The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[Asa]

Maybe former Toyota F1 drivers will be considered? Mika Salo? Olivier Panis? Cristiano da Matta? Ricardo Zonta? Ralf Schumacher?

I think Panis will be very good choice, given that he is a renowned test driver. Toyota will need to do a lot of that.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Asa

I think Panis will be very good choice, given that he is a renowned test driver. Toyota will need to do a lot of that.

I thought Panis retired from driving LMPs. Either way, he wasn't very good relative to his teammates in the Oreca 908 HF.

[deggis]

I thought so too (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92349).

Seriously I don't get all these wild suggestions... just because a driver happened to drive for Toyota YEARS ago? For example da Matta, who hasn't even raced a lot recently.

[Holt]

I expect Toyota to bring two cars the first year

I also expect one car to be all Japanese, maybe the Tatsuya Kataoka/Yuji Tachikawa/Daisuke Ito combination that ran for Dome in 2008

The other car could have:

- Pedro Lamy
- Ricardo Zonta
- David Brabham
- Jacques Villeneuve
- Rinaldo Capello
- Christian Klien
- Emmanuel Collard

All have good prototype experience and good speed

Brabham - Lamy - Collard would be my choice.

[DeutschRenn]

How about Rafa Matos? He's right up there. just hasbt gotten a chance. i remember his blindingly quick stint in the Michael Shank Racing car at the daytona 24 hour 2 years ago before the car broke.

[DeutschRenn]

^ sorry not habst gotten. im mixing english and german. Its been a long tiring day haha.
Has not had

[kurski]

Originally Posted by deggis

I thought so too (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92349).

Former Toyota F1 driver Olivier Panis wanted at the factory team, but he did not have the possibility of driving the Team Oreca, so now he could carry the new Toyota team.

Originally Posted by Holt

The other car could have:

- Pedro Lamy
- Ricardo Zonta
- David Brabham
- Jacques Villeneuve
- Rinaldo Capello
- Christian Klien
- Emmanuel Collard

I think that Zonta, Klien and Lamy might be possible, but the dreams of Villeneuve Nascar-career so we exclude it from even though he has admitted that would compete with the Le Mans 24h race.

[Asa]

Originally Posted by deggis

I thought so too (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92349).

He would still make a good test driver though, even if he chooses not to race, he can help the technical team and maybe even coach the Japanese drivers team that we believe will happen.

Also his being French can help Toyota a lot when they are at Le Mans and dealing with ACO.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Asa

He would still make a good test driver though, even if he chooses not to race, he can help the technical team and maybe even coach the Japanese drivers team that we believe will happen.

Here's the full article: http://www.racer.com/panis-retires-f...rticle/205286/

When he says "but for me Le Mans is finished" and especially if he means all LMP racing, all other points become irrelevant, imho.

Also his being French can help Toyota a lot when they are at Le Mans and dealing with ACO.

Really? Shouldn't they use people who are trained to do that (translating or whatever you mean)?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Asa

He would still make a good test driver though, even if he chooses not to race, he can help the technical team and maybe even coach the Japanese drivers team that we believe will happen.

Also his being French can help Toyota a lot when they are at Le Mans and dealing with ACO.

Originally Posted by deggis

Really? Shouldn't they use people who are trained to do that (translating or whatever you mean)?

Being French would help the team in other ways besides translation if you know what I mean ...

Although being French or having French connections doesnt necessary gauruntee anything-just ask Jack Leconte!

[deggis]

Autosport (print) has interviewed Toshiaki Kinosh!ta (president of Toyota Motorsport). It says the program might be a low key affair next year with modest expectations, one car being an serious option and that obviously the goal is not to win Le Mans in 2012 but to learn. Autosport says reasons behind this are the previous failures (LM & F1) and another factor is that the program was supposed to be given a go-ahead in spring but was delayed due the earthquake.

Kinosh!ta says studies started in 2010 (direct quote) and Autosport says that "it is known" that the engine is a version of 3.4L Rebellion one. Hybrid believed to use super-capacitors. In addition to modified Dome S101 it has been tested in a purpose-built Dome complying with the regs (what regs? '10/11?).

ps. Kinosh!ta - stupid dirty word checking, replace the ! with i.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Asa

Maybe former Toyota F1 drivers will be considered? Mika Salo? Olivier Panis? Cristiano da Matta? Ricardo Zonta? Ralf Schumacher?

Ralf already has a contract with Mercedes for DTM 2012: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95534

[AGD]

Originally Posted by deggis

Autosport (print) has interviewed Toshiaki Kinosh!ta (president of Toyota Motorsport). It says the program might be a low key affair next year with modest expectations, one car being an serious option and that obviously the goal is not to win Le Mans in 2012 but to learn. Autosport says reasons behind this are the previous failures (LM & F1) and another factor is that the program was supposed to be given a go-ahead in spring but was delayed due the earthquake.

Kinosh!ta says studies started in 2010 (direct quote) and Autosport says that "it is known" that the engine is a version of 3.4L Rebellion one. Hybrid believed to use super-capacitors. In addition to modified Dome S101 it has been tested in a purpose-built Dome complying with the regs (what regs? '10/11?).

ps. Kinosh!ta - stupid dirty word checking, replace the ! with i.

Interesting stuff, but it seems like Autosport may have the same source as we do for at least some of their info: Mike's website.

I'm not sure if the stuff about the goal is learning and such is speculation or a quote from Toyota, but how much of that is the truth and how much of that is just Toyota trying to offer a built in excuse if they don't win? I guess it would be pretty obvious if they only have one car, but it is an interesting question. And if it is truly a learning season, how much may change before they actually go all out in 2013-2014 (assuming the program still exists)? And if it is truly expected to be a learning season and not a competitive (as in winning) season, is there any chance they run under the TMG banner for the year to avoid any negative publicity in case things go wrong? They'll get positive publicity for their hybrid system even if they don't win I think so it probably makes sense to run under a normal factory name, but then again, Peugeot and maybe Audi may beat them to the punch as far as winning hybrids go. I guess we'll only really know what is going on when we see what they bring to the track.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by AGD

I'm not sure if the stuff about the goal is learning and such is speculation or a quote from Toyota

Either speculation or speculation based on the interview. The quote from Kinosh!ta only says they have various targets, "increasing understanding of LMP1 racing", develope the tech and that they want to be the first hybrid to finish on a podium (any WEC race counts, I guess). On the other hand, Autosport sort of underlines that nothing has been yet decided.

I find the one car option puzzling because doesn't two cars enable higher rate of learning. 2 x cars, 2 x data etc...

but how much of that is the truth and how much of that is just Toyota trying to offer a built in excuse if they don't win?

Who is expecting them to win anything in 2012? At least on this forum people shouldn't expect.

And if it is truly a learning season, how much may change before they actually go all out in 2013-2014 (assuming the program still exists)?

Gary Watkins thinks in a column next to the story that Toyota is in for the long haul (2014 and beyond).

And if it is truly expected to be a learning season and not a competitive (as in winning) season, is there any chance they run under the TMG banner for the year to avoid any negative publicity in case things go wrong?

Maybe Collins can clarify this, but I don't think he meant literally the "TMG" abbreviation? TMG = Toyota Motorsport (Gmbh). That doesn't make much difference to "Toyota [Sponsor?] Racing". Anyway, the story only talks about Toyota, nothing about TMG (or Lexus for that matter) is mentioned.

[Simmi]

I agree that the two cars would trump the one in terms of data. I hope that is what we see. Gary Watkins describes this as a more humble return to the fold for Toyota which is probably a decent approach.

Given we know this isn't an all guns blazing approach I'm sure this will factor in to the choice of drivers.

Article also speculates that a Spa debut is the most likely in addition to LM and the two Asian WEC rounds.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by deggis

Who is expecting them to win anything in 2012? At least on this forum people shouldn't expect.

I think there is an expectation that anything with the Toyota name and factory involvement should be winning or be in realistic contention to win. That isn't necessarily a fair stance, but Toyota's reputation (particularly in sports car racing, albeit perhaps less in other forms of racing) is to be at the front.

There are also expectations from many (I'm guessing) that Toyota will have an Audi or Peugeot type effort from the very start. There are indications that this may not be the case especially if they only have one car (whether at Le Mans or elsewhere). Certainly it may grow into those types of efforts, but it may not be there at the start of 2012. On the other hand, who knows what exactly is going on. We'll have to see what happens.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Ralf already has a contract with Mercedes for DTM 2012: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95534

Tom K raced in DTM and Le Mans for several years, so that would be no problem .

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by CTD

Tom K raced in DTM and Le Mans for several years, so that would be no problem .

Both with Audi though so it's a different scenario.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Both with Audi though so it's a different scenario.

As Mercedes and Toyota isn't racing against each other in any series, or competitors in the car markets. So if Ralfs racing for Toyota, isn't limiting his DTM effort, then there should be no reason for Mercedes not to let him. It has happened before.

[gwyllion]

Not if they race under the Lexus brand name. Anyway, there are plently of good drivers to chose from, so I prefer that Toyota does not pick that over-rated German.

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Not if they race under the Lexus brand name. Anyway, there are plently of good drivers to chose from, so I prefer that Toyota does not pick that over-rated German.

However, driver selection of Toyota is always conservative.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Not if they race under the Lexus brand name. Anyway, there are plently of good drivers to chose from, so I prefer that Toyota does not pick that over-rated German.

I agree, never liked the Schumachers. But we must accept him as a possibility. If we like it or not...

[Coach Ep]

Maybe one or more drivers from Toyota´s Super GT squad, they´ve got 12:
Hiroaki Ishiura
Takuto Iguchi
Tatsuya Kataoka
Seiji Ara
Daisuke Ito
Kazuya Oshima
Andre Lotterer
Kazuki Nakajima
Yuji Tachikawa
Kohei Hirate
Juichi Wakisaka
Andre Couto

Don´t know most Japanese drivers and me thinks Couto has too much of a touringcar background to be involved with a prototype project. Obviously Lotterer is also out.

Ara + Nakajima would provide a nice pairing with more than sufficient experience and speed!

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Don´t know most Japanese drivers and me thinks Couto has too much of a touringcar background to be involved with a prototype project.

The evaluation to Couto is not good this season. He will lose GT500 sheet next season.

[JAG]

I wonder if Rebellion and the other Lola-Toyota's (if sold) will get the latest spec factory engines to help development. The expected performance improvement, which was mentioned when the factory car was thought to use a 2.0T, could be related to this.