Degree level mechanics

[minifox]

hi,
theres been alot of posts about how to get into motorsport in this forum but i wanted to ask more about the best place to go to study motorsport engineering

so yeah wheres the best place to study an undergraduates degree in motorsport engineering or mchanics something like that?

thanks in advance

lewis

[Ranald]

Hi Lewis,

I am biased due to my attending the University but Oxford Brookes really is very good. For motorsports engineering you won't find anywhere better, IMHO. The University is, as I understand, well regarded within the industry and has a reputation of producing good engineers.
The University due to its situation has excellent links to industry partly due to its location and partly due to the links the staff have made from previous employment. Talking of staff they really are good. infact if you get get far enough along in you studies you will be tought by none other than Geoff Goddard, on of the most succesful engine designers in the world (multiple F1, sportscar, touring car, NASCAR...championship winning engines under his belt).

Sorry if that was a little long and again I am a little (read alot) biased. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions regarding Brookes.

Ranald

[Smokey 6 litre]

Originally Posted by Ranald

I am biased due to my attending the University but Oxford Brookes really is very good.

Yeah, totally biased, its obvious the University of Hertfordshire is where you want to go...

Anyway, many universities are offering excelent course and the best thing to do is to get yourself into the ucas programe, research what uni's you want to apply to and then go for the open days for a look around.

50% of uni is the degree you finish with at the end, the other 50% is the life you live while at uni and that cannot be under estimated in importance. If your not happy you wont finish, and if you are happy you will work much harder and really enjoy it.

So in summary go to Hertfordshire, no sorry...check your options, go to open days and see which place suits you best. I wish you the best of luck.

[Ranald]

Well said Smokey. Enjoying the course and Uni' life really can't be under estimated as a factor for success in the degree. Make sure you have a good old root around the Universities during open days, also talking to current/former students is really helpful.

[ubrben]

My two cents would be that most "Motorsport Engineering" degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on with two or three good exceptions.

The fact is that many Uni's are offering them because it is good marketing. If they haven't got lecturers with direct experience of high level motorsport or a good background in vehicle dynamics and/or engine dynamics don't bother.

Brookes have this experience with Goddard amongst others, plus very good industry links. Hertfordshire have Howard Ash, who is ex-Leeds FS and has a Phd related to vehicle dynamics and was a lecturer at Brookes.

These are the two you should look at and anywhere else I'd focus on Mech Eng rather than Motorsport Eng because the Mech Eng degree will be more transferrable and much better than a crap Motorsport Eng degree for your future career.

Check the standard of the Formula Student team as well. A Mech Eng course with a good FS team (my situation) is better than a Motorsport Eng course with a mediocre FS team.

Ben

[knighty]

the above post is very true......be very careful.......many unis find it easier to attract students by converting their mechanical degrees to motorsports degrees......but the only change being the name!......Oxford Brookes and Hertfordshire are excellent reccomendations........I did 4 years at Hertfordshire with the 3rd year in industry, and it was the best thing I ever did, I spent 3 years in the motorsports industry after that and had a great time, last 4 years I have been doing road car stuff.

having a degree really helps you get employed in any form of engineering. I recently got told by my current client my contract would not be renewed in 3 months time due to a real downturn in work.......within 36 hours I had found a new job......apologies for the trumpet blowing

I would advise you do what I did, with the 3rd year in industry, then you come back for your finals........known as a "sandwich degree"

if you are crapping yourself at the prospect (cost) of university....as its real expensive nowdays.......go the motorsport mechanic route, as you will have more hands on experience with the cars, and just as much fun.

[PaulD]

Originally Posted by ubrben

...most "Motorsport Engineering" degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on ..

I would certainly agree with that. Most candidates that I have interviewed from motorsport degree courses do not have the depth of knowledge nescesary for an F1 design position. I generally look for a good MEng. degree in mechanical or aeronautical engineering, plus at least two years relevant post-grad experience outside motorsport.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Ranald

Hi Lewis,

Geoff Goddard, on of the most succesful engine designers in the world (multiple F1, sportscar, touring car, NASCAR...championship winning engines under his belt).

Ranald

errrr......thats not quite true......one F1 championship in 1994 - with the Ford HB V8 used by Schumacher in the Benetton.....and we all know how that championship was won - not due to a good engine!......he was not involved in the Jaguar sports car engines either, that was all done and dusted before he joined TWR.......but dont get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for his other achievements in race engine design........my bragging rights are nowhere near his!

[andy97]

Whatever course you do, make sure that you get out and about at weekends and during holiday periods and work in the industry, even if it is only at Club level. Get your hands dirty, rebuild cars, learn what race weekends are about, start off as a Gopher and try to work your way up as someone who is mechanically & electrically useful. Oh, & don't expect to get paid but the experience will be invaluable and will look good on your CV.

There's loads of people on courses that have not really worked on a race car outside of college but still expect to work for Williams. Make sure that you have experience to back up the certificate.

[Leighton Irwin]

Andy97: You beat me to it. The courses may be great but gain hands on experience as well. I started sweeping a shop floor. Became an Atlantic crew chief. Later designed wings, skirt systems and all sorts of aero stuff. Also the rear end a F4 car. Self taught with the help of Carroll Smith's books.
In todays racing world the more formal engineering you can get the better but hands on sure helps!

[Ranald]

Originally Posted by knighty

errrr......thats not quite true......one F1 championship in 1994 - with the Ford HB V8 used by Schumacher in the Benetton

His second championship winning engine isn't really credited to him. He was also the chief designer of Renaults last V10 (2005). He wasn't employed by Renault but rather sold the design to them. So that makes 2 F1 championship winning engines.

[minifox]

thanks for all the advice.
i already have two years experience one with a formula ford team and another with fred goddard racing. im staying on to do a levels and then il conisder my degree i just wanted to know before i apply for sixth form wether a degree is worthwhile so thanks alot everyone!

lewis

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Ranald

His second championship winning engine isn't really credited to him. He was also the chief designer of Renaults last V10 (2005). He wasn't employed by Renault but rather sold the design to them. So that makes 2 F1 championship winning engines.

sorry - thats just not true.........I used to work for TWR race engines and am more than aware what that V10 was.........Tom Walkinshaw "bought out" (some say screwed over) Hart race engines, employed John Hilton from Cosworth, and took the project in house at Kiddlington as TWR's own in house V10 project........it never raced in a car, just plenty of dyno time to prove various technologies.

when TWR went under, Flavio Briatorie Told John Hilton he needed an engine group at enstone to link up with the french side, so they brought the project over to renault, with about 10 people or so.......they didnt simply re-badge the engine a renault, more poached various techniologies.......John Hilton banned Geoff Goddard from his office at TWR, as the did not get on to say the least........so quite how Goddard could be responsible for that TWR/HART F1 engine is beyond me. Hilton was the F1 brains there.

The last F1 engine Goddard was involved in was the Yamaha-Judd used by Hill & Arrows in 1996........and to his credit Goddard did a fine job of sorting out a real mess of an engine.......but he certainly did not design the 2005 renault engine!

[Dan Sheerin]

If you're still considering reading for a degree in Motorsport Technology/Mechanics etc. then can I suggest that whichever University you go to you try and join the Formula Student team. I'm a member of the University of Hertfordshire's FS team and I am in charge of the packaging aspect of the car. It's alot of work but it's also very rewarding.

[xytrix]

I'm a Mechanical Engineering graduate from India, I've recently got the opportunity to attend Oxford Brookes for an MSc in Motorsport Engineering.Having graduated this year, I don't have any prior experience in the Motorsport Industry, but I'm really keen on doing this course. I've only read good things about the course content and staff. But that apart, I was wondering if someone could give me an idea about the employment prospects for Motorsport graduates from OBU ?

[EfiOz]

Originally Posted by ubrben

Check the standard of the Formula Student team as well. A Mech Eng course with a good FS team (my situation) is better than a Motorsport Eng course with a mediocre FS team.

Words of wisdom. I agree totally.

[littlefarny]

Brunel is where you want to go really

To be fair, I'm just about to get onto the Motorsport MEng programme after doing FoEng there, and I enjoy it, but look at the course content.

Oxford Brookes and Brunel are the main, degree-level, accredited ones that were recommended to me, but look at the course content and decide which is the one you're more interested in and see whether they get a lot of people into the kind of jobs you want.

[littlefarny]

An Update:

Williams F1 slightly misunderstood an email I sent them regarding choices for which masters route I should take and they kindly rang me up and offered advice for if I wasn't already dedicated on a Motorsport Engineering route.

They recommend to any student to undertake a Mech Eng course, and then if you so desire specialise in Motorsport at a Masters level, as opposed to taking a Motorsport degree. This is because the breadth of the course will help get you into aero and electrical roles, and apparently you can exhaust your employment options in 5-10 years in motorsport, so it also helps with finding a different career.

However, I'm already half-dedicated to Motorsport, and to be fair, the Mech Eng course that my Uni offers doesn't excite or stimulate like the motorsport one does, so I'm sticking with my original option.

Now...to decide on whether to do a masters at Brunel or Cranfield....

[minifox]

really didnt think this thread would have so much coverage!

[tristancliffe]

I would recommend anyone wanting to get into motorsport does either Mechanical Engineering or Aeronautical Engineering. ALL 'Motorsport Engineering' courses should be avoided.

I went to Brunel too - is the Formula Student team still sh**e?

[inamo]

The Brunel FS cars that I saw this year's competition did not look promising.

I think the point needs to be reiterated that a degree in motorsport alone will NOT get you a job. A degree is simply a starting point, what will get you employed is hard work and practical experience. If your university has a Formula Student team get involved with that and learn as much as you can. The skills you learn from being part of a team will probably far outweigh anything you hear in lectures.

Learn from other european universities too, the standard of some of their cars and teams is in a completely different league to many of the UK universities. Whilst budgets and departmental support play a part in that, they still have to make it all happen.

[littlefarny]

Oh, and I've heard that getting an article published in Racecar Engineering helps as well

[Pat_T]

[quote=tristancliffe]I would recommend anyone wanting to get into motorsport does either Mechanical Engineering or Aeronautical Engineering. ALL 'Motorsport Engineering' courses should be avoided.[quote]

What absolute rubbish tristan cliffe. What is important is not "how good" the FS team is, or whether the course is entitled Motorsport or Mechanical Eng, its what you make of your time there!!

If you are hard working and pro-active you can and will have a successful career in motorsport. It seems to me many people asking this question about the best course expect to complete the course and becasue it is supposedly the best to walk into a nice job with a top team!?

I will graduate a motorsport engineering course next july with: (touch wood) a first, a very good CV, having undertaken a fantastic placement year, and a lot of contacts in motorsport... I'll be 22 by then.