butter me thinks.

[Valve Bounce]

I think that Jaguar will be getting a new Cosworth engine and the current engines will be kept for customers. However, there are no decent Works drives available so I suspect Fisi will have to stay where he is for next year at least.

[z2252314]

Why is EJ so happy then? Ok, I know Honda has a lot of work to do, but I still think a 2003 Honda will be better than a 2002 Cosworth. Why did he change?
Secondly, if your going to get year old engines, why not just get Ferrari's. Ok, Im sure they cost a bit, but if Sauber can afford them, then Eddie should be able to. That Cosworth engine is ok, but its going to get them nowhere next year.
Expect Jordan to be battling it out with the Minardi's next year.

[Stephen Green]

The reason he didn't/couldn't go for a customer Ferarri is that they wouldn't fit into the front of the DHL trucks.

Ford did say on Sunday that they were not 'works' engines but I find it hard to believe EJ would have settled for a deal one spec behind the Jaguar's. It is also worth mentioning that Fords name will appear on the Jordan cars and somehow I don't think they would want major sponsorship on a car with second rate engines?

[chrisgr31]

My understanding was that the Jordan Ford engine will start the season one spec behind the Jaguar and would be updated during the season. Might be an advantage to behind one spec behind as Jaguar can iron out any reliability problems.

It is also not a full works deal, as the engines are not free. However Jordan are not paying either as the bill is being paid for by a marketing deal betwenn Jordan and Ford Europe (I think!) and some deal whereby Jordans sponsor DHL buy Ford trucks for their fleet.

All sounds complicated to me, but for EJ it looks a better option than forcing Honda to supply engines at a huge price, and ones they don't want to supply in any event!

I don't really see what is the worry about having Ford competing against Jaguar, well not unless they both are going to have a tilt at the championship. Surely what is important that Ford beats Toyota, Honda and Renault, whilst the Jaguar beats the BMW, and Mercedes. The Ferrari being a different market!

[f1manoz]

I'll agree. EJ is a smart bugger, despite what people think, and he won't be suckered into accepting year-old Cosworth engines. He'll want and expect the best, otherwise he'd have tried his hardest to keep Honda happy.

The Ford engines probably won't be 'works' on paper, but I reckon they'll be exactly the same as the Jaguars.

Fisichella would be better off staying put as there is nowhere else for him left to go. Toyota is out of the question as they have signed an experienced driver in Ollie Panis, and are now after a young charger, and Fisichella isn't THAT young anymore......

[Sato san]

Not so sure about that.

Fisi could be tempted by a longer term deal with Toyota . Look at what Toyota have to offer , against what Ej has to offer .

I would say Toyota would e a good deal

[Super Tourer]

If I was Fizzi, I'd use the fact that they are not works engines to get a multi year deal with Toyota pronto.

Fizzi needs to get into a works seat, Toyota look very determined and are reputed to have unlimited funds available - something EJ will not have in the foreseeable future, if ever.

OK EJ's done a clever deal for engines that he physically doesn't have to write out a cheque for. But there's too much Jordan spin on it, when all is said and done they are customer engines and not one's of Ferrari level.

This means at the very least Jordans will still be behind the Ferrari's, Renaults, William's, McLaren's and probably the Saubers. For Fizzi the only way to try and get ahead of this lot is with a works seat with a fully funded factory effort. Toyota!

[Stephen Green]

I'm not so sure they will be that far back down the grid. If EJ thought that were going to be the case then I don't think he would have done the deal, nor would his major sponsors. Add to that the fact that Ford wouldn't want two teams at the back of the grid either.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
If I was Fizzi, I'd use the fact that they are not works engines to get a multi year deal with Toyota pronto.

Yep, get rid of him EJ, he's not much better than Sato. Then put Ant D in the car.

[Stephen Green]

As always you have the perfect solution

[Peter Mallett]

Well it works for me.

[billyblister]

But the funny thing is EJ said they were 'RS' engines in line with Fords new range of cars, which suggests they are new(ish) engines.
Not to sure about Toyota although they have the money but do they have the skill at present?
They were really impressive at the start of the season but then faded away. We should bear in mind they they spent a year and a half making that car, not taking any credit from them they have done a fantastic job, just being realistic

[kdr]

ej is looking down the road to when he's the ONLY ford engined car on the grid.

[andrew_powell98]

I thought one of the reasons EJ mentioned for being 1 step behind Jags engines was the fact that Jaguar would have the 'less Reliable' development engines hence EJ wants realiability.

[Stephen Green]

I don't remember EJ saying that. Wasn't it that Parry-Jones chap from Jaguar?

[NiceGuyEddie]

According to Auto Motor und Sport, a pretty big German autosportmagazine, there is a swap between Heidfeld and Fisichella on the cards.

Could make a lotta sense. Giancarlo has been the subject of Sauber-speculation earlier this year, for wanting to move close to Ferrari before it is too late. Meanwhile, Deutsche Post wouldnt mind having a german talent behind the wheel of the Jordan.

Allthough Sauber has confirmed he has an option on Heidfeld, that option is still not reported to be taken up by Sauber. And we also have the before mentioned clause in Fisi´s contract.

So there you go.

[Sato san]

I also think jordan wil be quite good next year , but Fisi's got to go with a team thats gonna give him a chance at racing at the front , and as good as Jordan may be , i dont think they will e able to match Toyota over a long period .

[kmchow]

But would or could Ferrari supply a third team with customer engines? Would Sauber try to block such a deal?

[av8rirl]

Originally posted by kmchow
But would or could Ferrari supply a third team with customer engines? Would Sauber try to block such a deal?

Where is this coming from?

If Jordan swap Fisi for Heidfeld, I think its another backwards step (but maybe not as far as sponsorship is concerned). For 2 years now, we've seen NH unable to use his obvious experience over very underqualified (only in terms of experience) rookies.

[neilap]

Well Toyota has already bought on Honda driver so I would not put a Fisi move past them. Realistically Fisi would be paid better at Toy but I doubt they will be contenders for a few more years. We all know how I feel about Toyota so I won’t get into it but I think some of their motives have little to do with racing.

[Total-F1]

As far as I know with this Ford deal, Jordan get the current 75 degree engine developed by Ford, while Cosworth upgrades to 90 degrees, develops it - if it's any good, Jordan get it in the middle of the season.

[Super Tourer]

One point we mustn't forget is that EJ has actually committed Jordan to a $40M bill over the next three years.

Bearing in mind he coughed and spluttered at costs mid-season when he had free Honda engines, what happens if DHL fall's out with either Ford or Jordan, or the 'partnership' doesn't live up to expectations - who pays for the engines then?

No doubt there will be contracts in place to contra this, but we all know what F1 contracts are worth.....nowt!

[Kenny W.]

I would have thought Toyota would rather have Sato than Fisi (for political reasons). Although he is about the only driver not mentioned in the Toyota silly season.