[WEC] New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread!

[seanyb505]

Lol holy cow how did I miss the Porsche armada!

For Honda I'm thinking it'll be a game of chicken with the gt3 getting an entry. Or rather if a gt3 entry comes from an Acura entry.

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Cadillac - don't see them there much beyond 1 or 2 years

Why? They have a really decent car and for sure Corvette will be interested in GT3 entries and hypercar entry will help with that due to new ACO rules

[Mike E]

Come on guys, we've got Isotta Fraschini and Vanwall, let's get this 7.6 litre V12 Delage on the track.

'The Delage D12 is a $2.3 million street-legal car made in France with two central seats in a fighter-jet style tandem configuration, a 7.6 L naturally aspirated V12 coupled with an electric engine to produce 1,100hp in the “GT” version and 1,010hp in the “Club” version, which is 200 pounds lighter.'

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...r-le-mans.html

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Come on guys, we've got Isotta Fraschini and Vanwall, let's get this 7.6 litre V12 Delage on the track.

'The Delage D12 is a $2.3 million street-legal car made in France with two central seats in a fighter-jet style tandem configuration, a 7.6 L naturally aspirated V12 coupled with an electric engine to produce 1,100hp in the “GT” version and 1,010hp in the “Club” version, which is 200 pounds lighter.'

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...r-le-mans.html

https://youtu.be/NfokjAeyMgE
That V12 sounds great.

[KlBD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Yeah you're missing like six Porsches bro haha!

I also think Acura/Honda will be there eventually.

I think the strength of car performance will dictate who the teams are who have the best customer offerings. And as the odd manufacturer and the small privateers depart, it'll be the strength of the customer market that impacts the car counts the most surely.

I'm honestly thinking that there will not be much of a customer market for this era of sportscar racing. There will be a few over time, but I think they will mostly come from LMDh cars. I think Ferrari releases at most 1-2 499Ps to customers over the entire course of its competition life.

My gut feeling is after a few years, less successful manufacturer programs will pull out, and the ones remaining that run strong LMDhs which are less expensive to produce parts for may wind down their factory-branded operations in favor of factory support at favored customer teams. And even then, if we see Porsches it may be a maximum of 4-6 worldwide considering Porsche themselves have stated they are not interested in Group C numbers of customers.

I don't think any OEM will want to give an LMH to a privateer, and of the outfits that could run one, it would basically entail scaling up their operation to the personnel and expertise levels of a factory program, like what Jota has done in hiring for the team running their 963.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by tomcug

Why? They have a really decent car and for sure Corvette will be interested in GT3 entries and hypercar entry will help with that due to new ACO rules

You're right, but I think it depends on who wants to pay to run the caddy in wec. Corvette will always have a space, and aco would be wanting to send a strong message to reject Corvette from entering Le mans. Aco's foot would be firmly in the gun sight if they said no caddy=no Corvette entry.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by KlBD

I'm honestly thinking that there will not be much of a customer market for this era of sportscar racing. There will be a few over time, but I think they will mostly come from LMDh cars. I think Ferrari releases at most 1-2 499Ps to customers over the entire course of its competition life.



My gut feeling is after a few years, less successful manufacturer programs will pull out, and the ones remaining that run strong LMDhs which are less expensive to produce parts for may wind down their factory-branded operations in favor of factory support at favored customer teams. And even then, if we see Porsches it may be a maximum of 4-6 worldwide considering Porsche themselves have stated they are not interested in Group C numbers of customers.



I don't think any OEM will want to give an LMH to a privateer, and of the outfits that could run one, it would basically entail scaling up their operation to the personnel and expertise levels of a factory program, like what Jota has done in hiring for the team running their 963.

Well I'm guessing the Ferrari will be the only one of the Hypercar offered after this year, SGR is offered and one sold as well but another year running seems unlikely. Peugeot makes the right noises but would any one really want one? Ferrari can sell each car at the end of the year, build new and repeat for at least 10 cars. Someone will buy it to polish and keep it in the collection, especially a winner. Wouldn't be surprised if they get one privateer/semi-works car going, especially if IMSA accepts it.

Caddy I fully expect to sell at least one if not more as they have with the DPi, and buyers know they're getting a set-up product. Porsche, well they build cars people want and will collect. Beyond that, maybe Lamborghini for a couple cars but maybe after they run and get a new chassis for the next season.

[joeb]

With the discussions of GT3 cars and grid space going in to the future, could we ever have a similar decision for Hypercar? By that I mean, could we get into a spot where Hypercar entrants are turned away to maintain some space for GT's on the WEC grid?

And if we have that situation in a few years what will turned away entrants do? Attempt IMSA? or will there be pressure to allow Hypercars in ELMS and possibly ALMS?

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by joeb

By that I mean, could we get into a spot where Hypercar entrants are turned away to maintain some space for GT's on the WEC grid?

I doubt it. Everything I've read states that hypercar is the priority.
If you have a hypercar, you'll be on the grid (unless there are so many that the overall grid limit is reached).

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

I doubt it. Everything I've read states that hypercar is the priority.
If you have a hypercar, you'll be on the grid (unless there are so many that the overall grid limit is reached).

I just posed a similar question in the GT3 thread on a theme of not all hypercar entries being equal.

I think the ACO need to be really careful and remember the true advantage they have is that it's multi-class racing. Not saying I don't understand the rationale for it, but they're set to strip away two classes within two years.

They better hope Toyota don't keep dunking on everyone going forward, as there's only going to be one other race within the race to watch now.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by joeb

Or will there be pressure to allow Hypercars in ELMS and possibly ALMS?

I think giving LMP2 continued headliner stratus in those series is the ACO's way of making up for kicking them out of WEC and to ensure that there will be enough LMP2 entries around to have a viable class at Le Mans.

On the other hand, it would really make sense to open up ELMS to Hypercars for at least two different reasons:

1. there's more demand for WEC races than spaces on the calender, especially in Europe. So allowing Hypercars in ELMS would give Porsche and BMW a chance to race their cars in front of a home audience (assuming ELMS would go back to the Nürburgring or another German track).

2. The Hypercar class will be more stable in the long term if older cars can be sold on to privateers and if there is a pipeline for new teams to come into WEC. Granted, LMP2 can play the role of that pipeline to a certain degree as well, but its still a big jump to go from what is essentially a spec class to the much more open and hybrid-powered LMH or LMDh cars.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I just posed a similar question in the GT3 thread on a theme of not all hypercar entries being equal.

I think the ACO need to be really careful and remember the true advantage they have is that it's multi-class racing. Not saying I don't understand the rationale for it, but they're set to strip away two classes within two years.

They better hope Toyota don't keep dunking on everyone going forward, as there's only going to be one other race within the race to watch now.

It's an interesting one to muse upon, especially for those 'weaned' on Group C when it was effectively all prototypes (although there were different classes). I've long said that I would personally be perfectly happy to have a full field of prototypes. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy watching GTs or that I don't like the variety they provide, but my memory remains of GT's being added back in '93 after the likes of Balestre did his best to destroy top class prototype racing. Others will of course definitely disagree.....

[joeb]

Thinking about this slightly different way, do grid caps actually reduce pressure on any of the manufacturers to sell customer cars? If there is not enough room for customers to participate then the likes of bmw, Honda, Ferrari, or whoever else may not be too concerned about selling customer cars. But if there were more spots on the grid, or more series to run the cars in there could be a larger demand from customers on the manufacturers themselves.

[Adam43]

Tyre talk moved to where the other tyre talk was: https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157488

[Simmi]

Autohebdo reporting a Hyundai WEC programme could be starting up: https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/...me-en-wec.html

[Coach Ep]

English summary (kinda of): https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/...e-reports-say/

Where's the Hyundai WRC program run out of?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

English summary (kinda of): https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/...e-reports-say/

Where's the Hyundai WRC program run out of?

Alzenau, Germany.

Been rumours for a while that the WRC programme was on, let's say, fairly shaky ground. Hasn't seemed a happy camp in years. Signing Abiteboul I guess hinted at more longevity perhaps but also maybe he's a good guy to transition to the track. Who knows.

WRC and WEC are the two primary championships I follow. Hyundai leaving rallying would be a massive blow.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Alzenau, Germany.

Been rumours for a while that the WRC programme was on, let's say, fairly shaky ground. Hasn't seemed a happy camp in years. Signing Abiteboul I guess hinted at more longevity perhaps but also maybe he's a good guy to transition to the track. Who knows.

WRC and WEC are the two primary championships I follow. Hyundai leaving rallying would be a massive blow.

Danke schön! Maybe they'll do both championships?

You think Richard Dean has made some calls already?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Autohebdo reporting a Hyundai WEC programme could be starting up: https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/...me-en-wec.html

Would be great to see, but what would timeframe be on this? 2026?

[broadrun96]

Well that's only been smoking since Mulsanne Mike posted they access his pages how many years ago now?

[veeten]

Remember, the original idea was for them to be involved in a hydrogen powered racer. If this is now off the table and a hybrid LMH/LMDh is the choice, then expect the Genisis V8 to power it. Be it WEC or Weather Tech, it would be a welcome entry.

My question would be about the chassis,... Home grown or which manufacturer?...

[Mike E]

Is the WRC hybrid system a spec part or do they all build their own?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Is the WRC hybrid system a spec part or do they all build their own?

Spec hybrid.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Danke schön! Maybe they'll do both championships?

It surprises me for years Hyundai is their motorsport brand (WRC + TCR). Why not doing something with Kia?

[broadrun96]

More likely they would brand it Genesis as that’s their new premium branding with SUVs and sedans, and a Shooting Brake in the lineup

And turbo 3.6 V6 as that’s the newer premium over 2.5 turbo base