Costs of Marshal's Training

[JimW]

Here's a Christmas thought for all of you wondering how to help the Marshals Club fund marshal training in the New Year.

In the past insurance for these days was provided without charge by the MSA. In future we shall have to find £15 per day to help the MSA pay its costs.

(No, the Motorsports Training Trust won't be any help; it has cut all support for training days in 2003 to such an extent that running the days will be difficult. The stock market problems affect them as well you know. )

So the Marshals Club, most of whose regular support comes from the subscription of its members, is now going to have to pay the MSA some £400 per year.

Forgive me, but is something wrong here?

Thank goodness for the support of some organising clubs who come to our aid with money as well as other forms of support. I'm not going to give a full list, but the Midland Region of the British Motorsport Marshals Club will be able to put on the training days at Donington (25th January - Rescue, 26th January Race and Rally) only after generous support from the Top Hat Racing Series. Thanks Guys.

Best wishes

Jim Whitaker

[blackx]

Don't it just suck that we seem to be getting the s??t end of the stick yet again???????

[Mad Hats]

I've just packed in marshalling, it was difficult decision after being in orange for about 20 years but I shall still be at my local circuit (Lydden) although in a different capacity. This is just another example of how little people care about marshals. I only ever attend club motorsport events rather than the big meetings and it's the sport at that level which I find the most entertaining. I've grown tired of ill mannered drivers (a small minority), feeling undervalued and putting my life in danger. Eventually meetings will be cancelled due to a lack of experienced marshals but in the mean time I can only vote with my feet,
Nigel

[martinparsons]

This will most likely get me a huge slagging off by other drivers, but at the end of the day we cannot go racing without the support of you guys marshalling. It needs the organising clubs to raise our race entries by a few pounds, with the money going directly to the marshals club. We have to pay to be there, the crowds have to pay to be there, but we cannot expect the marshals to pay to work.
Merry Christmas all, and thanks for your great work throughout the season.
MP

[Woolley]

Thanks for your comments, Martin. Actually you sound like just the sort of person I wouldn't want to be paying for our training. Despite our occasional moans about awkward drivers, the fact is the vast majority, like yourself, are friendly and appreciative. Ading to the fees of club racers is unfair, because they're the same as us and do it for the pure enjoyment. Where this sort of penny pinching does grate is when you see the motor homes and private cars in the professional areas of the sport, read about the budgets and see the sponsors and guests who have no interest in the sport lording it up with cocktails and smoked salmon in the hospitality units. If this sort of money is washing around the sport, then surely some of it could be appripiated for training, marshals' lunches and some contribution toward travelling and equipment costs. These jokers simply don't deserve our support any more, and my volunteering forms for next year will be almost exclusively in support of the clubbies. I implore my colleagues to do the same and send a message by voting with your feet.

Have a great New Year, whatever you decide to do.

[rick vaux]

MMMMMmmm nothing changes then hey.......I for one don`t mind mentioning that the BRDC training is well, little short of unimaginative, a mix of time wasting and patronising pushing of cars from gravel traps.... it costs me enough money during the year to marshal, let alone waste my time on a training day that consists of little training.Oh well, will no doubt end up at runway crossing for the year.....At least i will know what i`m doing there!

I may end up going 200 miles up to Oulton, or even down to Thruxton to enjoy there training days....Thats sais how much i feel bout Silverstone.....

[Tony_J]

Going back to Jim's reference to the MSA, it would be very interesting to see a copy of their report and accounts. One way or another they seem to be raking in a fair amount of money from clubs and competitors. What happens the large sums allocated by the FIA for the GP? I thought that this money was to be spent on marshal training and that was the excuse for not passing it on to the GP marshals!
Me thinks something smells. We are effectively subsiding British motorsport on a massive scale, both roundy raoundy and mud plugging. Our loyalty is being stretched close to the limit to support an industry that earns and spends mega millions and they can't even find a few quid for our training!!!!

[theracegypsy]

I thought the FIA had donated money for that as well Tony, thou perhaps only in relation to the number of marshals they "employed".
My personal opinion is that the organisations running club racing are the ones who have to organise the training for the MSA, but are also the ones with little money. The rich series organisers eg"F1" are not involveed and indeed seem to be activly engaged in trying not to use marshals.

I will ask the question of our American cousins and see how they finance training.

[blackx]

I agree with Woolley and will only be visiting clud events at club run venues,hillclimbs and such like(apart from the Festival of Speed) and will too vote with my feet.
This is by far the biggest statement we can make...

[brickkicker]

Rick I will say one thing about the last training day at donington by the BMMC it was well thought out and great fun as well as a good learning experience. We had the normal fire training as well as a display from the rescue crew and talk and show from a doctor (which was very useful) and made me think more about what I was doing and went away and got on a first aid course since then I have only had to call on it once at a car meeting at once at a bike meeting but it is worth knowing.
As for the marshals club having to pay the MSA to help them make money seems stupid. Guess this will force up subscriptions next year meaning even less people rejoining.
Nice to see a driver say he wouldn't mind paying more to help cover the costs but at the moment drivers are paying extortionate amounts already and if they have to pay more it may result in smaller grids and not spending the money on the car they need to (ie safety)

[Stephen Green]

Ok so lets try to think of ways we CAN get the money Jim talks about.

I have suggested to the BRSCC SE that we could use large meetings such as TOCA etc to have collecting bins for the Motor Racing Safety Fund. Has anyone thought to write to Sir Jackie Stewart and the Formula 1 teams to ask if they would be prepared to help either by lobbying or by making a direct contribution?

What about asking the organising clubs to fund training days thus easing the monetary drain on the BMMC?

Just a few thoughts...

[brickkicker]

Dont some clubs organising clubs run there own training days. The 750MC I think do and BRSCC (midlands) dont know about others)

[Stephen Green]

I think so. Certainly the BRSCC do at Brands Hatch. Don't they get help from the MSA as well though Jim and couldn't you combine a BMMC training day with an organisers day to save on costs or are you thinking of places where there is no overlap?

[Dave Brand]

My training has been with BMMC at Oulton. I'm happy with the standard of training provided & the way it is presented. Training days are enjoyable & right from my first day on the bank I felt that I was adequately trained, knew what was expected of me &, most important, that the people I was working with were equally well-trained.

The BMMC training days at Oulton are run in conjunction with BRSCC-NW & the volunteering form for the training days covers applications by non-BMMC members.

In reality, from the marshalling perspective, in the North-West BMMC & BRSCC are pretty much the same entity, with BARC-NW the 'third twin'; Oulton, Anglesey, no matter which club's organising the meeting, the same folks will be out there doing the donkey-work!

[Stephen Green]

I think it's much the same for the BMMC and BRSCC SE Dave, always the same faces!

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
I think it's much the same for the BMMC and BRSCC SE Dave, always the same faces!

Come to think of it, it's pretty much the same everywhere - any circuit I go to, even for the first time, from somewhere I hear the cry of 'Oh no, not you!'

[Stephen Green]

Have a great weekend and hope to catch up with you in person in the New Year.

[Gonfra]

Would the drivers or teams object to small levy (say £1) being put on entry fees to go towards Marshals training over the course of a season this will build up and the clubs can distribute it accordingly!

[G Tanner]

Bob

I understand that there is a charge for all worker training. Approx $10 - $20

Gary

[Peter Harding]

Just to clarify an earlier comment: 750MC do not run training sessions. The problem is we are not resisent at any circuit so couldn't get the support or organisation for national training. That said, you may have read that 750MC donated just under £3000 to Motorsport Safety Fund a few weeks ago in the name of two drivers we lost during the season. I hope that will be put to help with the overall training needs.

I thought that varios clubs organised training and, if quick enough, got a subsidy from the MSA. If thats true, have they just reduced there contribution, of maybe found that their insurers wouldn't allow their general cover to include training days so had to pass this message on to clubs.
I may try to ask some questions to get clarification.
I have been asked in the past to give ideas to improve training and, whilst I have some ideas, its not easy to find things each year to keep it interesting and useful (same problem with sex life at my age)
Why dont we all pass interesting suggestions to our club reps. (about training that is!!)

Pete

[blueflagger]

I'm not familiar with your history of financing training on that side of the pond but we Yankees often find success by getting sponsorship for our schools. Usually, money for the school may come from a car or tyre dealer. Even a well-off racer is a good source for us because they can write it off their taxes as a donation.

If you're looking for a location outside the racetrack, car dealerships work well, so do firefighter training grounds and technical schools. My region of SCCA uses Emergency Medical Technican trainees to teach CPR and basic first aid. This way, they get credit for teaching and we don't have to pay for their services, just the rent on the Annie dolls.

For fire training, we shoot off our oldest bottles of extinguisher, ensuring that the stuff we rely on at the track is of recent vintage. Refilling the bottles is a necessary evil anyway and is already budgeted for, so we might as well get use out of them. (These bottles belong to the club, not the circuit.)

We've discovered that notifying the media that we are going to teach volunteers how to put out car fires gets us on the news, which helps us get further sponsorship. Nothing is free, but I've been able to put on a school for less than $100 of the club's money and have the marshals pay only $15 each by finding sponsors to supply lunch, locations and other necessary evils. It works.

[Richard Sneader]

Blueflagger, That seems a good idea you all have in the States. Perhaps it could be tried here. Although Health and Safety may have different ideas on the fire training side and certainly on the enviromental side.
Rich.

[Jim Lamb]

Originally posted by Tony_J
Going back to Jim's reference to the MSA, it would be very interesting to see a copy of their report and accounts. One way or another they seem to be raking in a fair amount of money from clubs and competitors. What happens the large sums allocated by the FIA for the GP? I thought that this money was to be spent on marshal training and that was the excuse for not passing it on to the GP marshals!

I was lucky enough to attend a Trainers Seminar run by the MSA a couple of years ago. At the end of the weekend Allan Dean-Lewis who heads up the Training side for the MSA quoted a figure of approx (GBP)£87,000 spent on training approx 6000 officials in the previous year. He seemed tremendously proud of those figures!
[I voiced the opinion that I thought it was a very poor set of figures. If you do the sum,it works out at about £15 per head. Admittedly some people were getting a lot more and some a lot less than £15.]

From an accountant's point of view the MSA Training Dep't must be getting wonderful reports. From a practical and realistic point of view I would be ashamed to admit to spending such a paltry amount. Considering what training those figures encompassed. A Life saved or death prevented through it, worth more than £87K.
It's time the MSA moved on and got more proactive in sourcing outside revenue to support the Infrastructure that runs the Meetings of its member clubs. Not asking them to pay more towards Insurance Costs.

One of the reasons why I have walked away!

Jim Lamb

[EvilPumpkin]

It's a very good point Jim. I have a pretty good idea what an NTD costs here in Ireland - how much does an NTD cost in the UK and what's the cost breakdown? i.e. x amount for extinguishers; x amount for trainers (where applicable) etc.

The idea of sponsors is a great one - but at the same time, you may not be able to find a sponsor that will be able to stump up for the whole day. If you could have sponsorship for "sections" of the training day (and maybe persuade one of the circuit photographers to take some promo shots for them) it might be more successful?

[blueflagger]

EP, that's just what we do. The racetrack may supply coffee and doughnuts in the morning, the tyre supplier covers the cost of training materials, etc. We make sure that we use banners and signs so photos will include them.

Yes Rich, the environmental side is a big issue. It's always been a challenge to find appropriate locations. Using firefighter training grounds or the track itself works the best. Local schools and residential neighborhoods don't appreciate all that chemical powder on windy days. Also, we only work with petrol fires as they burn the cleanest and are relatively easy to control.