JV and BAR the cracks begin to show.....

[Super Tourer]

JV was particularly downbeat in his interview with Louise Goodman (ITV Sport).

JV was distinctly average again in the race, both Murray and Martin commented on this and MB also pointed out that JV's stock was falling as a result.

If a split is likely at the end of 2001, where will he go and will he be such a hot property.

I can't see Williams, or Mclaren taking him, Bennetton - Renault love him but frying pan to fire?, where else?

[DancingMachine]

i think he will replace mika in 2001..n he will be unbeatable.by the way BAR sux ..its not his fault..his engine blew......frrrrrrrrrrrr

[EERO]

Originally posted by Super Tourer


I can't see Williams, or Mclaren taking him, Bennetton - Renault love him but frying pan to fire?, where else?

Target Ganassi

[Jay]

I wouldn't mind that Eero.

The BARs were way off of it in today's race. JV managed to get it up to 6th only to have his engine blow, and Panis just blew. I haven't read the post race reports, but I am thinking Panis must have had a problem too.

If JV's only option for next year is Bennetton, I think he should just call it quits and retire with his millions. That's what I'd do.

As for BAR, maybe they'll get bought up by some other manufacturer (I can't imagine Honda wanting to stay there), and turned into yet another works team.

[Super Tourer]

I have read that Camel (fags) have been looking at a return to F1, but only want a 'title sponsorship' package.

The only teams currently available are Minardi and Prost.

How about a fag turn around and Camel owned by RJ Reynolds, buying BAR from BAT.......who I am sure would be desperate to sell to anybody to get out of the whole expensive mess they continue to find themselves in....

[kukuciau]

[content deleted for language.]

[Handle]

JV was distinctly average again in the race, both Murray and Martin commented on this and MB also pointed out that JV's stock was falling as a result.

Is this the same Murray and Martin who can't tell the difference between Villeneuve and his teammate because their cars look alike?

But seriously, Villeneuve's retirements due to technical problems outside his control have normally forced him out of the race from decent positions.

[Bononi]

He was very upset when he left the car.
He was acting like showing the "World" how much he was dissapointed with the car failures, read in my face :
"See ! This car is sick, and I'm going nowhere with it !
I need a car !!!!"

Team Bosses please take note !

[angst]

BAR have under performed but they will be up there before the end of this season. Neither Panis or Villeneuve are mugs, Panis brings with him experience of perhaps the most professional team in F1 and their ways of working. There is talent at the team and they have Honda behind them.Whether Villeneuve stays another season on the promise of further improvement is another question. But i think you would have to be an absolute buffoon to think that Villeneuve has gone from being a WDC to a no-hoper.

[Victor Broccoli]

Well, there is the Honda possibility. Honda seriously wants JV to be the driver that carries them to greatness. As we all know, Honda supplies both BAR & Jordan.

Think of this somewhat-plausible scenario:
A) There will most likely be a seat available at Jordan. Jarno Trulli is probably going to be recalled to Renault. This leaves an open seat at Jordan

B) JV uses the Honda connection to get a seat at Jordan.

This has happened before. Zonta used such connection to get the test seat at Jordan this year.

Personally, JV could do quite well in the Jordan. The team fits his style (him and Eddie Jordan are slightly similar in style, IMHO). The cars are proven quickly (Jordan will be #4 constructor this year, unless Sauber comes on strong quickly (please let it be Sauber).

It's a possibility, although I'd rather see Zonta in that seat. Or perhaps Marc Gene. Please let Gene get a good seat next year. Please?

[Orange]

Yeah Jacques,....time for you to say bye bye and f**k off from F1 scene. All your fans getting sick of you coz you disappoint them as you under performed badly!!!

and your driving style sucks


Hey kukuciau, I dont know where your head is, but I know that there is a fairly healthy Jaques fan contigency on this forum, none of which wants to see him go... I do have my qualms about BAR now, but your comments on JV are way out of line.

[TeddyG]

Thank you angst! At least someone here knows what they are talking about. I would like you all to look at what has happened this year to Jacques:

1.) Australia - (Looking for a 4th place finish) Ran into Ralph (not really his fault as many others have smacked into the back of the BMW's due to there engine/aerodynamic problem, which I am glad to see they fixed for Imola, either that or everyone has learned to keep their distance now)

2.) Maylasia - (Qualified 7th) Spun off in the rain in a particularly slippery area where three other cars went off as well (proving that it wasn't just his inability to drive in the rain)

3.) Brazil - (Looking at a 4th or 5th place finish) Had a differential break (most drivers quit when this happens) combined with another horrible pit stop but still manged a damn good 7th place!

4.) Imola - (Looking good again a probable finish in the points) Engine explodes!

Hopefully this will show all you JV doubters that he has been driving quite well with his BAR (alot better than Panis by the way) but has had simply terriable luck over and over again. You saw him smack his steering wheel because for the 4th race in a row he has been in the position to get points but some unlucky circumstance has blocked him every time.

As for you kukuciau maybe you should f**k off from the F1 scene since you obviously know nothing about it or JV. Sorry to say this but I don't like what you said at all! His REAL fans can see that it is not him underperforming but simply bad luck and the car letting him down.

Honda will not be happy with this as it was their engine that let JV down. I have to admit that BAR have been looking quite bad recently but have often had Jordan's number in the race but have just been unlucky not to finish ahead. But with BAR or Jordan JV needs to find a way to stay with Honda. They will get it right and provide a championship winning engine soon enough!

[TeddyG]

Thank you Orange. You said it in a much more mature way and I apologise to Kukuciau and all the other forum members but I was damn mad when I saw that posted!

[AlteredGrizz]

Kakaciau , Is it safe to say you are a Jacques Hater??

Jacques will be driving a Mclaren next year , for sure!!!!

[Bononi]

I would bet in Victor's opinion.
Honda is supporting Jordan, and Jordan is doing better than BAR...

JV in a JORDAN !!!!!

[AlteredGrizz]

He does know the Honda engine, so why not Jacques at Jordan! Maybe the Honda engineers have a say or the money to persuade Jacques to sign with Jordan.
The Jordan chassis is superior to the Reynard by Miles!

I hope Jacques gets his act together(or his luck) soon or maybe the Honda big bosses will looking towards O.Panis....just kidding...

[Super Tourer]

Hang on everybody...

We've heard a lot on these forums about how JV has been let down by BAR, 'cos they keep providing him with a ***p car.

But, didn't BAR think they were getting/ paying for a world champion who would help them to put together a race winning team.

If you look at M Schu, when he went to Ferrari they had equally ***p cars, that were scraping the odd win with Berger and Alesi, etc. Yet he worked hard with his engineers to bring that team up to the level it is now.

You can't say that BAR have skimped on anything yet still produce cars below average, is this because the feedback and input from their lead driver has led them this way, or does he just expect to turn up and driver, then moan...

Just a thought !!!!!!!!

[Run Free]

Originally posted by Super Tourer
Hang on everybody...

If you look at M Schu, when he went to Ferrari they had equally ***p cars, that were scraping the odd win with Berger and Alesi, etc. Yet he worked hard with his engineers to bring that team up to the level it is now.

You can't say that BAR have skimped on anything yet still produce cars below average, is this because the feedback and input from their lead driver has led them this way, or does he just expect to turn up and driver, then moan...

Just a thought !!!!!!!!

ST, you're forgetting (intentionally;-) that Ferrari was third in the championship for two years BEFORE TGF's arrival and had won races with Berger & Alesi.

Bar was started from zero.

SO you just CAN'T make comparison between JV e TGOF's situations. TGF has NEVER had such a challenge.

More, performing-wise Bar was faster in the previous two years than this year with Panis bringing all his experience as a test driver....

Just to replay to your thought!

[Bononi]

Super Tourer made a point here.

I just thought about TGF at Ferrari in his early years, and Senna in 93 at Mclaren/Judd (or Peugeot ???), when I saw him getting mad about the engine blow...

BAR started with some staff from Tyrrell and Reynard (A Champion chassis maker). I know, altough the circunstances are different in 3 situations, but the subject is the same:
A WDC driver wishing a good and reliable car !

Both of them have the same problem.

TGF was in a mission to help develop the car and he was succesfull. Senna just realised that no better engine would come to McLaren. And I think after 3 seasons, JV is realising the BAR engineers are getting no better.

[Valve Bounce]

Let's not get too hysterical about BAR. This will be team Honda next year, and once Jacques cools down, he will feel better, knowing that Honda will help BAR develop the aerodynamics. To be honest, we can't blame BAR when the engine blows. Having said that, the BAR of Panis was beginning to handle like a pig after 5 laps, and got worse as the race progressed. They will probably take a zillion digital photos of hte Ferrari, McLaren and Williams front wings, and sort one ot for themselves. Jacques is a great driver, make no mistake about that. There are some who like to rubbish F1 drivers when any opportunity arises, and these people are to be pitied. Jacques has been my favourite sine he joined Williams, and I won't desert him now. He will make some denigrators here eat humble pie, just like Ralf did.

[Victor Broccoli]

Well, there's a fundamental difference between the two situations.

When Schumacher came from Benetton to Ferrari, he also brought along Rory Byrne, Ross Brawn, and Jean Todt. Notice that Ferrari turned from a Minardi-esque team w/ success to the mega-bucks team it currently is. Quite simply, Schumacher brought his successful team and badged it red.

JV, on the other hand, brought a skiing buddy as a tester and his manager as team principal.

Now, if you're trying to build a successful team from scratch (as both drivers have done/trying to do)...who would you rather have:

A) Ross Brawn/Rory Byrne/Jean Todt
B) Patrick Lemarie/Craig Pollack

No knock against Pollack/Lemarie, but the first combination is a MUCH better group of personnel to bring into a team. It ensures some semblance of continuity and success. Something that, for the most part, is lacking from BAR.

VB - I would think, barring odd circumstances (pun intended), that the better team will be Team Honda next year. I would tend to think that would be Jordan, and that Honda would shift its best resources towards the better team. Including drivers.

Don't get me wrong...I have a LOT of respect for JV. I just don't believe the BAR is the proper chariot for JV to make a run at a race win, let alone a title. Especially considering the new-found flashness of Williams.

Just remember that two years ago, Jordan was doing well. Frentzen came VERY close to winning the title in '99. With improved power, JV, and a bit of luck, we could see a repeat. I just hope Honda, if they buy Jordan, that they do not sack Eddie. He would be sorely missed.

[Speed]

Originally posted by TeddyG
...smacked into the back of the BMW's due to there engine/aerodynamic problem, which I am glad to see they fixed for Imola, either that or everyone has learned to keep their distance now

They learned to keep their distance !

[kukuciau]

Originally posted by TeddyG
Thank you Orange. You said it in a much more mature way and I apologise to Kukuciau and all the other forum members but I was damn mad when I saw that posted!

hey man.don't say that....i mean don't say sorry. There's nothing wrong at all. It is very normal that these sort of things can happen when there are cohabitation among different personality. I am alrite man

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Victor Broccoli

VB - I would think, barring odd circumstances (pun intended), that the better team will be Team Honda next year. I would tend to think that would be Jordan, and that Honda would shift its best resources towards the better team. Including drivers.

Don't get me wrong...I have a LOT of respect for JV. I just don't believe the BAR is the proper chariot for JV to make a run at a race win, let alone a title. Especially considering the new-found flashness of Williams.

Just remember that two years ago, Jordan was doing well. Frentzen came VERY close to winning the title in '99. With improved power, JV, and a bit of luck, we could see a repeat. I just hope Honda, if they buy Jordan, that they do not sack Eddie. He would be sorely missed.

Victor, I think that during the race, Murray commented that BAR will be Honda next year. I firmly believe that Honda will buy BAR, and Jacques will be their No. 1 driver. And for all the doubters, How well do you think Jacques will have achieved if he had been driving for Williams this year?
I hate it when people will rubbish a good driver just bcause the car will not be any good.

[Run Free]

Originally posted by Victor Broccoli
Well, there's a fundamental difference between the two situations.[..]

Notice that Ferrari turned from a Minardi-esque team w/ success to the mega-bucks team it currently is.[...]

Now, if you're trying to build a successful team from scratch (as both drivers have done/trying to do [...]

I agree, Victor, there's a fundamental difference between the two situations. Schumacher DIDN'T build a successful team from scratch (as Villeneuve is trying to do) nor Ferrari "turned from a Minardi-esque team".

Bar was build from scratch. Ferrari was third in the Championship for two consecutive years BEFORE Schumacher's arrival. Then with him was second and then first. Not that scratch as a beginning (a team 3th in championship for two years) and not a so big improvement, isn't it?