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Old 5 Dec 2022, 23:02 (Ref:4136211)   #26
Paul D
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Paul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridPaul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by raspritz View Post
I believe the USA is a bit more litigious than the UK.

That's probably true, but the ambulance chasers over here are doing their best to close the gap!

And all it really does is end up costing us all more, by way of higher prices for certain things (basically anything where the provider/seller fears they may have to defend spurious law suits) as well as higher insurance premiums to cover all the dodgy claims made by said ambulance chasers on behalf of the scamming fraternity. It's been made far too easy over the years for people to claim for 'whiplash' injuries which can't easily be disproved medically, but which more or less guarantees them a minimum payout from even the tiniest of impacts. I've even heard of whiplash claims going in - and being approved - when there was NO VISIBLE DAMAGE to the vehicles. How the hell could anyone suffer whiplash from an impact so minor that it doesn't even damage the vehicle? But they're paying out nevertheless. Go figure...

What any of that has to do with race licence forms, I'm not sure.

But it's just another thing that's impacting the ever-increasing cost of going racing. I'd really like to continue for a few more years yet, but the way costs are going, who knows? The cost of tyres has rocketed recently, as well as fuel, of course. And then, instead of looking for ways to ease the burden, we've got MSUK piling on more expense with ECGs, new rules forcing the replacement of perfectly serviceable extinguishers, higher licence fees, etc. And those are just the recent ones that spring to mind.

Do other sports legislate their amateur competitors to oblivion?
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 09:44 (Ref:4137413)   #27
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Racers have been doing wonders lately! They make unimaginable overtaking and it's cool!
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Old 17 Dec 2022, 17:02 (Ref:4137434)   #28
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Racers have been doing wonders lately! They make unimaginable overtaking and it's cool!
Err - OK...
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Old 18 Dec 2022, 06:58 (Ref:4137477)   #29
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There is now a requirement for an ECG over-sixties for National licences. If I read the requirements correctly, it's required in the same years that a medical would be. However, unlike an international licence it's a resting ECG.
This year I raced once only and did two rallies, largely because I was working away in Falmouth for a significant portion of the year. I think my two licences cost about £270 but I didn’t need a medical.
I have no idea how many races or rallies I will be able to do in 2023 but it it might end up being similar to this year and I might need a medical, an ecg and an eye test.
I do see the medical and eye test as a good thing for general life but I do find it annoying that I seem to need them (and now an ecg) for my race licence but not for rallying. Maybe in the near future, if I just think I may do one or two races a year, I can save myself probably about £400 by just sticking to rallying.
What justification can there be for medicals and ecg in racing but not in rallying? Anyone?
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Old 18 Dec 2022, 12:44 (Ref:4137492)   #30
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The standard answer is that in racing you have other people around you. In rallying/speed events you're a solo vehicle.

Or so I was told many, many years ago.

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Old 18 Dec 2022, 15:16 (Ref:4137502)   #31
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The standard answer is that in racing you have other people around you. In rallying/speed events you're a solo vehicle.

Or so I was told many, many years ago.

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Yes but utter nonsense, particularly on S/V rallies with splits and merges, and if u had a medical emergency on a rally which causes an accident, it could quickly get bigger if spectators are involved ( no armco to protect them)
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Old 18 Dec 2022, 16:22 (Ref:4137505)   #32
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I've always thought that things like that go under the radar so best not to mention them in case the Powers That Be decide to impose "common safety standards".

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Old 18 Dec 2022, 22:01 (Ref:4137522)   #33
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Paul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridPaul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Refer back to my post #11 where I stated the case as mentioned: apart from the question of the possibility of spectators in close proximity, with much less protection (in most cases) between 'us' and 'them' than there would typically be at a race track, we also have to consider the fact that a rally driver has another person sat right next to him/her, who could also be put in grave danger should said driver suffer a medical emergency at speed.

Yet still we can all go driving 300+ BHP rally cars with no medical checks, but we can't race a standard Citroen C1 or 2CV? Like Andy, I also have previous experience of stage rallying, and on some single venue events I did in the dark & distant past, people with experience of race events only would possibly be shocked to realise just how close to the cars spectators often get.

So the argument of needing a medical because of having other people around when racing simply holds no water whatever way you slice it.

Could anyone with common sense make this stuff up...?

Answers on a postcard.
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Old 19 Dec 2022, 06:52 (Ref:4137538)   #34
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I've always thought that things like that go under the radar so best not to mention them in case the Powers That Be decide to impose "common safety standards".

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If safety is important, then there should be common standards. However the medical requirements (eg the need for an ecg) should be evidence based.

I remember a few years ago a racer and heart surgeon of my acquaintance challenged the MSA (as it was then) and the FIA on the need for a stress ecg for an international C licence as he reckoned it was more likely to initiate a heart attack than prove that you were unlikely to have one.
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Old 23 Dec 2022, 00:51 (Ref:4137916)   #35
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If an ECG causes you to have a heart attack then probably best you don’t race or rally!
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Old 23 Dec 2022, 06:31 (Ref:4137925)   #36
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If an ECG causes you to have a heart attack then probably best you don’t race or rally!
“Stress ECG”.

I will listen to the opinion of a heart surgeon.
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 08:39 (Ref:4138399)   #37
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“Stress ECG”.

I will listen to the opinion of a heart surgeon.
My old friendly race doctor Rod Longton once told me,after completing my ECG of an old guy he once did an egg for a 90 Yr old guy for his health insurance.He past with flying colours.Drove just a couple of miles to home,opened the car door and bang,that was it,game over.
Successful ECG is no guarantee that everything will be fine.
Here in Germany,we don't need the ecg test as it has been known to cause too many problems.Just a quick medical,steph on the chest and that's it,done.?
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 10:34 (Ref:4138405)   #38
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One of my customers used to work on the cardiology unit at a local hospital and she would get the ECG done for me for free. I remember the first time that I went she was staring at the screen in disbelief ! and I asked her if there was something wrong ?
She explained that she had worked in the cardiology department for years, and the majority of the time she tested people that were actually ill and was surprised to see a perfectly normal result
We have (like a lot of people) a blood pressure tester at home that my wife uses every day and is annoyed when I try it, as it reads just the same as 30 years ago 120 over 72
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 11:03 (Ref:4138407)   #39
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We have (like a lot of people) a blood pressure tester at home that my wife uses every day and is annoyed when I try it, as it reads just the same as 30 years ago 120 over 72
Mine is usually a similar number to Gordon's and my Doctor last time mine was checked said he wishes my BP reading was his!
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 13:44 (Ref:4138417)   #40
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Mine is usually a similar number to Gordon's and my Doctor last time mine was checked said he wishes my BP reading was his!
I daren't check my blood pressure at the moment as I have just opened a letter relating to one of my savings accounts. In one year it has lost 7k !!!
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 15:29 (Ref:4138426)   #41
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My old friendly race doctor Rod Longton once told me,after completing my ECG of an old guy he once did an egg for
This one is hard to swallow, terence, and please note this is a serious thread ! May be he was a curate, hence the egg, and the door was paradise's! Happy NY, terence!
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 17:52 (Ref:4138434)   #42
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I daren't check my blood pressure at the moment as I have just opened a letter relating to one of my savings accounts. In one year it has lost 7k !!!
I share your pain (and experience) Gordon. Similar for me, although I suppose I was actually surprised it hadn’t lost more given the state of U.K. politics and the economy in 2022.
On top of that I have just done my self assessment tax form, so more pain. Yes, I know, I did the work so have to pay the tax but does make this time of year unpleasant.
Finally, it was Mrs97s 60th birthday just before Xmas and it’s our 25th wedding anniv in about 2 weeks time. Cost me a fortune. Ouch!!!
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 18:14 (Ref:4138437)   #43
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Finally, it was Mrs97s 60th birthday just before Xmas and it’s our 25th wedding anniv in about 2 weeks time. Cost me a fortune. Ouch!!!
Less expensive than a divorce and much much more pleasant. Happy you both!
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 22:01 (Ref:4138453)   #44
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“Stress ECG”.

I will listen to the opinion of a heart surgeon.
I’m sorry it was just a joke. Don’t have a heart attack about it.

Although please remember I didn’t hear it from an old doctor, I heard it from a random dude on the internet!

I’m sure they are not perfect predictors. Although as Gordon points out of there is something really bad then it does show something. Interesting that the MSA have continued with them despite being challenged. They must be getting a great kick back for all the stress.
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 23:03 (Ref:4138455)   #45
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Less expensive than a divorce and much much more pleasant. Happy you both!
Absolutely true, Gerard.
And considering I bought my Audi quattro just 6 weeks after getting married, without consultation, in the misapprehension that I was allowed to do such things, and still have the car and the same Mrs97, I have done quite well really.
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Old 29 Dec 2022, 23:12 (Ref:4138456)   #46
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Absolutely true, Gerard.
And considering I bought my Audi quattro just 6 weeks after getting married, without consultation, in the misapprehension that I was allowed to do such things, and still have the car and the same Mrs97, I have done quite well really.
Likewise we have been together for 50 years, and never a cross word !rofl::click on the link

https://youtu.be/ltpk5PLzhnc
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Old 30 Dec 2022, 07:29 (Ref:4138476)   #47
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Likewise we have been together for 50 years, and never a cross word !rofl::click on the link

https://youtu.be/ltpk5PLzhnc
The row that ensued was the first of our married life and, to date, is still the biggest one we have had!
It didn’t help that I was supposed to be looking for a car for Mrs97!
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Old 30 Dec 2022, 07:32 (Ref:4138477)   #48
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Time changed only the trunk you're sitting on into stairs… Wizzard!
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Old 30 Dec 2022, 18:44 (Ref:4138514)   #49
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There can't be many couples that still have essentially the same hair styles 50 years on Milady and I are on about 45 years together - not wed, I don't like to rush into things - but our photos wouldn't reflect such a similarity


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Old 31 Dec 2022, 01:21 (Ref:4138536)   #50
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Lang may your lum reek, as I believe they say!
I confess I had to look that one up.... not a phrase we use down here much. Not that I have heard anyway. Maybe I will give it a go and use it tonight.
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