Should Ralf be sacked

[OZ_HCR32]

Im pretty new to the forum, and am really enjoying it

There seems to be a lot of threads questioning the ability of Coulthard, JV, Fisi, whether Sam Michael is up to the job etc etc. Its interesting to read other ppl thoughts...but

I cant get over how Ralf Schumacher's performance is never questioned. Perhaps im too quick to forget the races where he gets it right, but in my eyes he has always been bettered by his teammates, and this year he has been truly ordinary.

Now the first season a driver has with a new team i usually go pretty easy on them...but Ralf seems to get the good drives, and his competitiveness is never questioned???

Am i wrong

[Skam85]

While you aren't 100% wrong, I can't say I agree with you, as Ralf has been good so far thias year, it is just that Trulli has been better. No reason to sack someone.

[JeremySmith]

No he should not...

[Dutton]

I think it has come to down to Jarno doing a much better job of qualifying, but otherwise there hasn't been an enormous difference.... He hasn't been great, I would certainly agree with that, but I'm not sure sacking him si the best plan.

He is pretty decent, as I understand things, at doing the testing development bit - so, hrrrmm, I don't think firing after THIS season would really achieve much.

[OZ_HCR32]

Ok sacked is a bit harsh. I was tryign to make a point...but it seems strange to me that other peoples performace is always called into question, and Ralf seems to be free of the all such talk?

[Dutton]

Well, part of it, I think, may be that people tend to criticise poor performances more in people they believe/know can do a better job.

With Ralf, well, we don't really expect THAT much.... we know that, on his day, he can be very impressive but, on the whole, he tends to underperform and so on.

In previous years it was talked about, but this year is perhaps a critical one.......we are just losing faith in the possibility he might step up a level.

A thought, at least.

[Not Rated]

In the last five races he has scored 8 points to Trulli's 5, so I don't know what you mean.

[GTRMagic]

Well if you ignored the facts, you could blame Ralf for causing the Indy GP disaster

[Paarma]

Ralf is reasonably good, sometimes excellent, but to be honest I think Toyota has sacked better drivers than him. Still, his last name is Schumacher, I tend to believe that means more than it should. But to be honest he hasn't been a complete disaster, I could imagine him driving another season for them. How long was his contract again?

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

...but it seems strange to me that other peoples performace is always called into question, and Ralf seems to be free of the all such talk?

I don't think this is true. I think he has had his fair share of detractors over recent years and certainly on this forum there has been some very strong criticism.

Originally Posted by Dutton

I think it has come to down to Jarno doing a much better job of qualifying, but otherwise there hasn't been an enormous difference....

Agreed. Ralf has had some difficulties in qualifying, not all of his own making, and regularly has to be one of the early qualifiers. In the races he has several times been much closer to Jarno's race pace. Don't forget, either, that Trulli has been a bit of a revelation over the last couple of seasons.

Originally Posted by Paarma

Still, his last name is Schumacher, I tend to believe that means more than it should.

Don't agree with this. I think this is a handicap, since it inevitably leads to comparisons with his brother. In fact, I also suspect it affects Ralf in a psychologically adverse way.

Ralf has won more GPs than many on the grid and I haven't counted him out yet. He certainly still deserves a place, and I don't think he has done anything this year to warrant sacking. I hope Toyota keep him as team mate to Jarno, next season. Potentially, they make a very fine driver pairing.

[Don K]

According to this thread, Ralf has made 22 overtakings so far this year.
Only one driver overtook more cars than he did.

[BSchneiderFan]

If I qualified poorly in a fundamentally decent car, I daresay I'd overtake quite a few people too.

[Logrence]

I think he should, but that's just because I think he's wasting a decent seat at Toyota.

[Menelaos]

I think Toyota can do better. Trulli is far better, and always has been so in my opinion.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

I cant get over how Ralf Schumacher's performance is never questioned.

How long have you been reading this board? I've just come back from a rather extended 'posting holiday' but as I recall there are a lot of people on 10/10s who are first on board the 'We Hate Ralf' bandwagon when it comes rolling past.

Considering he's had several solid points finishes and is a proven race winner, suggesting that he should be sacked is ludicrous. When I saw the title of this thread, I thought "Wow, he must have done something really awful", but as far as I can tell the only crime is not being as quick as his team-mate (mainly in qualifying - Trulli's very fast over one lap, but Ralf is good race driver, it's qualifying lower down that's really let him down this season). I don't think Ralf's doing enough this season to justify the rather excessive salary he's getting (although I guess a driver is worth whatever a team is willing to pay him), but he is collecting points and you can't really criticise that.

[OZ_HCR32]

Like i said im new to these waters. And my first surprise was how critical ppl were being of Fisi, JV etc etc. In my mind whilst i dont think he should be shown the door, if the topic was to move to engandered species i think Ralf should get a mention before Fisi, JV etc etc.

Still, it will be interesting to see what happens with regards to driver line ups next season. I would be surprised if Toyota make changes for next season, but i would expect that he starts to show some genuine speed, and this time next year he is sharing results with Jarno

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

The only thing letting Ralf down is his qualifying at the moment, Trulli is somehow able to get the car right up there on Saturday and then salvage a few points with racecraft as he falls down the order.

Once Ralf sorts out what is needed to make his Toyota quick for that one lap I think we'll see the situation even out between Trulli and himself.

[Logrence]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Like i said im new to these waters. And my first surprise was how critical ppl were being of Fisi, JV etc etc. In my mind whilst i dont think he should be shown the door, if the topic was to move to engandered species i think Ralf should get a mention before Fisi, JV etc etc.

Still, it will be interesting to see what happens with regards to driver line ups next season. I would be surprised if Toyota make changes for next season, but i would expect that he starts to show some genuine speed, and this time next year he is sharing results with Jarno

Welcome, by the way.

Fisichella is a new one, but generally Jacques Villeneuve, Michael Schumacher and David Coulthard are the dead horses that we generally enjoy flogging on here. Michael and David not so much at the moment, because David is doing well and Michael isn't. For some reason people only seem to criticise Schumacher Snr when he's successful. Perhaps at the moment they're just snickering behind their monitors. Jacques, on the other hand, isn't doing very well at the moment, so feel free to get stuck in.

I imagine Ralf will get some sort of kung-fu kick up the backside at some point, but I think Jarno felt the benefits early on from moving to Toyota a race or two before the end of last season. Those extra months will have done him the power of good in getting to know the team and the car. All the drivers who have moved to new teams this year seem to have struggled, hopefully towards the end of the season we'll start seeing the best of them again. Fisi, Montoya, Ralf, etc, etc.

[N I Tram]

Is Ralf's race pace actually comparing favourably with Trulli's? Or just less disfavourably than his qualifying pace? I agree that Ralf is getting a fairly easy ride at the moment - compare his situation to Fisichella's in particular. Most would agree that Alonso is a better driver than Trulli, and he certainly started the season with much more confidence, yet Fisichella is doing a better job against his rival despite vastly inferior luck, and yet he's getting chewed out and Ralf is largely escaping criticism.

Several of Ralf's drives this season have been appalling, and not just qualifying. He made the Nurburgring incident a lot worse by hitting a Ferrari under braking (before Webber and JPM clashed), and then spun out all on his own later. He made no impression at Imola or Melbourne, and Trulli was reasonably competitive in the former, and only inherited 4 points relative to Trulli in Canada because of Jarno's brake problems. I'm not convinced he would be able to beat Panis consistantly this season, and he's almost certainly being over-paid by Toyota, probably getting more than Trulli. Again, due to his last name.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Menelaos

I think Toyota can do better. Trulli is far better, and always has been so in my opinion.

Maybe Toyota can do better, but then they failed to keep Salo and McNish together for their second season which did favours to neither the team nor the drivers. They then, at best, trod water, so I do hope they achieve some stability by keeping Jarno and Ralf together.

Yes, I agree Trulli is better now, but not by as much as his qualifying positions suggest, and I certainly don't think he has 'always' been better.

Originally Posted by Logrence

Fisichella is a new one, but generally Jacques Villeneuve, Michael Schumacher and David Coulthard are the dead horses that we generally enjoy flogging on here. Michael and David not so much at the moment, because David is doing well and Michael isn't. For some reason people only seem to criticise Schumacher Snr when he's successful. Perhaps at the moment they're just snickering behind their monitors. Jacques, on the other hand, isn't doing very well at the moment, so feel free to get stuck in.

I imagine Ralf will get some sort of kung-fu kick up the backside at some point, but I think Jarno felt the benefits early on from moving to Toyota a race or two before the end of last season. Those extra months will have done him the power of good in getting to know the team and the car. All the drivers who have moved to new teams this year seem to have struggled, hopefully towards the end of the season we'll start seeing the best of them again. Fisi, Montoya, Ralf, etc, etc.

Good post Log, but your last sentence does leave me a little perplexed by your earlier post when you said that you thought Ralf should be sacked as he is wasting a decent seat.

Originally Posted by N I Tram

........ he's almost certainly being over-paid by Toyota, probably getting more than Trulli. Again, due to his last name.

I agree that Trulli is proving better value, and is almost certainly paid less than Ralf. I suspect however, that this is down to their respective track records at the time of signing (Ralf 6 wins, Jarno 1) and has nothing to do with the 'Schumacher' tag, which as I have already stated is probably a millstone around Ralf's neck.

[Raven]

Trulli is indeed out-performing Ralf, although Ralf is being paid a lot more money by the team. That can't sit well and unless he turn it around, I can't see his contract being extended.

I would like to have been able to see what da Matta would've made of this years Toyota.

[Logrence]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Good post Log, but your last sentence does leave me a little perplexed by your earlier post when you said that you thought Ralf should be sacked as he is wasting a decent seat.

Well, at least people pay attention

No, really - I would like to see Ralf fulfill the potential he's promised since 1997 - I'm not sure if he ever will, however. I'll be impressed if he does, like I'll freely admit to being impressed with Alonso this season - I didn't think he would be as good as he is, my first comment was a little more tongue-in-cheek than anything.

They should at least knock a chunk off his wages, though.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

If I qualified poorly in a fundamentally decent car, I daresay I'd overtake quite a few people too.

That could be down to the current qualifying rules, it is going to work for some drivers and not others. DC hates it.

[BootsOntheSide]

Ralf hasn't had any particular problem with one-lap qualifying though. And remember that when JPM joined him at Williams in 2001 Ralf was paid a lot more, even though all he'd won was the Formula Nippon title, compared to JPM winning F3000 (having come close as a rookie), ChampCars (as a rookie) and the Indy 500 (as a rookie, though admittedly against a weaker field than today). I'm not convicnned he would have GOT to F1 on his pre-F1 CV without the marketing kudos of his name, and he certainly doesn't belong in a top team. Hardly surprising that he's won more races than Trulli when you compare the cars they've had over the years - Jarno joined Jordan at the wrong time, and undoubtedly left Renault at a time where he'd've bene sure of good resutls if Flavio wanted him.

[John Turner]

I was only identifying the fact that he was a proven and experienced race winner, Boots, and I think potentially, he is (or pehaps that should be was!) better than his results show. I agree about Trulli; I would have liked to see him stay alongside Alonso at Renault, particularly as we actually had a pair of team mates that got on well.