Friday 'Rookie' drivers rule

[Adam43]

Red Bull Racing are trying to get the Friday testing rule changed so that Klien can test on Friday morning. Which would be ideal for them.

Should it be changed? Surely there is a EU rule about this Can it be changed? Who will object, if anyone?

http://www.autosport-atlas.com/news.aspx?id=43464&s=5

[Stephen Green]

The story I read on Reuters was that Red Bull had written to every team asking if they would be prepared to relax the rule for them. Somehow I doubt they will all agree?

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

While the rule is admirable in a way, effectivly forcing teams to run rookie drivers giving the young guys much needed experience.

In practise however, it's not so peachy with a lot of experienced drivers who could be an assest on Friday not being allowed to run. McNish, Panis, Zonta(?) and Klien all come to mind. Afterall, if you were covering the large expense of running a third car you would want the best driver possible piloting it, wouldn't you?

[O'Schumacher]

No the rule should not be changed!

I know It's harsh on Klien and I do feel for him, and having to run Speed or Jani rather than him on Fridays will be of less use to the team in the short term, but Red Bull joined F1, They signed up to the rulebook. If they wanted a change they should have mentioned it back in January, not now. They cant have one rule for them and one for everyone else! It's their own fault for demoting Klien, who don't forget had outqualified squarejaw for every race so far.

[Stephen Green]

Outqualified maybe, outraced no.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think they've got some chutzpah to try and get this overturned. They knew all along that the rule was there when they planned ot alternate the drive, and should udnerstand why it's there, and why it would be completely wrong for them to attempt to circumnavigate it in this way.

I do agree tht the rule shouldn't allow guys like de la Rosa or Zonta, who have so much racig experienc ein the past, but Klien has done so many races that he would give an unfair advantage to the team. As mentioned, they should've raised this issue a long time ago, rather than trying to blackmail the teams at the last minute (ditto Minardi's old car fiasco, I guess).

[mixxer]

No the rule should remain the way it is, if the experienced driver was any good he would have a regular drive, I say leave it to the young guns.

[Adam43]

Yes leave it to the young guns de la Rosa and Wurz instead of old hand Klien

[mixxer]

I say take it further too, only allow the rookies 1 year of the Friday driving then force the teams to bring in more new talent.

Adam, IMO all three of those mentioned shouldn't be there on Friday, let them be part of the test and development team but not drive on the Friday of the GP, why not try to cultivate some new talent instead.

[Kicking-back]

I propose the radical idea of allowing the third car to be driven by any driver the team wants to drive it.

[Mekola]

Friday 3rd car could be used as the showcase for these drivers who haven't a race seat, as did with Zonta and Davidson last year, then I'm doubtful if the rule is OK, because penalise older drivers in favour of newbies.
IMHO I prefer FIA could allow teams to use the 3rd car for the entire GP weekend (that means in qualifying and race) if they can do it, in order to increase car entries at each GP and give more chances to established F1 drivers with no seat. Then it could be F1 teams with 2 or 3 cars depending on their strength.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Should it be changed? Surely there is a EU rule about this Can it be changed? Who will object, if anyone?

I would have thought had there been a question of it flouting any human(workers) rights issues it would have been ammended by now.Clearly the rule isn't doing what it was intended to do (not for the first time) and should be changed to allow the likes of Klien to test on Fridays.

Why should anyone object,it would be a change to benefit everyone.Except perhaps Justin Wilson,but he's doing good in Champcars and may well find his way back to F1 via that route.

[lookleft]

OT but I'm with KB - let 'em run who ever they want on the Friday but extend it to all teams and make it mandatory to run the car. At least give the fans at the track something to see in these days of reduced mileage. It would only be a maximum of 30 cars on track - probably more like 18 - 22 at any given time.

What we are seeing now is the teams relying on the simulation data and doing very little actual setup work at the track. All the decent stuff is done at the big tests with no engine restrictions. Not good for TV, not good for the paying spectator, not good for the Corporate events on track.


Now getting way OT...
If they want to save costs / limit perfomance gains the engines should be sealed at the start of an event and the same engine used to run any tests before the next event. New engine at the start of each event. If the engine lets go at race then you can either choose to install the new unit for testing to remain in for the race or do no testing. That would stop Ferrari, would slow tyre development and encourace teams to actually put on a show when they get the the track.

These two ideas combined address much of waht is wrong with the "show" at the moment and would reduce costs. Noew, what is the FIA's number??

[Don K]

Originally Posted by Silk Cut Jaguar

In practise however, it's not so peachy with a lot of experienced drivers who could be an assest on Friday not being allowed to run. McNish, Panis, Zonta(?) and Klien all come to mind.

That rule does not block McNish. McNish did not drive any GP in 2003 or 2004.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by lookleft

Now getting way OT...
If they want to save costs / limit perfomance gains the engines should be sealed at the start of an event and the same engine used to run any tests before the next event. New engine at the start of each event. If the engine lets go at race then you can either choose to install the new unit for testing to remain in for the race or do no testing. That would stop Ferrari, would slow tyre development and encourace teams to actually put on a show when they get the the track.

Let me see whether I understand what you are saying...

At the start of a race weekend, the engine is sealed. And the driver is not allowed to use another engine in the race weekends, or in testing between both races.

- Do you realise that your rule would seriously benefit teams like Ferrari, BAR, McLaren and Toyota (who have 2 or more test drivers)?
- Do you realise that this rule would make it impossible for teams like Minardi to finish development on their 2005 car (as they wouldn't be allowed to test it?

[Don K]

Originally Posted by lookleft

OT but I'm with KB - let 'em run who ever they want on the Friday but extend it to all teams and make it mandatory to run the car.

Do you realise what this would mean for teams like Minardi and Sauber, who can't afford to run a third car at the moment?

Under the current rule, these teams can occasionally get some money if a group of sponsors wants to give a talented driver a chance to show what he can do during friday testing.
But if the third car becomes compulsary, the teams will loose the possibillity to ask much money for it. So they will end up using money they should have used for their first and second cars.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Surely there is a EU rule about this

i guess this is a joke but can someone actually be bared from a job simply on the grounds that they have too much experience in europe. of course a team can choose to go for someone less experienced and less costly its up to them, but for there to be a blanket rule againt experience. seems to be contrary to the ideals of an open and fair labour market.
on a side when did friday practice become a free test day for new talent. shouldn't it be a chance for the weaker teams(based on last years standings) to get more set up time and the more experienced the driver the better for the team running the 3rd car-no?

[BootsOntheSide]

Friday testing should remain as an option for the lower-order teams only. It's been a great leveller in the last couple of years, as well as allowing guys like Davidson and Liuzzi to gain vital experience. I would change the rule in terms of how many races a driver is allowed or have competed in, maybe a maximum of 6 in the last 2 years AND a maximum of say 20 ever, to prevent rich teams gaining an unfair advantage by running guys like de la Rosa and Zonta.

[lookleft]

Originally Posted by Don K

Let me see whether I understand what you are saying...

At the start of a race weekend, the engine is sealed. And the driver is not allowed to use another engine in the race weekends, or in testing between both races.

- Do you realise that your rule would seriously benefit teams like Ferrari, BAR, McLaren and Toyota (who have 2 or more test drivers)?

Only if you continue to allow the team to run unlimited. If they are limited to running 3 cars at a test (with however many drivers) then it actually pulls them into line. It' pretty hard to run a F1 car without anyone knowing....

Originally Posted by Don K

- Do you realise that this rule would make it impossible for teams like Minardi to finish development on their 2005 car (as they wouldn't be allowed to test it?

they don't test anyway! What have they got, 1 test day for the new car before Imola - only 1 chassis at that! More like a shakedown IMHO.

[lookleft]

Originally Posted by Don K

Do you realise what this would mean for teams like Minardi and Sauber, who can't afford to run a third car at the moment?

Under the current rule, these teams can occasionally get some money if a group of sponsors wants to give a talented driver a chance to show what he can do during friday testing.
But if the third car becomes compulsary, the teams will loose the possibillity to ask much money for it. So they will end up using money they should have used for their first and second cars.

Lost me there... are you implying that by not normally running the third car there is some kind of exclusivity if a sponsor does pony up for a session?

I would suggest that if the car is REQUIRED to run there will be a number of seats available to a suitably funded driver (Minardi, Jordan, Sauber) at each event, that is 57 chances for a driver to have a test, in front of sponsors / backers etc. Naturally there will be competition between the teams to get the cost / skill ratio right for the seat. The issue becomes getting a Superlicence but we have seen "flexibility" in this area before.

The third car is at the event, technicians to run the car are already there. Most of the teams would hardly register the additional cost. Jordan (Midland) will be ok next season, Sauber has already indicated they are looking to run a 3rd car. That leaves poor Minardi - fundamentally you operate a business based on your ability to exist in the market. If they can't afford it then its a sad farewell.

Suggest you go to an event and provided feedback on the quality of the "show". It just doesn't do F1 justice at the moment..

[Don K]

Originally Posted by lookleft

Lost me there... are you implying that by not normally running the third car there is some kind of exclusivity if a sponsor does pony up for a session

As long as it is not required to run a third car, Minardi and Sauber can easily say "No" to managers who are trying to get their driver into a friday test seat, as long as the amount of money they offer is less than the amount of money needed to cover the costs.

As soon as the third car becomes compulsory, they simply have to take the highest offer. And they have to take the money needed to actually run the third car out of some other part of their budget. Which would mean they can spend less money on their first and second cars.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by lookleft

Only if you continue to allow the team to run unlimited. If they are limited to running 3 cars at a test (with however many drivers) then it actually pulls them into line.

No. The engine rule is tied to the drivers, not to the cars. If they use 3 test drivers who are not participating in the race weekends, they can use new engines.

[PaulSands]

I should think Justin Wilson will be spitting blood at this ruling as he was effectively ruled out of any opportunity to be Jags 3rd driver for 2004 as a result of the third driver ruling...

[Hazza]

I still like the rule that puts testing and friday testing up like draft picks - The lower you finish the more you can test, but you can sell it off. And the same could go on a race by race basis for the Friday testing.
And get rid of the silly "6 race" rule. I mean, some one like Red Bull would allways have run Luizzi or Bjorn W., so what if Sauber runs Ralf Firman or something!

[Stephen Green]

The six race rule has been abandoned yesterday. Red Bull got agreement from all the teams for the rule to be scrapped.