ZIPFORD SCHOLARSHIP is this enough!

kpm · 26 Jan 2002, 17:49 (Ref:204811)

Although involved with the formula I think the scholarship scheme anounced by M.Hines is quite an attractive deal , the winner of this even handed championship will recive a fully funded drive in a top F. Renault team for the next season. And then if they won the F.Renault series a fully funded drive in Formula 3. There can of course be only one winner of the series but it should make for some competitive racing with so much on the line to the zipford champion. Is this enough to really get the series off the ground at last?

hysen · 26 Jan 2002, 18:11 (Ref:204817)

While yes the prize is very attractive i can't help but think that the winner of this 'even handed championship?' has already been picked!

kpm · 26 Jan 2002, 23:25 (Ref:204978)

Its a good point, I know these type of prizes are always viewed with suspision but belive me if you saw the rules theres no way of fixing the result . For one there will be five independant teams who will all want to win the championship with there driver, as well as the zip run cars, and any driver or team can request the use of a competitors car if they feel they have an advantage, there are only four test days allowed , and anyone found flouting this rule is excluded from that point on. so it really should be open to the fastest most consistant driver to win. the only thing i can see happening is drivers with a lot of experience coming in as a chance to make it up the ladder , I have already spoken this week to some highly well known drivers who are looking for drives.

nobjockey · 27 Jan 2002, 01:06 (Ref:205023)

Spot on Hysen. I feel another FPA comming on here.

KPM - how will an independent team know any of the other teams aren't getting any 'help'?

I think this scholarship scheme is very smelly.

sneakyg · 27 Jan 2002, 02:24 (Ref:205041)

MMMMMMMMmmmmm
I think anything that the "suntanned wonder" is involved in, tends to have a sickly odour.!

kpm · 27 Jan 2002, 09:51 (Ref:205102)

To be honest the cars set up is so simple that no amount of help from zip directly would give an advantage to any driver or team that are reasonably able to run simple single seaters.as i said earlier at any time any team can request the imeadiate use of a competitors car as a comparison to there own. Financialy the independant teams will have invested a lot of time and money in the formula and I like the others will be less than pleased to the point of legal action if it was found that there was any sort of "fix" involved lets hope its just a good seasons racing ahead.

AndyF · 27 Jan 2002, 09:58 (Ref:205108)

Dodgy or not, the Scholarship should go someway to enhance the profile of the series!

SILVERS95 · 28 Jan 2002, 13:23 (Ref:205739)

Bloody good racing though.....the mini winter series at brands last year was quite good....Josh Fisher and Edward Redfern was making a good race of it for the lead.....Fisher was snaking all over the place unddr braking going into Paddock and seemed to hold it right on the limit of what these cars can achieve....for me , So far anyway , i havent got any complaints !..it looks like it will produce some good close racing and if the Winner get a paid drive in a top F Renault seat , that surley that can only be a good thing.

Clyde Ankle · 28 Jan 2002, 13:49 (Ref:205748)

Well I'm looking forward to watching some good racing in Zipford this year.

It's just a shame that they have to race with bumpers on them.

kpm · 28 Jan 2002, 14:51 (Ref:205767)

BUMPERS! blame the MSA as far as i know this was a requirement of theirs to allow 16 yr olds to race. Thats why the rear wing/bumper is so low, from the front it looks like the rear wing has fallen off!. They do work though as Terry Grant found out at the winter series, and they add a bit of room for sponsors adds.

Andy Roberts · 31 Jan 2002, 20:20 (Ref:207677)

I still think its amazing that drivers like Josh Fisher get touted as a star driver in only his first ever race in the Zip Formula Winter Series, yet I raced against him all year in Formula Honda while he also did Global GT Lights as well! This peaved quite a few people besides me as it was a blatent lie and despite well over 20 people writing to the magazines to say this nothing gets printed.... Strange isn't it.

How can they tout it as the first step on the single seater ladder when you can quite easilly do a season in something like Formula Honda or BARC Renault for £7k when ZipFord is £25k....... Some first step which can only be taken with very rich daddies...

Its only got in there as the offical starter catagory of the MSA because Mr Hines has the money to push it.

rcwatts17 · 1 Feb 2002, 15:38 (Ref:208181)

Whered did you see drives advertised that cheap?

kpm · 1 Feb 2002, 16:02 (Ref:208189)

Are the prices quoted for a proffesional team to run the car as arrive and drive , if not its hardly a fair comparison, The zipford series now has full sky tv coverage,

Paul Rayner · 1 Feb 2002, 16:10 (Ref:208195)

Quote:

Originally posted by Andy Roberts
How can they tout it as the first step on the single seater ladder when you can quite easilly do a season in something like Formula Honda or BARC Renault for £7k when ZipFord is £25k....... Some first step which can only be taken with very rich daddies...

Its only got in there as the offical starter catagory of the MSA because Mr Hines has the money to push it.

The reason that you can say it's the first step on the single seater ladder instead of F Honda and BARC F Renault is because they are seen more as club racing series, raced in by older men who enjoy racing and younger drivers who can't afford to take the more successful route.
I've read your comments before, and understand that you're annoyed that it takes money, and often a "rich daddy" to get on in the sport, but that's the way it is.
The sad truth is that even ZipFord might go the way of Formula First, in that the only people who do it are those who haven't got the money to get much further. The Scholarship could help go against that, I think that it's got to be a good thing for the series. But it can't be all-or-nothing, like Formula Palmer Audi was. Successful feeder categories like Formula Ford, Renault and 3 enable the second place driver to be promoted to the next level as well as the champion.

Jonny Apex · 1 Feb 2002, 16:41 (Ref:208207)

Quote:

Originally posted by SILVERS95
Bloody good racing though.....the mini winter series at brands last year was quite good....Josh Fisher and Edward Redfern was making a good race of it for the lead.....Fisher was snaking all over the place unddr braking going into Paddock and seemed to hold it right on the limit of what these cars can achieve....for me , So far anyway , i havent got any complaints !..it looks like it will produce some good close racing and if the Winner get a paid drive in a top F Renault seat , that surley that can only be a good thing.

Edward Redfern. What a talent.

SILVERS95 · 2 Feb 2002, 16:05 (Ref:208962)

Andy Roberts ....i dont think you can call thee BARC RENUALT series truly competetive !....as alot of drivers there are all going in different directins in their careers , and as Paul says , its more of a club series...where as Zipford is more of a starting place for the junior drivers.....As far as Josh Fisher goes , people can hype him all he wants, as it doenst really matter , i thought he had a damm good few races in the winter Zipford series ,as was very exciting to watch , and certanly wasnt intimidated by anyone else out there on the track.

Lola · 4 Feb 2002, 23:13 (Ref:210420)

Im with you Andy. Zipford look awfull, soooo ugly

and what i have seen any car that looks as it may be quick falls off. They look as if they handle like a shopping trolly. They may get the Sky coverage and all the attention with the press but there is more talent at the end of the day in many of the local FF1600 , Renault and Honda championships etc. The drivers may be older but....isnt age just a number. Take a look at Gerry Marshall. If they have a rich daddy does it give them the right to funded drives at higher levels. I think not.

Green Light · 4 Feb 2002, 23:26 (Ref:210432)

Lola, why dont u try this new championships everyone is banging on about, this challenge initiative lark, dont know much about it, but the cars are as not butt ugly as the Zipford.

PS whats the point of TV coverage, F3, GT, FPA etc all have TV coverage, and they dont get anyone to see it, and the coverage is hardly fair is it, you dont see any of the lower racers.

PPS, the comment on Edward Redfern, I raced on the Birmingham karting team, in the uni championship last year at Clay, the guy was there racing for one team or another, and to tell you the truth he be better in a bath tub. The guy might be able to race, but come on hes getting betten by University kids here.

Also to be truthful, is there any clear way to F1, you just have to look at the new stars in F1, Kimi went from Renault, Massa came from Euro F3000, Young came from Formula Nippon etc, can you really say that F3 or any mini championship is a clear step to Formula one???

David Tremayne · 11 Feb 2002, 13:28 (Ref:214046)

Last time I looked, Formula Honda was awash with young drivers.

The front row at Mallory Park last August comprised Tom Tremayne and Josh Fisher, all of 17 and 16 years old respectively.

David Scott and Philip Churchman are both 18. This year they'll be joined by Luke Kidsley who is 17, and other young drivers are also being attracted. I didn't see any nursery bumpers on Josh's car at Mallory, either, so somebody is not being straight about legal requirements.

All of these guys are out of karting, and have shown themselves to be very capable pedallers. Josh has won races, Tom smashed the lap record at Mallory in only his second race in cars. David and Phil are both quick and will help to raise the image of the series this year.

Reigning champ Alex Buncombe, Ben Cooper, Andy Roberts and Louis Hamilton-Smith are all young guys, too. Even John Corbyn is only a boy.

If you want a cost-effective, slicks and wings starter series in cars that will teach you what you need to know to go fast in Formula Renault, you should take a serious look at Formula Honda. Budgets are sensible. The cars look great and make a fabulous noise, and if you don't think they are quick, ask either of the Falcon Motorsport Formula Renault guys who couldn't shake off Tom and Phil in the wet at Donington on Feb 7...

David Tremayne

DSM · 11 Feb 2002, 16:27 (Ref:214112)

Further to the message from Dave Tremayne I can't agree more. Of course he's biased as Tom is his son. Objectively, I would say that Tom is quick but David Scott will be the one to watch!!!!

Seriously, having cut teeth in F Honda I genuinely can't see the point in most of the other Single Seaters from FF down. The Hondas are close in speed to Zetecs,look and sound better, teach what is needed and not just how to knock corners off. 14000RPM, 6 speed sequential boxes,etc.etc.

As for Zipford, having read all the recent mail I still can't see the point. From what I can gather its future is still shaky - don't order the new 911 yet, Martin!!!

hysen · 11 Feb 2002, 16:42 (Ref:214113)

While I am sure that Formula Honda gives newcomers a good and cheap first experience of cars in terms of publicity it offers nothing, infact I thought the championship went under a couple of years ago! Like alot of people I am very sceptical of the ZipFord concept but if theres one thing MH does well, its drum up interest which can only be of benefit to the drivers in his championship.

DSM · 11 Feb 2002, 17:11 (Ref:214134)

Hysen - you're right. MH can drum up interest. whether it's of real benefit to anyone is debatable.

What do we want here? A publicity machine or good racers in fast exciting machinery. if your answer is the former, support ZipFord.

Actually, I do appreciate that good publicity is important. But when it takes precedent over the content of what's being publicised it harms us all. Arguably only FF has succeeded at 'lower' levels in recent history.

Whenever the content has been sacrificed for the hype and a quick buck the series wither and die. (F First; F Vauxhall; FPA etc.)will ZF be next?

Interestingly enough, F Honda DID die a couple of years ago - when it was taken over by publicity hungry co-ordinators who lost sight of the sport. Time will tell whether a viable, affordable compromise can be reached.

Clyde Ankle · 11 Feb 2002, 17:52 (Ref:214144)

Formula Honda does seem to have everything going for it as previously mentioned but in the last five years nobody has come from it and gone on to achieve success. Could it be that it doesn't attract the high-flyers?

This year it will be competing against Formula Zip for the same drivers for the same budget. It will be interesting to see who signs with which and where those drivers go after this year.

David Tremayne · 11 Feb 2002, 20:21 (Ref:214219)

David Scott (DSM) is right when he asks what racers really want - hype and not much to back it up, or decent cars and good racing.

But before all you Zipford fans write off Formula Honda, why not get down to watch a race? Better still, give Mr Corbyn a call and sort yourself a test session at Mallory on a Wednesday morning. For £350 you'll have the chance to find out for real about British club motorsport's best-kept secret.

Publicity is important, obviously, but my experience of racing is that the press will write what it wants to write, and will ignore what it wants to ignore, irrespective of where the story lies. And simply getting a lot of ink is not always the key to attracting a sponsor. The ability to drive plays a key role still, thankfully.

Sure, Zipford has done a great job on the publicity, but then it's also around twice the cost of a season of Honda. Let's see where both go as the year progresses. If Formula Honda has a failing it is that it is not sufficiently promoted, but competitors are working on that, too.

Like I said, come and have a look. Our experience since we started at Cadwell last year is that competitors are friendly and helpful, and the racing is sensible. People like Andy Roberts also know how to race hard but fairly - I won't forget the sight of Tom trying to go round the outside of him at the Devil's Elbow at Mallory with wheels virtually interlocked and Andy doing his best to ease Tom over to the right to discourage him. They were an inch apart all down to Gerard's, where Tom went round the outside. Fabulous stuff by both drivers, done with style and just the right amount of aggression. If that was Formula Ford it would have been brake test time and an accident.

The first round is at Cadwell on April 7. It's up to you, guys...

Oh, by the way, don't forget that James Pickford got a McLaren BRDC Autosport Young Driver Award nomination after his success in Formula Honda.

David Tremayne

paulzinho · 11 Feb 2002, 20:45 (Ref:214238)

Quote:

Originally posted by David Tremayne
Like I said, come and have a look. Our experience since we started at Cadwell last year is that competitors are friendly and helpful, and the racing is sensible. People like Andy Roberts also know how to race hard but fairly - I won't forget the sight of Tom trying to go round the outside of him at the Devil's Elbow at Mallory with wheels virtually interlocked and Andy doing his best to ease Tom over to the right to discourage him. They were an inch apart all down to Gerard's, where Tom went round the outside. Fabulous stuff by both drivers, done with style and just the right amount of aggression. If that was Formula Ford it would have been brake test time and an accident.

How times change, I always remember the story of my Dad in Formula Ford going around Hawthorns with Dave Coyne, wheels interlocked and how they could easily have had each other off but the trust was there and they raced on, hard but fair.

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