Champ Car Television to be on ABC/ESPN for 2007/2008

[Mystery]

Hear hear....

Great to hear about CC getting what sounds like good TV time in the USA, although in my heart of hearts I can't help but wonder whether the US public will take to it like they did pre-split. They are great drivers but I just can't see Bourdais or Wilson becoming stars - not that they don't deserve it but I can't see the interest. Kathy Legge got most publicity this season by driving up a tree so I can't quite see how the series will get it together.

But that said I hope it does work out and that someone will do a deal with Sky, Eurosport or Motors so we get to see it all.

Veering a bit OT here but I consider myself a fan of both the IRL and CC and I would love either both series to thrive in different directions (much like Superbikes and Moto GP do in bikes) or for re-unification to end the whole sorry mess.

Some of my most memorable motor racing moments have been watching these two series - probably more so than F1 - and it would be a desperate shame for either to fade and die. There is an enormous history and heritage behind US OW racing and it's a shame that people have turned their backs on the sport to a degree, possibly due to the split and other factors, and in my ideal dream world I would love that those whose cheque books are kindly helping the series survive put that heritage and history first and do whatever they have to do for the good of the sport.


Here endeth the lesson

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

This is a champcar section of this forum and it seems those select few on the anti champcar slant repeatedly enter here and slam every single deal champcar does. Why would you not expect your ideas to be challenged if you repeatedly post negative views on champcar in a champcar forum?

Jeez, mountainstar, take your blinkers off. JohnSCC is negative toward both series. He's an equal opportunity pessimist.

Seriously, guys, John is trying to think this through critically. I believe that it's likely to be a time buy (for 2007 anyway), as history supports this. I don't see ABC suddenly finding money for broadcasting something that other networks wouldn't pay for.

That said, I believe Robin Miller is not too far off in his assertion about the total paid to the IRL, too, and that's including a race that garners 5 to 6 times the next best rated other open wheel race in the US.

My feeling is that this can't help but be a positive for the series, as I believe that Speed TV has proven to be the death of all non-Daytona racing. And the contract likely has performance provisions for ratings and future ABC payment for rights. I just think it unlikely to start out as a paying contract.

I'm willing to let the current discussion stand, but another ad hominem attack and this thread gets whacked. Don't push it.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Mystery

Hear hear....

Great to hear about CC getting what sounds like good TV time in the USA, although in my heart of hearts I can't help but wonder whether the US public will take to it like they did pre-split. They are great drivers but I just can't see Bourdais or Wilson becoming stars - not that they don't deserve it but I can't see the interest. Kathy Legge got most publicity this season by driving up a tree so I can't quite see how the series will get it together.

Yes, I think it has a way to go before we get back to the level of the pre split days. But champcar has done much to lay cornerstones in each area to build a foundation on. In terms of the motor racing marketplace, I think there is a lot of potential out there, because I see the nascar product getting stale and overcooked.

[norman-normal]

We have nothing against sadist John, but we think that you might be happier with more submissive, gullible, souls.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

...we think that you might be happier with more submissive, gullible, souls.

Look, the sooner you realize that I'm your master, the happier we'll all be.

[Leighton Irwin]

While the ABC/ESPN deal is probably good for the US I wonder how it will affect Can. The Buffalo ABC station is notorious for not carrying motorsport so if you have cable in the GTA you may be out of luck. I have satellite so I am ok. No ESPN though. TSN will probably carry the races but it may be at 3am.

[norman-normal]

[B]AutoWeek[B]: "IRL officials weren't keen on the news. The league's deal with the Disney owned TV networks has been one of its advantages over CART/Champ Car for the past five years"
"its a time buy of $250,000. per hour" says IRL. "if thats true, Champ Car will spend roughly $6 million for its package, plus production cost. Thats about the equivalent of completely funding two cars; the potential benefits obviously exceed that."

Not exactly earth shaking news, but enough for the IRL to give marching orders to all their under cover scribes. their cheerleaders have been getting a lot of time off...............little to cheer about.

[paul-collins]

Yes, one has to wonder how the IRL became privy to details of negotiations between CC and ABC.

[luke]

Paul, perhaps Paranoia?.......

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Yes, one has to wonder how the IRL became privy to details of negotiations between CC and ABC.

No evidence to suggest that they are privy. Just numbers they are sprouting off.

It's like taking Pepsi's word on the numbers of a deal put together buy Coca Cola.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by norman-normal

[B]AutoWeek[B]: "IRL officials weren't keen on the news. The league's deal with the Disney owned TV networks has been one of its advantages over CART/Champ Car for the past five years"
"its a time buy of $250,000. per hour" says IRL. "if thats true, Champ Car will spend roughly $6 million for its package, plus production cost. Thats about the equivalent of completely funding two cars; the potential benefits obviously exceed that."

Not exactly earth shaking news, but enough for the IRL to give marching orders to all their under cover scribes. their cheerleaders have been getting a lot of time off...............little to cheer about.

If one assumes for a moment those numbers are correct, let's not forget the revenue generated by ads and race director. We know bridgestone just confirmed they will continue to purchase ad time on champcar broadcasts and I would assume Ford and Mazda will continue to do so as well. Whether the broadcast runs at a slight loss, break even, or profit, as said the potential benefits obviously exceed that.

[JohnSSC]

The IRL folks probably know the costs involved here just as much as Miller would. Without the 500, they would be buying time as well.

Paul, you are right, I am an equal opportunity pessimist. Others may call it something else but I tend to think of it as critical thinking - that is my style and many of my jobs over the years have called for me to lean heavily on that fuctionality. It is not a style that lends itself to winning the popularity contest, but there you are - it how I view things like these sorts of "deals."

Further on point: there is ample room for discussion here how Speed TV has gone from being the great proselytizer of all motorsports to nothing more than being just one more "revenue stream" with a much more focused target audience. Right now, I wonder where the $$ are coming from and how long the $6 - 10 million per season can be accessed if the buy continues beyond this season.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

The IRL folks probably know the costs involved here just as much as Miller would.

Well if you take the prelude to a merger line, maybe the IRL may know some costs. After all, it was the IRL offices that originally leaked and blurted the merger news all over town back in January or so. So no real surprise Autoweek's pipeline into their offices are still intact.

Still, until someone can establish as fact any figures here at best it's all speculative.

[paul-collins]

Next time the thread gets deleted, and warnings escalate.

Knock it off.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

The IRL folks probably know the costs involved here just as much as Miller would. Without the 500, they would be buying time as well.

Right now, I wonder where the $$ are coming from and how long the $6 - 10 million per season can be accessed if the buy continues beyond this season.

It's possible the irl is buying time already since their ratings have been pretty poor at times. It has been rumored that the irl is in such situation and that contract was renegotiated recently so one wonders what that contract consists of. One can speculate based on their rating numbers and a good assumption would be that of a time buy thereby removing the financial burden from ABC.

We do need to remember if a time buy costs x, there is also revenue y that is generated. Combining the 2 will show the Actual costs, implying otherwise suggests the cost of the still rumored champcar time buy is money thrown down a black hole never to be seen again and there is no benefit and revenue realized from such endeavor.

[JohnSSC]

As I noted before though, with the ratings CC has gotten (.1s and less) advertisers are not exactly going to be shoveling $$ into CC's coffers - or the IRL's as their ratings have not been any better. It could well be that the IRL takes in revenue from ABC for the 500 and buys the balance of the season. How that nets out, I am not sure.

I understand that the advertising sold will offset the cost of the buy. I wonder then how much revenue is coming in and also what the net amount of that revenue is - my understanding is that often a broker (not unlike those in the group insurance business) will bring players to the table. The broker gets a cut off the top. so there are costs involved in obtaining the advertising that reduce the revenues that will offset the purchase price of the time.

We know the figure to be in the $6 - 10 million range for the buy. At least initially they are likely going to have to lowball rates for the first race or two. If ratings warrant it, then they can increase the rate as the season progresses. My point is: How long will KK/GF continue to shoulder the shortfall between revenue and costs?

[indycool]

Not only brokers, John, but ad agencies get a percentage, too.....usually that "cut" is taken into consideration with pricing, but it's hard telling with package buys, etc., where it all goes.

[enemy-ace]

I suppose the Atlantic series will probably be shown on ESPN2, which would be unfortunate for Canadian viewers. I wonder if the Champ Car website will still be broadcasting the races? The Atlantic races are terrific and I would miss them terribly.
How does this deal affect Race Director, if at all, I wonder?

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

We know the figure to be in the $6 - 10 million range for the buy. At least initially they are likely going to have to lowball rates for the first race or two. If ratings warrant it, then they can increase the rate as the season progresses. My point is: How long will KK/GF continue to shoulder the shortfall between revenue and costs?

I don't think we "know" any such thing, but we can accept that as being a rational amount.

ALMS has done time buys for their broadcast as well, and even with the finders fees involved, they have been able to cover most, if not all, of their expenses in this regard - mostly through their partners' sponsorship (Porsche and Mazda in particular). This was (is?) probably the most significant place that Ford and Bridgestone were able to provide their support. I doubt that will change much.

Mountainstar, your point is pretty much the way I envision it, too. Ratings are the same, moreorless, across the board, with the exception of Speed, about which I've made my stance known. I think that the IRL gets paid, in reality, ONLY for the 500 - how the financials represent it is ultimately down to business relations, and I think that if ABC were to represent that they were paying for races that get around a 1 rating for one series, they'd be forced to do the same for races that get a similar rating for another series.

I do, however, admit that for this year specifically it is quite possible that - where the cable races for IRL might get carried at no (additional) cost - the cable races for CC will likely cost the series money this year until my thesis about Speed being the ratings black hole is proven. If the ratings for cable CC races remain the same on ESPN(2) as they were on Speed, I'd say that's a colossal failure on the part of CC.

[Flatspot]

I am actually finding this all very amusing.

Do the hows and ifs really matter? Bottom line is that Champ Car has significantly improved their TV coverage package for the next couple of seasons. Good on them.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Flatspot

I am actually finding this all very amusing.

Do the hows and ifs really matter? Bottom line is that Champ Car has significantly improved their TV coverage package for the next couple of seasons. Good on them.

Exactly. Probably it doesn't matter since we don't have the contract in hand to examine it, so any dollar figures generated are purely speculative.

To make a point about the ratings I point to 2005. That summer we had a few races on network tv and the ratings gradually grew from .6 to .8 to 1.0 and as soon as we dropped to Speed at Denver we fell to .2. So I think when it all shakes out in 2008 with all races being on ABC channels it's going to be a huge benefit with having that continuity.

[The Snout]

A lot of selling going on, not much buying

[norman-normal]

Me, I'm trying to find out how to profit from critical thinking.

[icemachine]

Norman, all you have to do is work for a Detroit based automotive company for a few months, then quit and start your own consultancy firm. Get a contract back at the same company, and you're rolling in the dough.

[norman-normal]

I'm not leaving California, we got Arnold Schwarzenegger; Detroit's only got GM & Ford.
Besides I'm retired