Pictures from Thunder Arabia Lst round

[thunderarabia]

Dear all
these are some pictures fro mthe Thunder Arabia Formula Ford Middle East Series.

http://www.thunderarabia.com/album/index.html

[JohnMiller]

Why do they seem to persist in incorrectly referring to the FZips as Formula Fords now?

[thunderarabia]

simply because the Formula Zip is a Formula Ford. t is a Ford Zetec Engine, tha makes it Formula Ford. so i don't think it is incorrectly refered to as Formual Ford.

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Why do they seem to persist in incorrectly referring to the FZips as Formula Fords now?

[JohnMiller]

Thank you for your polite response, which I think remains wholly inaccurate.

I can't resist suggesting that a dog born in a stable must be a horse then?

I have raced a Zip Formula car, and while actually quite pleasant to drive, it conforms to no FoMoCo Formula Ford regulations that I know of on the planet.

[bella]

yeah, i'd say that they're not a fford car, but i suppose if that's what they're called over there then so be it. it's more of a formula car powered by a ford than a formula ford really.

[No 4]

When I was involved with the inaugural series it was refered to as 'ZIP Formula powered by Ford'. I also think there was some issue with the use of the Ford name, though I can't be absolutely certain about this. Clearly someone connected directly to the series - Martin Hines, Luke Hines, Gary Paffet - could no doubt clarify.

[thunderarabia]

Dear Sir
as we are new to the sport in the Middle East, could you please specify th difference betwee a Formula Ford Car and a Formula powered by a ford engine.
will appreciate the information. Regards

Originally Posted by bella

yeah, i'd say that they're not a fford car, but i suppose if that's what they're called over there then so be it. it's more of a formula car powered by a ford than a formula ford really.

[bella]

i'm a madam

it's a definition thing. a "formula ford" has to conform to (and someone please correct me here if necessary) the "formula ford" regulations with regards to size, safety, etc. i suspect that so long as it conforms to any regulations from any year, then it's a "formula ford".

the formula zip cars, as no 4 kindly points out, are "zip formula powered by ford". the definition i was trying to make was similar to that mentioned by johnmiller, ie that it's a formula car (a name for anything single seater), which was powered by ford.

[No 4]

Does this help?

Brief History of Formula Ford.

Towards the end of 1966 Geoffrey Clarke, M.D of the Motor Racing Stables racing school, fed up with students blowing up expensive Formula 3 engines took a 1500cc Ford Cortina GT engine (some sources say it was a BMC engine) and bolted it in to a Lotus 31 F3 chassis and was impressed by the results. His hybrid was discussed during a meeting with Motor Circuit Development’s John Web and Ford’s Henry Taylor at the 1966 Olympia Racing Car Show. The specification for a new low-cost racing series was agreed and Ford allowed their name to be used for the formula.

The specification was basic, to keep down the costs, a spaceframe chassis, standard Cortina J rims and 5½" tyres, and Cortina GT 1600cc ‘Kent’ engine and gearbox. Originally there was a cost limit for the chassis but this was quietly dropped later. The first cars had Lotus 31 chassis but Lotus soon produced the Lotus 51 chassis specifically for the series. One of BMRC’s correspondents in the USA is in the process of restoring one of the original Lotus 51 chassis. By the end of 1967 a total of 12 firms were offering chassis for FF.

Bella, this sounds like your definition was right, in that to be called FF cars have to meet a specification, which is not just about using a Ford power unit.

[Ian Sowman]

Could you enter one of these cars into any FFord race where the cars are required to comply with Formula Ford technical regulations?

No, so it isn't a Formula Ford. End of.

[thunderarabia]

will check if it complies with the specs and come back.

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Could you enter one of these cars into any FFord race where the cars are required to comply with Formula Ford technical regulations?

No, so it isn't a Formula Ford. End of.

[thunderarabia]

you were right.
i checked the specs, and some of the specs are not the same, so from now on we will call it the Thunder Arabia Zip Formula powered by Ford Engine1600.
in all cases we are aming to attract some of th young European Drivers to come and compet against our Middle East Drivers on a Budget that can never be found in Europe, as we managed to keep the cost at 15,000 Pounds for the ful season including all consumables, which i don't think can be found in Europe, even after adding the travle cost which should come to a maximum of 6,000 pounds.
so we really wish that we can get some of the talents from Europe to know at which level does our drivers stand.
and thank yo uguys for the education.
Regards

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Could you enter one of these cars into any FFord race where the cars are required to comply with Formula Ford technical regulations?

No, so it isn't a Formula Ford. End of.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by thunderarabia

you were right.
i checked the specs, and some of the specs are not the same, so from now on we will call it the Thunder Arabia Zip Formula powered by Ford Engine1600.
in all cases we are aming to attract some of th young European Drivers to come and compet against our Middle East Drivers on a Budget that can never be found in Europe, as we managed to keep the cost at 15,000 Pounds for the ful season including all consumables, which i don't think can be found in Europe, even after adding the travle cost which should come to a maximum of 6,000 pounds.
so we really wish that we can get some of the talents from Europe to know at which level does our drivers stand.
and thank yo uguys for the education.
Regards

When these things were raced in the UK, the budget for a full season was £30K. The series died after 2 (?) seasons because people generally felt it was poor value, and the cars weren't interesting /fast/exciting/challenging/pretty enough. It never attracted other than beginners, for whom the series was developed, to be fair.

To expect 'talented' European drivers to pay over 2/3 of that to race on a very limited number of circuits 1/2 way round the world, in cars that were never very good and are now 5 years old, is optimistic to say the least.

If any of them is ever going to 'make it', your Middle Eastern drivers will have to compete in Europe at some stage; wouldn't it be easier to send one or two over here to see how they will get on racing against the European talent in racing cars, that, with any due respect, will be far more relevant than the old Zips?

Don't I remember Jamie Morrow coming over to the Thunderarabia series and cleaning up, though he couldn't 'win' anything because he was also teaching the local guys? Well, Jamie was one of thousands of similarly able European drivers, never more than average in the main UK series that he ran in, which is no criticism, the standard is pretty high. That alone should help you rate your guys.

[AstroBoy]

Formula Ford??, those things aren't formula ford.

They look like something from The Jetsons...

[No 4]

Originally Posted by REALIST

When these things were raced in the UK, the budget for a full season was £30K. The series died after 2 (?) seasons because people generally felt it was poor value, and the cars weren't interesting /fast/exciting/challenging/pretty enough. It never attracted other than beginners, for whom the series was developed, to be fair.

I think this is a little harsh. The series dying had as much to do with the MSA abandoning it's 'ladder' concept, of which the ZIP Formula was part, as it had to do with 'poor value' etc.

To expect 'talented' European drivers to pay over 2/3 of that to race on a very limited number of circuits 1/2 way round the world, in cars that were never very good and are now 5 years old, is optimistic to say the least.

But they would get get many hours of track time in the winter months when its often difficult to get the same in the UK and northern Europe

If any of them is ever going to 'make it', your Middle Eastern drivers will have to compete in Europe at some stage; wouldn't it be easier to send one or two over here to see how they will get on racing against the European talent in racing cars, that, with any due respect, will be far more relevant than the old Zips?

Fair point, that's exactly what the winner of the inaugural Thunder Arabia championship is doing this season.

Don't I remember Jamie Morrow coming over to the Thunderarabia series and cleaning up, though he couldn't 'win' anything because he was also teaching the local guys? Well, Jamie was one of thousands of similarly able European drivers, never more than average in the main UK series that he ran in, which is no criticism, the standard is pretty high. That alone should help you rate your guys.

I think this is once again a little harsh. Jamie had ZIP race wins and podiums (beating the likes of rated drivers such as Tim Bridgeman, Mike Spencer, Paddy Hogan and Dominic Jackson) in the process. As for being average in other main UK series, because he's under-funded he's only ever done part seasons in back marker Formula Renault teams, so he's never been in a position to really prove his capabilities one way or the other.

We are pretty certain he'll be out in Infiniti Pro in the US next year, so I'm pleased to say that after a lot of frustrations he'll have his chance show what he can do. By the way, as is probably evident from my comments, I'm Jamie's father!!

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by No 4

I think this is once again a little harsh. Jamie had ZIP race wins and podiums (beating the likes of rated drivers such as Tim Bridgeman, Mike Spencer, Paddy Hogan and Dominic Jackson) in the process. As for being average in other main UK series, because he's under-funded he's only ever done part seasons in back marker Formula Renault teams, so he's never been in a position to really prove his capabilities one way or the other.

We are pretty certain he'll be out in Infiniti Pro in the US next year, so I'm pleased to say that after a lot of frustrations he'll have his chance show what he can do. By the way, as is probably evident from my comments, I'm Jamie's father!!

Didn't mean to be harsh! I wasn't commenting on Jamie's inherent ability, but I don't think it can be denied that he was turning in average performances, in FR, at that time. At that time I don't think he would have been classed as one of Europe's 'talented' drivers, any more than a lot of other hopefuls, and, I have to say, I don't think you help your case that much by naming who you did as the 'names' he's beaten!

Put it another way: in 2003 (?) Jamie ran in Zip and won a race or two? I can't remember, but he didn''t win every race, starting from the back of the grid, which is what he did in Thunder Arabia, which is surely a startiing point in assessing the local guys' ability?

As for your other points, it could be said that the failure of the Zip formula was the reason for the abandonment of the 'ladder', as much as the other way round and hours of track time in old, not to say obsolete, machinery on tracks you won't race on normally, are of very little value.

[No 4]

Originally Posted by REALIST

Put it another way: in 2003 (?) Jamie ran in Zip and won a race or two? I can't remember, but he didn''t win every race, starting from the back of the grid, which is what he did in Thunder Arabia, which is surely a startiing point in assessing the local guys' ability?

.

Realist - on this we agree. It does put in a marker regarding the current level that the local drivers are at. However, in fairness to the Thunder Arabia organisers, I think they are well aware of this and know that as most of their drivers are relatively inexperienced it will take some time for them to develop to European standards. Nonetheless, all credit to them for starting on the journey and for having the very laudable ambition to produce the first F1 driver from the Middle East. Good luck to them.

As for Jamie, he's still determined to prove that he has what it takes to win championships. Watch this space!!

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by No 4

Realist - on this we agree. It does put in a marker regarding the current level that the local drivers are at. However, in fairness to the Thunder Arabia organisers, I think they are well aware of this and know that as most of their drivers are relatively inexperienced it will take some time for them to develop to European standards. Nonetheless, all credit to them for starting on the journey and for having the very laudable ambition to produce the first F1 driver from the Middle East. Good luck to them.

As for Jamie, he's still determined to prove that he has what it takes to win championships. Watch this space!!

Good! I hope he does it too!

I still think it would be much more relevant for the ME guys to come over here than the other way around.

[No 4]

Originally Posted by REALIST

Good! I hope he does it too!

I still think it would be much more relevant for the ME guys to come over here than the other way around.

As I think I metioned before, that's exactly what last years winner, Raed Raffi, has done. I believe he's driving in the Belgium FF series.

Regarding European drivers going to the ME in our close season, I imagine the TA organisers are doing what anyone else would do, i) trying to raise the profile of their series by attracting higher profile drivers and ii) hoping to offset some of their costs + attract championship sponsors, by putting out bigger grids and iii) hoping to improve local drivers by having them race against more experienced racers - which I think its fair to say was the case for Raed when he raced against Jamie.

Is it worth European drivers going out there? I hear what you say about the limitations of the ZIP cars, on the other hand it's relatively cheap, there is loads of track time on a GP standard circuit and the chance of being rained off is very small + the TA guys and local people couldn't be more helpful. I guess its a personal choice.

[thunderarabia]

Originally Posted by REALIST

Good! I hope he does it too!

I still think it would be much more relevant for the ME guys to come over here than the other way around.

Dear Realist
eventually our drivers will be competing in the UK, but again what we are trying to do is getting drivers frmo Europe to ME, not the BRAND NAMES DRIVERS, we are looking to get the young Drivers ( 15 and up) to come here during the off season, so we can have the opportuninty to evaluate all of our drivers and not only the ones who goes to Europe. it is for the benefit of the sport in the Middle East. and very soon, the FR2.0 are coming over here for a new mini series that will be held over 9 configuration in 3 tracks, and should be good value for money. and even if you don't agree about the Zip FOrmula Cars, they still are equivelant in performance, and this is the base we are trying to evaluate our drivers on, not the support of their teams and financials can provide, this can help them once they prove they are competitive against other drivers on a playing level field with equality in everything.