CRC Motorsport - positives & negatives

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

We have a full field of 30 SRS utes at Pukekohe

Hate to break it to you but 30 utes isn't a full field.

A full field is when the circuit grid limit has been reached, as has happened in 2K cup SI for the past two rounds.

However 2K cup being an entry level class with entry level costs, it is another of the good things that is likely to be seen on the TV.

[socram]

Originally Posted by CDM

Hate to break it to you but 30 utes isn't a full field.

However 2K cup being an entry level class with entry level costs, it is another of the good things that is likely to be seen on the TV.

Agree about the 30 utes, but still better than 9 in many other tier 1 races we have suffered over the last few years.

As regards 2K Cup - shouldn't that read UNlikely to be seen on TV?

We spent our total series sponsorship budget (and then some) on TV coverage a few years ago, and even though it was presented to Sky free of charge, their bean counters preferred to show ancient overseas footage that they had paid for, rather than local, so the last round of the season never was shown. What was shown was two to three months after the event anyway.

It was never properly scheduled and we never knew until two days before that there was a slot, so the voice overs had to be done and the package delivered, pronto. Then when it did go out, one round was shown at 5pm midweek and repeated 7am the next day, not exactly at a time when the average enthusiast would be home.

It left a very bitter taste in the mouth and we vowed to never do it again as it just wasn't worth the cost.

At least with the CRC Motorsport, you do know when it is going out and it is free to air!

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by CDM

Hate to break it to you but 30 utes isn't a full field.

A full field is when the circuit grid limit has been reached, as has happened in 2K cup SI for the past two rounds.

However 2K cup being an entry level class with entry level costs, it is another of the good things that is likely to be seen on the TV.

Semantics CDM, its a full field of Ssangyong Racing Series Ute's because that is all we built. So unless we build some more, which is not likely, 30 is the maximum we can run, not what the track limit is but full field no less.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by socram

As regards 2K Cup - shouldn't that read UNlikely to be seen on TV?

Yes that's certainly what I mean, slip of the fingers there!
Unlikely to be shown on TV unless Nigel or someone has a bright idea for this budget class phenomenon to be aired....

Originally Posted by socram

We spent our total series sponsorship budget (and then some) on TV coverage a few years ago, and even though it was presented to Sky free of charge, their bean counters preferred to show ancient overseas footage that they had paid for, rather than local, so the last round of the season never was shown. What was shown was two to three months after the event anyway.

It was never properly scheduled and we never knew until two days before that there was a slot, so the voice overs had to be done and the package delivered, pronto. Then when it did go out, one round was shown at 5pm midweek and repeated 7am the next day, not exactly at a time when the average enthusiast would be home.

It left a very bitter taste in the mouth and we vowed to never do it again as it just wasn't worth the cost.

Had exactly the same experience a few years back with another class (in fact so similar it could have almost been the same class, although I know that it isn't). The guys that funded the TV coverage were very disappointed & needless to say TV hasn't really been considered for that class since, which IMO is a great shame

[socram]

Probably over to Nigel then for a suggestion.

Maybe one local race meeting a season with some of these 'lesser classes' with great grids and little money and good racing, means a good income for the promoters. An overall sponsor would get pretty good support in terms of TV coverage.

I can do the maths in terms of putting on a race meeting but I am out of touch with the current TV production costs. It certainly doesn't have to be live TV coverage with the attendant costs and complexity.

We'd probably be grateful to know what the costs really are and what the potential then is for a sponsor (or sponsors).

If too sensitive for the public domain, I think Nigel already has some email addresses.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by socram

Probably over to Nigel then for a suggestion.

Maybe one local race meeting a season with some of these 'lesser classes' with great grids and little money and good racing, means a good income for the promoters. An overall sponsor would get pretty good support in terms of TV coverage.

I can do the maths in terms of putting on a race meeting but I am out of touch with the current TV production costs. It certainly doesn't have to be live TV coverage with the attendant costs and complexity.

We'd probably be grateful to know what the costs really are and what the potential then is for a sponsor (or sponsors).

If too sensitive for the public domain, I think Nigel already has some email addresses.

Hi Socram, Happy to help with some info for you....The TV world is very much like the Motorsport world, lots of egos, money is always at the forefront and you can bet on there being plenty of politics... put the two together and it's like the perfect storm... the other big issue is motorsport TV is expensive to make, sadly a lot of people have trouble understanding this.
I am sorry to hear of the horror stories with Sky... problem is that there are no petrol heads at Sky to look after the Motorsport Fans interests.. that would not happen with CRC Motorsport...Shaun and I are like you guys, we are petrol heads at heart and can't get enough of it....

I would gladly play the 2K Cup if I had the space and it could be funded... although I do have a problem with handicap starts and multiple categories on one grid... these races are a challenge to cover for TV and potentially confusing for the viewer... As a guide it costs around $10-20k to produce an hour motorsport for TV, I have to emphasis you don't get a hell of a lot for that sort of money but the coverage is perfectly adequate. Sponsorship is the key..

Cheers.. Nigel

[Woolley]

[QUOTE=Nigel TV3;3476125]that would not happen with CRC Motorsport...Shaun and I are like you guys, we are petrol heads at heart and can't get enough of it.... /QUOTE]

That's what I was trying to say earlier, and made a mess of!

I guess the challenge is to get the coverage out there once and make sure everyone watches it. Viewing figures are everything.

If everyone who's interested watches it, it'll be on again, and then it becomes a habit (or a series link).

Then people who didn't know they were interested start to watch it. And some of those will go out to see it in real life.

That's pretty much how I got started. Good coverage of the RAC rally (As it was then) on top of other national motorsport persuaded me to get out to a stage - there was lots of publicity and good access in the early 80s. The annual Grandstand rallysprint also promoted itself so we went to Donington to see it. They then promoted other stuff and I found myself going to European Touring Cars, World Sports Cars, F3, F3000, and through a friend I found hillcliming. 27 years of marshalling later I'm still out there most week-ends but can no longer find much worth watching on tele, and had to search for any coverage of the Wales Rally GB.

If I can barely find the event that got me interested in the first place, where are the future fans to come from? And this in a country that does OK for motorsport coverage, providing you go looking for it.

[socram]

Originally Posted by Nigel TV3

I would gladly play the 2K Cup if I had the space and it could be funded... although I do have a problem with handicap starts and multiple categories on one grid... these races are a challenge to cover for TV and potentially confusing for the viewer...

Thanks Nigel. When we first had our handicap race covered, it wasn't done every well, though the race finish 50 yards behind the winner, was so hectic that the timekeepers effectively had to admit defeat (pre transponders). Meanwhile the cameras tracked the winner for the next 300 metres and missed all the real action.

After a bit of re-education, things were much better. It is all about understanding the philosophy of the racing and for us, it is NOT just about first across the line. Some handicap races are set up in such a way that the guy who starts last will still finish first, but obviously still has to overtake everyone else.

Our philosophy is that every car should cross the finish line at the same time - a total impossiblity, but it often means fantastic battles towards the end of the race, throughout the whole field. That means that the producer or editor has to see the real action and not spend 90% of the time following the first guy away, who may well have started with a 70 second advantage and may only lose it in the last few yards.

Live spectators understand the handicaps OK and a good (trackside) commentator can make it far more interesting than a processional scratch race. The reason for handicaps is simple enough. It is not chequebook racing and encourages a variety of cars, some of them very interesting, some bog standard, some modified.

Time spent covering the cars in the field demands a lot of the commentators as unlike the boring one make racing, every car might be different. Is that Ford Escort a 1300cc Targa car or a hot 2 litre?

Is that MGB an 1800cc, 1950cc or 3,500cc? Is that the real Bryce Platt, Mark Parsons, Ray Williams or Angus Fogg out there?

There is plenty of opportunity to make handicap racing interesting rather than confusing - and at least you know there is a lot of overtaking - and the cars aren't identical.

As I said earlier, maybe a race meeting with a massive entry could generate enough profit to pay for an hour's TV coverage, but somone needs to stand up and plan it. It isn't going to be me as I am in winding down mode! I've already had over 40 years of organising and promoting.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by socram

Thanks Nigel. When we first had our handicap race covered, it wasn't done every well, though the race finish 50 yards behind the winner, was so hectic that the timekeepers effectively had to admit defeat (pre transponders). Meanwhile the cameras tracked the winner for the next 300 metres and missed all the real action.

After a bit of re-education, things were much better. It is all about understanding the philosophy of the racing and for us, it is NOT just about first across the line. Some handicap races are set up in such a way that the guy who starts last will still finish first, but obviously still has to overtake everyone else.

Our philosophy is that every car should cross the finish line at the same time - a total impossiblity, but it often means fantastic battles towards the end of the race, throughout the whole field. That means that the producer or editor has to see the real action and not spend 90% of the time following the first guy away, who may well have started with a 70 second advantage and may only lose it in the last few yards.

Live spectators understand the handicaps OK and a good (trackside) commentator can make it far more interesting than a processional scratch race. The reason for handicaps is simple enough. It is not chequebook racing and encourages a variety of cars, some of them very interesting, some bog standard, some modified.

Time spent covering the cars in the field demands a lot of the commentators as unlike the boring one make racing, every car might be different. Is that Ford Escort a 1300cc Targa car or a hot 2 litre?

Is that MGB an 1800cc, 1950cc or 3,500cc? Is that the real Bryce Platt, Mark Parsons, Ray Williams or Angus Fogg out there?

There is plenty of opportunity to make handicap racing interesting rather than confusing - and at least you know there is a lot of overtaking - and the cars aren't identical.

As I said earlier, maybe a race meeting with a massive entry could generate enough profit to pay for an hour's TV coverage, but somone needs to stand up and plan it. It isn't going to be me as I am in winding down mode! I've already had over 40 years of organising and promoting.

Hmmmmm. Knowing all the cost's involved, I would be most interested in Nigels answer, which knowing Nigel as I do will be very PC as he would not want to upset the apple cart in any way.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hmmmmm. Knowing all the cost's involved, I would be most interested in Nigels answer, which knowing Nigel as I do will be very PC as he would not want to upset the apple cart in any way.

Hi Socram, I respect your passion and commitment to motorsport but I think in this case we have to agree to disagree.. Handicap multi class races simply don't cut it for TV... I agree a lot with what you are saying but the bottom line is they just don't work for TV.. to difficult to cover and to confusing for the viewer. As well as being the Producer for CRC Motorsport I am the multi camera director for the ST meetings and I can assure you it is physically impossible to do justice to all the drivers and race action in a handicap race... To film a handicap race successfully the broadcast resources would need to be substantial and in the end this would be cost prohibitive. ...you are very welcome to come to the OB Truck and see first hand how we do things and I would appreciate your comments.

Nigel.

[socram]

I respect your professionalism Nigel, but we are probably slightly at cross purposes here.

I would not for one minute expect any race of ours broadcast live and what has worked perfectly well in the past has been an edited package where footage from each camera has been put together afterwards.

If you email me with a postal address, I will happily send you a DVD of one meeting that was shown - and we were more than happy with it, as were our sponsors. It was only Sky that let us down.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by socram

I respect your professionalism Nigel, but we are probably slightly at cross purposes here.

I would not for one minute expect any race of ours broadcast live and what has worked perfectly well in the past has been an edited package where footage from each camera has been put together afterwards.

If you email me with a postal address, I will happily send you a DVD of one meeting that was shown - and we were more than happy with it, as were our sponsors. It was only Sky that let us down.

Thanks Socram... yep I concur with you... a post produced edited Race can achieve the results you require.. although a post produced edited race for the high profile categories is not an option...to have audience appeal, relevance, news coverage and sponsorship support it needs to be live or close to being live... would you watch F1 or Supercars weeks after the event?.. anyway thanks for clarifying things....

[socram]

To be honest Nigel, I am looking forward to recording the Highland Park meeting on Sunday's programme! Does that answer part of your question?

[socram]

Which races are being covered at the Ganley Festival - if any? I saw a camera crew and Phil Dark working hard last weekend in the pits area.

TV coverage hasn't been mentioned at all in any pre event communications and no-one has made any approaches to see if we were willing to chip in to get any.

I sometimes wonder if opportunities are missed to get a broader coverage than we normally get. With a full grid of 46 cars for this coming weekend - plus a fair few reserves, it might have made an attractive proposition for an additional sponsor, to get some good coverage of a class that at least offers plenty of overtaking and vehicle variety.

In terms of spectator numbers alone, this is one of the top 3 circuit events of the season.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by socram

Which races are being covered at the Ganley Festival - if any? I saw a camera crew and Phil Dark working hard last weekend in the pits area.

TV coverage hasn't been mentioned at all in any pre event communications and no-one has made any approaches to see if we were willing to chip in to get any.

I sometimes wonder if opportunities are missed to get a broader coverage than we normally get. With a full grid of 46 cars for this coming weekend - plus a fair few reserves, it might have made an attractive proposition for an additional sponsor, to get some good coverage of a class that at least offers plenty of overtaking and vehicle variety.

In terms of spectator numbers alone, this is one of the top 3 circuit events of the season.

Please to say CRC Motorsport is screening 3 Shows from the Festival.. F5000, Muscle Cars & and Beemers.

Cheers, Nigel.

[socram]

Originally Posted by Nigel TV3

Please to say CRC Motorsport is screening 3 Shows from the Festival.. F5000, Muscle Cars & and Beemers.

Cheers, Nigel.

Thanks Nigel. Ironically, the media manager of the Festival has now discussed TV coverage with me - for next year...

[socram]

Sunday this week - F5000 from Hampton Downs and Aussie GT. Looking forward to that.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by socram

Sunday this week - F5000 from Hampton Downs and Aussie GT. Looking forward to that.

Hi Socram... one of my favorites as well... the Show was made by Phil Dark and he has done a good job.. enjoy..

[ElCoyote]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

To expand on the ten minutes, there's enough racing and interest out there to have an hour long slot full of 10 minute highlight reels of other classes around the world.
Maybe even a separate program in the evening. I recall I think TV1 having a programme on around 10pm that used to show DTM and the UK rally Cross. I miss it rather a lot...

How about more Sam McNeil commentary. Liked him.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by ElCoyote

How about more Sam McNeil commentary. Liked him.

Ah, you're back Warwick...

[GT 86]

Originally Posted by ElCoyote

How about more Sam McNeil commentary. Liked him.

Wrong channel, wrong programme. Aren't you thinking of the Toyota show with Toyota employees presenting it with Toyota adverts and you have to pay to watch this? CRC is FTA!

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by GT 86

Wrong channel, wrong programme. Aren't you thinking of the Toyota show with Toyota employees presenting it with Toyota adverts and you have to pay to watch this? CRC is FTA!

Well he does work for the parts department at - you guessed it - Toyota!

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by GT 86

Wrong channel, wrong programme. Aren't you thinking of the Toyota show with Toyota employees presenting it with Toyota adverts and you have to pay to watch this? CRC is FTA!

Confirming TRS was broadcast on Sky... as a point of interest the ratings for TRS on Sky, for all races, was zero... not enough people were watching to register on the Ratings measuring devices.. CRC Motorsport on the other hand had over 280,000 people tune in on Sunday....

Also ... Indycar, MotoGP, NHRA, WEC, WTTC and Rallycross will soon be screening on CRC Motorsport, plus local content including Rally NZ, Jet sprints, Speedway, Muscle Cars and Race to the Sky... a busy year ahead.... hope you enjoy.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by Nigel TV3

Confirming TRS was broadcast on Sky... as a point of interest the ratings for TRS on Sky, for all races, was zero... not enough people were watching to register on the Ratings measuring devices.. CRC Motorsport on the other hand had over 280,000 people tune in on Sunday....

Are you able to give any information on how this is measured? I've always wondered about this. I watched the TRS (and enjoyed it) recorded on mysky. Would that show up as being viewed to the people watching us?

I appreciate the coverage on CRC at the moment. I make sure I check what is on each week and record anything interesting. In saying that, it seemed the Aus GT coverage was a little out of date. I'm not sure when the Phillip Island round was raced, but I remember seeing some of the highlights before, quite some time ago?

[socram]

I for one don't really care about the delayed coverage. Apart from F1, which I usually record then watch first thing in the morning before hearing it on the radio news, we probably wouldn't know the winners anyway - unless we had researched it, so it still makes for good TV. Well, some of it does!

Good variety Nigel and even though I may only watch half of it, there is still plenty of good stuff. Naturally, I'd like to see some classic/historic stuff from overseas, such as the Goodwood Revival - which I did manage to download from the interweb.