[Rules] Zak Brown and Changes to F1

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The tyre war was good because it allowed a lesser team to upset the odds. The best example being Damon Hill nearly winning in the Arrows in Hungary. Now that was a race that was both great to watch and heartbreaking at the same time.

He finished second.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

He finished second.

Indeed, I said nearly winning

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Yes and no.

There are some third party parts that if just made the same it would be the same situation for everyone. A display unit or something like that would be the extreme at one end. There are others that will perform better on some cars that others. I think a tyre is the most extreme of that later example.
A tyre can be matched to the characteristics of a car.

The latter can be said about many parts from third parties.

[S griffin]

I remember they introduced a rule in 2003 saying a tyre manufacturer can different types of tyres for different teams. The problem stemmed from how Ferrari used Bridgestone to it’s advantage which made it difficult for other teams using the tyre. Which is why McLaren switched to Michelin

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The tyre war was good because it allowed a lesser team to upset the odds. The best example being Damon Hill nearly winning in the Arrows in Hungary. Now that was a race that was both great to watch and heartbreaking at the same time...

dont have numbers, but i would suspect that the budget divide was far smaller in 1997 then it was in 2012 specifically between Williams and the eventual season winner RB.

2012 of course known for absolutely unpredictable and rubbish Pirelli rubber leading to 7 different races winners in as many races with Maldonado taking his Williams to victory in Spain.

i would say that was the biggest upset i could think of, but was just reminded of Panis; win at Monaco...gots to watch that race again tonight!

the other almost upset that comes to mind was Fisichella's Force India coming 2nd at Spa in 2009...with Bridgestone who were the sole supplier for that season.

[S griffin]

True, but I prefer it if we didn’t have to rely on below standard tyres at the end of the day. People seem to forget F1 is a sport, the pinnacle of this type of sport. While we all want to see closer racing and competition, it should still be down to the best to get the job done

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by S griffin

True, but I prefer it if we didn’t have to rely on below standard tyres at the end of the day. People seem to forget F1 is a sport, the pinnacle of this type of sport. While we all want to see closer racing and competition, it should still be down to the best to get the job done

i would prefer that as well...but as Zak said, "Sport in my mind is a chance for everyone to compete fairly and pretty equitably. It is like a heavyweight boxer who only wants to fight middleweights."

letting a team spend whatever they want to optimize a bespoke tire does not help equal the playing field imo.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The problem stemmed from how Ferrari used Bridgestone to it’s advantage which made it difficult for other teams using the tyre.

They paid the price for that in 2005. As Ferrari was practically the only team using Bridgestone tire able to test, Bridgestone could not adapt to the new rules for that very year.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i would prefer that as well...but as Zak said, "Sport in my mind is a chance for everyone to compete fairly and pretty equitably. It is like a heavyweight boxer who only wants to fight middleweights."

letting a team spend whatever they want to optimize a bespoke tire does not help equal the playing field imo.

Brown's argument is not necessarily one in favor of standardized tires but one in favor of a complete standardization. Change the word "tire" to "power-unit" and you get the idea, I guess.

[S griffin]

And Zak’s argument about boxing doesn’t quite fit. If you ask me, it’s no different from the Liverpool or Man City beating a lesser team in the EPL. The difference there is the lesser team can produce an upset, but still the best team always wins the league. If F1 was more like that, that would be an improvement

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And Zak’s argument about boxing doesn’t quite fit. If you ask me, it’s no different from the Liverpool or Man City beating a lesser team in the EPL. The difference there is the lesser team can produce an upset, but still the best team always wins the league. If F1 was more like that, that would be an improvement

if the budget difference between the top team and the bottom team in the EPL is $350 million dollars a year, then i would agree with you.

also a big difference between winning a single game against another club vs beating the entire field in one race where you competing against a few teams spending hundreds of millions a year more then you...at the same time.

and some of these F1 teams have literally hundreds of more employees then the lesser teams...it would be more akin to a lesser team fielding 11 players while Man U fields 20...and then after they win having the nerve to brag about how well they did!

[S griffin]

So Merc running two cars and drivers like everyone else is akin to Man United running 20 cars?

[midgetman]

One word, four letters. R-A-I-N. Always the great leveller.

Which is why Bernie suggested sprinklers.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[S griffin]

Now which countries have the most rainfall?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Now which countries have the most rainfall?

How much rainfall a country has, can be determined by the time of the year.

[Armco Bender]

How much rainfall a country has, can be determined by the time of the year.

Unless you live in England where its determined by the hour...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Unless you live in England where its determined by the hour...

February 2020 has been the wettest month on record with a UK average of 202.1mm.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

If you mean the transition to groved tires, If I remember correctly, it was to reduce the size of the contact patch without using narrower tires? An attempt to reduce overall grip and lower cornering speeds? I could be remembering it wrong.

No, I meant the tyres that were used for the full race in the 2005 season... Tyre changes during the race were banned in that season.

The grooved tyres were introduced in 1998 and dropped in 2009, when the cars returned to full slicks.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by coppice

It's instructive to look at a grid from 30 years ago - 7 different engines -from V8 via V10 to V12

Within 8 years (1989 to 1996), everyone had a V10 as that was the best solution to the regulations.

[ASCII Man]

But what a fun 8 years it was.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

But what a fun 8 years it was.

They must have been doing something right as 40 cars went out on track on some Friday mornings.Admittedly some left the circuit by mid morning.Is there anybody who wouldn't like to see 26 cars on the grid on a Sunday afternoon?I'd much rather have that than hospitality centres that need to be transported by fifteen trucks.Not to mention an absence of carbon wastepaper bins.


As is,I wouldn't bet on more than 14 cars for next year maybe a couple more if a rule freeze means this year's cars can-or must-be used.

[S griffin]

We could do with more teams on the grid. 20 is not enough IMHO

[Peter Mallett]

If you could build a decent engine and gearbox for $1m each and you broke ten each season, that would be less than one power unit from Renault, Honda, Merc, Ferrari. So for a theoretical saving of $20m per year you can power your car. Replicate that with other componentry and open it up to anyone with the skills to provide those parts, you'd be able to attract more teams (Garagistes).

In turn the support industries would also benefit.

In a post Covid 19 world I can see something like this happening since, I believe, the majors will need to re think their business plans.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If you could build a decent engine and gearbox for $1m each

This package costs less than $1m each and can do a full season of racing :



But a lot of people are really opposed to F1 being too "dumbed down".

You can see how incredibly simplistic the above installation is, it's like an F1 car from 30 years ago and a far cry from a modern day F1 machine:

[Peter Mallett]

It's only dumbed down if you stick with a spec engine. If you suggest the configuration but permit individual interpretations you may result in varied engines such as V8/10 or 12.