T Break thread 2023

[grantp]

IIRC someone built an Ultima with one of it's objectives being to take the 0-100-0 MPH record. Tricky to do of course because it's mostly down to traction for starting and stopping.

[Gerard C]

Grant, in the old days this record was held by the Sheby Cobra, it was the sales argument.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by grantp

IIRC someone built an Ultima with one of it's objectives being to take the 0-100-0 MPH record.

9.8 secs I believe and that on road tyres in a road legal car driven to and from the test circuit, insane performance. Bob Light regularly touched 170 mph going through Avon rise down to Quarry at C/Combe in his B6 Stealth which was developed from the Ultima. I seem to remember the Ultimas being banned from various race series because of their dominance.

[The Fat Clerk]

Originally Posted by grantp

IIRC someone built an Ultima with one of it's objectives being to take the 0-100-0 MPH record. Tricky to do of course because it's mostly down to traction for starting and stopping.

I would have thought one of those 'electric' things would be good for that.

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

I would have thought one of those 'electric' things would be good for that.

I'm not so sure.

Yes, the quickest of the electric cars would certainly be in the running for the 0 - 100. But for the 100 - 0 they might struggle, as they all weigh about the same as the titanic, and that's a lot of inertia to shed from 100mph.

The aforementioned Ultimas can be built to weigh around a ton, a figure that the electric stuff can't get anywhere near.

Wonder if any of the electric stuff has been tested for these parameters?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by grantp

IIRC someone built an Ultima with one of it's objectives being to take the 0-100-0 MPH record. Tricky to do of course because it's mostly down to traction for starting and stopping.

10.3 seconds and here is the onboard video (in an Ultima GTR).
https://youtu.be/2XRTP8_F4Ps

Storyline here: https://www.ultimasports.co.uk/Recor...3.97%20seconds.

The fastest 0-100mph EV 's .....Tesla Model S Plaid that accelerates from 0 to 100 mph in 3.5 s. The second is Rimac Nevera 1408 kW that accelerates from 0 to 100 mph in 3.6 s and the third fastest car is Pininfarina Battista that accelerates from 0 to 100 mph in 3.7 s.
https://www.myevreview.com/fastest-a....7%20s.&text=1.

EDIT: Found elsewhere the Battista is the fastest braking EV.... albeit given in distance and from 100KPH

The Battista also brakes just as well as it accelerates, so much so that it also set a record for the fastest-braking EV on earth, stopping from 100 km/h in just 31 meters (101.7 feet).

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/pi...ing-uae-debut/

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Grant, in the old days this record was held by the Sheby Cobra, it was the sales argument.

Yes, that's the car I first heard of as being associated with such a record.

Vague memories suggest there was a time, a long time ago, when they claimed something like 13.1 secs with hands off the wheel. I can't imagine the suspension setting choices they would have had for such a feat.

[Gerard C]

Sure! I remember the test driver of Donkervort experiencing some issues during his fiorts attempt. Against my will, I made a 360° on the highway right in the middle of the trafic with a D8 turbo (at least the model fitted with an Audi engine) and keep a very bad souvenir of this adventure. Scarry!

[justracing]

Many happy returns to Gordon S, another one bites the dust!

[E.B]

Indeed Happy Birthday Gordon

[Peter Mallett]

Another one? Happy birthday bloke.

[E.B]

If anyone is interested....

CSCC Winter Warm Up | Classic Sports Car Club Silverstone GP 2023 | Livestream

https://youtu.be/ibUitrm7ikg

Classic Sports Car Club LIVE from Silverstone GP

Enjoy this spectacle of classic cars racing around the famous Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit!

Classes Racing in CSCC

WOSP New Millennium (1A-3A)/Verum Builders Open (3B-3C)/Gold Arts Magnificent Sevens (7A-8B)
Co-ordSport Tin Tops/Lohen Turbo Tin Tops/Puma Cup
Modern Classics (Garages 8C-11B/Advantage Motorsport Future Classics Garages 11C-12E)
LIquI Moly Slicks (Garages 4A-6C)
Gold Arts Magnificent Sevens (Garages 7A-8B)

[justracing]

Originally Posted by E.B

If anyone is interested....

CSCC Winter Warm Up | Classic Sports Car Club Silverstone GP 2023 | Livestream

https://youtu.be/ibUitrm7ikg

Contemplated spectating but I'm afraid I didn't fancy the temperature, must be my age. Opted for the livestream and Watched the S60 Volvo sihouette down at Castle Combe last year - very impressive vehicle in the Liqui Moly Slicks.

[grantp]

OK, which of you bought the Cossie RS 500 at the auction over the weekend?

I suppose it has to be Iain as the main suspect, using the proceeds from his parts sales ... ?

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, that was somewhat over the top, but now I suspect those that are racing will be on the market fairly soon.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes, that was somewhat over the top, but now I suspect those that are racing will be on the market fairly soon.

I'm just wondering what effect this sale is going to have on the Cosworth market, both the road cars & race cars. There were a couple more Cosworth's in the auction that also made far bigger money than usual and it looks like these are moving away from the 'enthusiasts' pockets and into 'investors' territory. The problem with that, as has happened before is that the boom in market prices can soon blow over leaving some unfortunate people to suffer a massive loss...

[E.B]

Originally Posted by grantp

OK, which of you bought the Cossie RS 500 at the auction over the weekend?

Yeah I saw the price that went for.... just over the average house price in Melbourne. For a 35 year old 'Ford'.

Mind you someone paid over AU$ 1 million for a Holden Ute here recently.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/hsv-gt...lian-made-car/

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

The problem with that, as has happened before is that the boom in market prices can soon blow over leaving some unfortunate people to suffer a massive loss...

Really? Unfortunate? Are you kidding? When you see the prices asked for a new Cosworth engine, two liter or three, there's a market not mentioning the Escorts going far beyond the 100k mark.

[grantp]

Gerard,

One might think the same thing about "average" road cars.

I am unconvinced that the prices reflect an improved product and better utility from it. Indeed, some stories I have heard suggest the opposite.

What seems to be happening is that the value of something stays much the same but the purchasing power of the currency in one's pocket is falling. Worldwide.

The full effect may take a while to be noticed by the top 1% of the population.

[Gerard C]

I see your point Grant, but the classic cars market is really a different matter. Many weird things happen just because a lot of money is moved.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Really? Unfortunate? Are you kidding? When you see the prices asked for a new Cosworth engine, two liter or three, there's a market not mentioning the Escorts going far beyond the 100k mark.

Sorry Gerard, this is a market I have an affinity with and know a number of Cosworth owners, all of them are enthusiasts. Of course the price of new engines has gone up in the past 30 years, but the original main YB engine parts (block & cylinder heads for example) are no longer mass produced (or even made by the original manufacturers), this, added to inflation is bound to have an effect on the cost. But for a road car to sell for around 24 times of its original purchase price 30 odd years later (and around 5 times more than one has sold before) is a bit of a shock!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sorry Gerard, this is a market I have an affinity with and know a number of Cosworth owners, all of them are enthusiasts. Of course the price of new engines has gone up in the past 30 years, but the original main YB engine parts (block & cylinder heads for example) are no longer mass produced (or even made by the original manufacturers), this, added to inflation is bound to have an effect on the cost. But for a road car to sell for around 24 times of its original purchase price 30 odd years later (and around 5 times more than one has sold before) is a bit of a shock!

I appreciate the fact that the RS500 was one of a limited edition of homologation specials and that it had very low mileage but even so, that is a barking mad price. But then there is the old adage that it is worth what someone is prepared to pay!
Rather than compare it with its original purchase price, though, I would prefer to compare it with other cars of a similar ilk and £500k probably buys 5-6 Audi Quattro 20valves or BMW E30 M3s or at least a couple of 964RS and personally, if I had it to spend, my £500k would have gone on one each of all of those and change for a decent 944 Turbo. Unless I already had those of course…..

[Duddha]

One guy said to me it's like the art market and cars have become stock, they get exchanged and prices are driven up. To me it's just like the asian art market, there's only just a handful of people that are interested, and it's pretty much a close circle. It works until the players switch to something else or die.

Having thought about it since the weekend, I like to collect things but I find it crazy to put such a vast amount of money into a car that is in the end only worth that money if it doesn't get used. What's the fun behind it, none to me.

Yet, you have to be crazy, there were 500 RS500 produced, 480 of the M3 Cecotto (80 more for the Swiss market as detuned version) or 501 of the M3 Evolution 2 and yet, none have gone stratospheric like the car we refer to here. I would say some people are maybe trying to bring up the value of something beyond reason.

[Peter Mallett]

It is odd. Whilst the adage that no matter what you spend, it's the enjoyment of the car that counts" holds true. If you can't use it or you are paying way above reasonable price then somthing is wrong. There's an XJ-S on one of the auction sites that is so far at £29k. That's the sort of price for a TWR or Le Mans special edition. A quick look at the MOT history suggests its not the ultra low mileage "unicorn" that it's presented to be.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Duddha

One guy said to me it's like the art market and cars have become stock, they get exchanged and prices are driven up. To me it's just like the asian art market, there's only just a handful of people that are interested, and it's pretty much a close circle. It works until the players switch to something else or die.

Having thought about it since the weekend, I like to collect things but I find it crazy to put such a vast amount of money into a car that is in the end only worth that money if it doesn't get used. What's the fun behind it, none to me.

Yet, you have to be crazy, there were 500 RS500 produced, 480 of the M3 Cecotto (80 more for the Swiss market as detuned version) or 501 of the M3 Evolution 2 and yet, none have gone stratospheric like the car we refer to here. I would say some people are maybe trying to bring up the value of something beyond reason.

Agree whole heartedly. I am fortunate enough to have owned an Audi Quattro for 25 years; it has 140k miles on it now and I have just spent a fortune (by my standards) on having the bodywork sorted and re-sprayed. It looks fantastic and is worth circa £30k, maybe. I love driving it and used to drive it enthusiastically but I hardly ever use it now for fear of pranging it or a car park scrape etc. I am thinking of buying a TT or Scirocco or Focus ST for £5-7k to enjoy where it won’t matter so much.
Do I sell the quattro? I just can’t make myself at the the moment. I tell myself that whilst I probably won’t drive it like I used to, I will drive it to classic car shows and the like. At least it will be used to some extent, and at 140k miles already, I don’t really worry about the mileage.