[LM24] OK, So What Do We Talk About Between Last Year's Le Mans and Next Year's.....?

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I don't think so. 9 out of 10 would still choose Marussia over Audi if it was offered, sadly.

Case Webber was different as he was clearly getting bored/done with the (success he had been having in the) series anyways.

I am not convinced..... yes for current lower drivers but I cant see anyone from Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes or McLaren choosing Marussia over Audi or Porsche

[Aysedasi]

I agree with you both.... If you've always been near the bottom of the F1 pile, you probably have to maintain the hope that you can still get a half-decent drive. For the Chiltons and Ericcsons of this world, that's pretty much a forlorn hope in the absence of megabucks like Maldonado. For those who've 'been there, done it and got the t-shirt', once your value begins to drop, then a top LMP1 drive must be a sensible option. I mean even Raikkonen might still get a seat - with Tracey Krohn, perhaps.....?

[bella]

actually i think where endurance in general is winning over f1 is further down the ladder.

the tolerance levels to keep having a go at getting noticed by a f1 team are lowering by the season. it's so expensive to compete in the big single seater series, let alone manage to get your hands on one of the really top drives that'll reward your talent if you've got it. taking the young drivers in elms from the lmp2 classes because those are the ones i know about....

first one across was nelson panciatici at the end of '11. he was a victim of never having enough money to get a decent seat in the junior series at any level, but was fortunate enough to walk into a far more affordable situation at signatech. bloody prompt straight away, now one of the quickest and cleanest drivers in lmp2 anywhere. i think he's a little old school for the big manufacturers though.

after that at the end of '12 was paul-loup chatin. he had a reasonable drive in the eurocup but it's been obvious that unless you really are max verstappen level awesome you have to have been picked up by a f1 team before that point in your career. the next step up anywhere from there is in the region of £750k so he went into lmp-c in elms to learn and linked up with signatech. now one of the star performers on the elms grid thanks to his relative speed versus driver grade. he's also rather shown up fellow rookie oli webb, who doesn't have the benefit of a season in lmpc and a bit of porsches, but does have a couple of seasons in big cars.

then you have tincknell at the end of '13, after a couple of decent but not earth shattering seasons results wise in f3, but very well regarded for being quick and plugged in. straight into one of the best drives in lmp2, and he's kept albuquerque honest. that's pretty faultless. audi would be making a very good choice if they took him on board.

like i say, those are just the few off the top of my head. but you've got others who have gone into whatever spanish gt is called nowadays, the blancpain series, other things with a roof. josh webster went from gp3 to porsches. the point at which they switch is becoming earlier and earlier, and if the opportunity is right then they're more inclined to go "actually yeah, i'll give it a go" rather than "no, not yet, i still think i can be a f1 driver". there's obviously exceptions like fabio leimer who wait until post-gp2 to switch, but they're rarer than the younger kids who take the opportunity to build up respect in the area of the sport where their career would have ended up anyway.

[Simmi]

I think everyone has valid points. If we can continue this momentum then it's exciting times.

I'd like to see Nissan or Porsche take an existing F1 driver in their programmes this year to keep the flow going. Say what you want but these drivers create buzz. Vergne or Hulkenberg would be good additions to the grid.

But what Bella says is true. GP2 has basically become a pay drive graveyard for want of a better word. Unless you have those manufacturer links, where are all bar two guys on that grid actually going? Especially when drivers from one, two, arguably even three rungs below are leapfrogging them into F1.

Brendon Hartley getting that Porsche drive was important and quite a few single-seater guys referenced that they they came over this year. If Tincknell gets an Audi drive in the next 2 years that's also massive.

Ayse is absolutely right about Webber's move making people sit up and take notice. It forced them to look outside the F1 bubble. Even if they don't come true seeing these stories about Alonso, Button etc linked with works sportscar drives isn't such a bad thing. It's more publicity for our sport at the end of the day.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Unless you have those manufacturer links, where are all bar two guys on that grid actually going? Especially when drivers from one, two, arguably even three rungs below are leapfrogging them into F1.

that's pretty much part of the reason i think single seater racing as we know it including f1 will become irrelevant in the next 10 years. unfortunately, i see endurance racing edging into the same breed of mistakes that started to quicken the demise.

an issue i see for endurance racing in the next few years is the number of kids coming across from single seater racing. the guys who have moved before have indeed put relatively little cash into the teams, but there's a special set of circumstances for that, and they don't apply to the average young driver. there's been one or two this year, but you'll see more and more completely average drivers come over expecting to end up like the tincknells and hartleys of the world.

that's really going to upset the balance. i think there's going to be the attitude from a lot of kids that they're too good to bother with the gt side, or even lmp3, so as long as gp2 and fr3.5 continue to fail to increase costs.

the bit where endurance is losing the thread in the same way, imo, is failing to keep the amount teams are willing to spend on racing programmes under control, even on the privateer side. so the amount teams spend on multiple engineers and peripheral fluff increases, series become more expensive to compete at the top. the powers that be introduce a new low cost series at the lower end of the market, and the costs increase in that, and all that happens is that the top series and classes become too expensive for anyone but the big spenders (see: wec lmp1 & lmp2, gp2, fr3.5).

the peripheral fluff is in unnecessary staffing a lot of the time. because the balance of power is a bit odd in single seaters with the drivers and their entorage calling the shots, if x team has y engineers and his team only has y-1, driver wants y because he thinks it'll make him faster. driver is x seconds off the pace. driver demands his car be rebuilt overnight because he thinks it's in the car. it's in his head. cost of new parts for rebuild have to be absorbed in budget. result? higher budgets. team b turn up with some flashy garage boards. so does everyone else the following year because it looks impressive.

for example. to run a big noisy single seater you need a maximum of 8 people. answers on a postcard as to how many staff you think teams actually have... it's madness. the teams point the finger at the organisers for creating expensive series when the teams themselves are running with unsustainable overheads and trying to appease little derek and his nouveau riche dad who wants to see a flashy f1 style setup for his pocket money. they need to be realllllly careful that attitude doesn't creep into sportscars.

/rant

[Mal]

If more of the young talent coming through the ranks heads for sportscars, maybe some of the money that funds them will follow through.

[Deleted]

More and more drivers are switching to sportscars from GP2, GP3, WSBR and whatever other "higher lower" formulae because of economic factors and/or realizing that their careers have not met the path that ultimately gives them the desired F1 seat, that's clear and we all very well know that. The difference is that sportscars were never really the ultimate goal of these people, unlike those who made the switch earlier on, it's plan B after realizing the previously said factors. Nobody from GP2 is aiming for WEC or ELMS or wherever, the goal is Formula 1 (or in case of some of the backmarkers, just fiddling among the others because of rich daddy's cash bags). That's why whenever someone says that GP2, or even F1 in case of some journalists, is "feeder series" for WEC, it just irritates me as it's not really by choice but by turn of events.

Sadly.

But I think when these people eventually do turn to sportscars, they understand what land of opportunities it really is, how you can make your living (if you're not already wealthy/backed enough), and how the biggest prizes available such as wins at Le Mans equal those of F1 in terms of prestige.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Mal

If more of the young talent coming through the ranks heads for sportscars, maybe some of the money that funds them will follow through.

sure, but unfortunately it comes from the wrong place. and what i'm saying is that the direction it comes from ends up exponentially increasing the costs of competing and irreversibly changes the dynamics in a team.

not a path the sector needs to go down.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Chiana

More and more drivers are switching to sportscars from GP2, GP3, WSBR and whatever other "higher lower" formulae because of economic factors and/or realizing that their careers have not met the path that ultimately gives them the desired F1 seat, that's clear and we all very well know that. The difference is that sportscars were never really the ultimate goal of these people, unlike those who made the switch earlier on, it's plan B after realizing the previously said factors.

Honestly I'd argue it's always been that way.

Look back at the list of Le Mans winners from the last 30 years and there's surely only a handful who set out to be Le Mans winners/sportscar drivers. They all targeted F1 and got varying degrees of success.

Some of the only real exceptions you have are a few of the Porsche guys who came through up ladder.

I don't think it's anything to be unduly worried about.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Originally Posted by Chiana

That's why whenever someone says that GP2, or even F1 in case of some journalists, is "feeder series" for WEC, it just irritates me as it's not really by choice but by turn of events.

I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say F1 is the feeder series to the WEC in anything other than jest...

[GT6]

yes always said in jest but there will always be a healthy rivalry between the top motorsport series, we on here rate WEC as top dog others have different opinions

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by wewantourdarbyback

I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say F1 is the feeder series to the WEC in anything other than jest...

It's was always used as (half) joke but the way it was hammered to the head by certain sources on constant basis was annoying. Thankfully, the situation has greatly improved in recent times.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Next June cannot come soon enough! I have the bug and I have it bad! I love that I am so in love with Le Mans. I love that I can't totally put my finger on what I love most about it, or that I can't properly describe the feelings that it creates inside me. All I can ever tell anyone is that it is a magical place. The camaraderie amongst the various nationalities of spectators, the sense of excitement building up to everything.

I've only been twice, but plan to keep going as long as my wallet allows it. However in the two times I have been I am always struck by my excitement when the first qualifying session begins. Both times I have sat in the grandstands at the Ford Chicane and both times I felt a stirring inside, a feeling that there was nowhere else on earth I would rather be, that this was the place I was meant to be and a feeling that I wish I could bottle up for those other 51 weeks of the year.

What other moments really do it for you guys?

Okay, now some questions for those that have done the full week before. 2015 will be my first time to do both scrutineering and the autograph session. I am a planner and love thinking things through way in advance so that I can start looking forward to them. How early do you guys suggest getting to scrutineering to secure a good spot? What would be considered a good spot. Anyone care to do a primer for someone who has never done it before, things to do and expect and plan for? Is it feasible to stand there for both days and experience every part of it? Does it get tedious? How big do the crowds get for the autograph session? How early do people get in line for their favorite teams, which team usually has the longest line? It was funny that at COTA this year Audi for the only time I could recall did not have the biggest line. I got in line for Porsche about an hour before it started and there were about 30-40 people in line before me. By the time the session started there were a good 300 people in line.

[Victor_RO]

Scrutineering - crowds are big, but you can walk around a lot. During some of the downtimes you can run into drivers casually strolling around the place prior to their cars being scrutineered; this is how I managed to snag a photo op with Darren Turner and Bruno Senna on scrutineering Monday this year. There's some stuff going on on the side as well, the ACO driving school had one of its simulator rigs out there.

Autograph session - madness. If it was this bonkers, this jam-packed and crowded this year, next year it'll be far more manic; I was among the first in line and yet I spent 20 minutes trying to make it to the Porsche LMP1 table. So if you want to score autographs from everyone in the 1.5-2 h of the session, my advice is FORGET IT. Pick 4-6 teams and queue up for them.

This post was written on Tapatalk while on a bus trip, so everyone else please feel free to add a lot more details than I could give now in a hurry.

[Deleted]

Surely the line is ought to be more sparse at say Pegasus Racing

[Victor_RO]

I managed to land photos and autographs from Porsche LMP1, Toyota, Oak/GT Academy, Nissan ZEOD and three of the AMR crews (I was more after DHH's autograph than any other, for obvious reasons ).

[GT6]

Those goose bump moments have been discussed before but I always get excited as I see the other cars going to the race at the tunnel and the sound of the first cars on Wednesday just makes me tremble, but that ultimate moment must be the moment we arrive at the campsite and the feeling that "I am Home" floods over me roll on the next 8 months

[isynge]

Originally Posted by GT6

Those goose bump moments have been discussed before but I always get excited as I see the other cars going to the race at the tunnel and the sound of the first cars on Wednesday just makes me tremble, but that ultimate moment must be the moment we arrive at the campsite and the feeling that "I am Home" floods over me roll on the next 8 months

The goosebumps discussion always bears revisiting. Getting the confirmation of my advance booking request from 1st Tickets does something good, so does the process of sorting the various logistics, all the way through to elements Simon talks about, like the trip to the tunnel, the drive down, and seeing the track for the first time.

Big one for me this year was the impromptu trip to Test Day, getting up onto the top of T34, and seeing the run to Dunlop, the tribunes, and the hockey stick, while we heard the racing engines fire up - I suspect if I hadn't been wearing a hat my hair (let alone goosebumps) would have been standing profoundly on end.

[whitemr2]

Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN

Next June cannot come soon enough! I have the bug and I have it bad! I love that I am so in love with Le Mans. I love that I can't totally put my finger on what I love most about it, or that I can't properly describe the feelings that it creates inside me. All I can ever tell anyone is that it is a magical place. The camaraderie amongst the various nationalities of spectators, the sense of excitement building up to everything.

I've only been twice, but plan to keep going as long as my wallet allows it. However in the two times I have been I am always struck by my excitement when the first qualifying session begins. Both times I have sat in the grandstands at the Ford Chicane and both times I felt a stirring inside, a feeling that there was nowhere else on earth I would rather be, that this was the place I was meant to be and a feeling that I wish I could bottle up for those other 51 weeks of the year.

So you are adicted, good for you, isn't it a great feeling.

[whitemr2]

No need to get early at scrutineering, lots of space, you can get real close to the cars and drivers. Last few years it seems to get more crowded but it never was to crowded. You will find out you will get very tired, so do different things, go drink coffee, see the city and pick the teams you don't want to miss. Get a ACO membership and take the tour in the closed aeria. That way you can get even closer to the cars and drivers.

No need to go extemely early to the autograph session. The gate opens at exactly 17.00. If you get there 20 min in advance you will be fine. If you want autographs of audi, toyota, porsche, dempsey you have to be patient. If you want the autographs of all the teams time is not on your side, you won't succeed. Also this is getting bussier every year.
But it is really FUN.

[Deleted]

For those that care about non-LM24 activities at Sarthe (or rather, Bugatti), we have the full calendar for next year here

14-15 March: Fun Cup
28–29 March: French Superbike Championship
18–19 April: 24 Heures Moto
1-3 May: FFSA GT
15-17 May: French Motorbike Grand Prix
31 May: Le Mans 24-Hours Test Day
13-14 June: 83rd Le Mans 24 Hours
27-28 June: 24 Heures Rollers
3-5 July: Fête de l’ACO and 24 Heures Karting
11–12 July: 24 Hours for Mopeds
18-19 July: Promosport French Cups
24-26: Super VW Festival
22-23 August: 24 Hours for Bicycles
10–13 September: KZ Kart World Championship
25–27 September: World Series by Renault
3–4 October: Foulées du Bugatti (Foot races)
10-11 October: 24 Hours for Trucks

Obviously no Classic due to biannual nature. The FIM WEC 24h bike race has been moved back to spring where it used to be so the sports car 24h won't be the first big endurance event of the year there for a change

[Aysedasi]

Has anyone booked for the Moped 24 Hours yet?

[kpkorsager]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

I managed to land photos and autographs from Porsche LMP1, Toyota, Oak/GT Academy, Nissan ZEOD and three of the AMR crews (I was more after DHH's autograph than any other, for obvious reasons ).

If you wanted DHH autograf you should have said so. Beeing with a group of Danes you could have come to the big danish camp and have met him there. All danish drivers visit the camps and tell storyies about what is happening and how they expect to do in the race. Then there is autografs.

See you 2015

[Deleted]

So as per E-I/S365 we have our first confirmed auto entries for 15 (most of which have been known for some time but still)

LMP1
Audi Sport Team Joest

LMP2
Jota Sport
Signatech-Alpine
OAK Racing Team

LMGTE
AF Corse (PRO)
AF Corse (PRO/AM)
SMP Racing (PRO/AM)
SMP Racing (AM)
Aston Martin Racing (AM)
AAI Motorsports (AM)
AAI Motorsports (AM)

Two of the easiest ever invites for AAI...

Two USCC autos to go, then the others announced in February (and see which one of these, if any fold theirs). Already annoyingly many GTE-AM autos

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Chiana

So as per E-I/S365 we have our first confirmed auto entries for 15 (most of which have been known for some time but still)

LMP1
Audi Sport Team Joest

LMP2
Jota Sport
Signatech-Alpine
OAK Racing Team

LMGTE
AF Corse (PRO)
AF Corse (PRO/AM)
SMP Racing (PRO/AM)
SMP Racing (AM)
Aston Martin Racing (AM)
AAI Motorsports (AM)
AAI Motorsports (AM)

Two of the easiest ever invites for AAI...

Two USCC autos to go, then the others announced in February (and see which one of these, if any fold theirs). Already annoyingly many GTE-AM autos

While echoing a degree of Chiana's disinterest in the GTE-AM numbers, the LMP2 line up does at least show that there's a little bit of the auto-entry system working properly - with those three we're already assured of a world class line up there. Okay, none of them were realistically going to be denied an entry, but with things sorted nice and early for them it makes their planning for 2015 that bit easier.

With the increased variety in LMP2 machinery next year I can't help feeling that, once again, it's going to be the race to watch.