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Old 28 Aug 2013, 13:13 (Ref:3295198)   #1
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Donington Superstars-dinner break, what dinner break

Just received my passes for the superstars meeting and find out there is no provision for a dinner break on the Sunday. I can understand when we miss dinner because of the meeting running late due to unforeseen circumstances but when there is no provision for a break in the first place it is unforgivable.
It's just another case of a major series (not club) taking the wet stuff.
I will still be doing the Saturday where there IS a break but unless there is a change of heart I will not be spending 10 hours on post without a break on Sunday.

It is about time we, or the BMMC on our behalf, made a clear statement that it is unacceptable to spend so long on post without a break. Concentrating for that long can lead to fatigue which could lead to mistakes being made.WE ARE ONLY HUMAN!
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 13:19 (Ref:3295207)   #2
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You are not aware about the bacon roll that will appear magically to your post at sometime during both days that has been organised .. I also saw that timetable and thought we need to do something.. I appreciate it's not much but every little helps.. PS we are also supplying 350 bottles of water for marshals to take one each per day..
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 15:02 (Ref:3295252)   #3
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I noticed the lack of a lunch break as well and will only be there on the Sunday..

I have also noticed the gaps between the races are between 20 to 30mins each so might still get some down time, at least enough to enjoy the bacon roll!!

Even without the lunch break I am looking forward to this! Hopefully get my flag assessment sorted as well :-)
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 17:58 (Ref:3295336)   #4
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Originally Posted by Johansen2000 View Post
I noticed the lack of a lunch break as well and will only be there on the Sunday..

I have also noticed the gaps between the races are between 20 to 30mins each so might still get some down time, at least enough to enjoy the bacon roll!!

Even without the lunch break I am looking forward to this! Hopefully get my flag assessment sorted as well :-)
Most of the races are lap races so I don't know how you come by the 20-30 min downtime
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 18:09 (Ref:3295341)   #5
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Just received my passes for the superstars meeting and find out there is no provision for a dinner break on the Sunday. I can understand when we miss dinner because of the meeting running late due to unforeseen circumstances but when there is no provision for a break in the first place it is unforgivable.
Was the timetable not available on line? Was it not possible to check beforehand the Sunday format?

Lunch is for wimps anyway

We're volunteers after all, we can hack it, or if you don't like it, don't do it
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 18:20 (Ref:3295348)   #6
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Most of the races are lap races so I don't know how you come by the 20-30 min downtime
The first race has a finish time of 9.20, the next race starts at 9.50 and the race after that starts at 11.

The auto gp cars are not what I would call slow so a 21 lap race from the is going to be 30 to 40 mins on the full gp circuit and still would be giving around 30mins before the next race which is the superstars which is 25mins plus 1 lap.

That will give us around 15mins before a timed 15min qual season that finishes 20mins before the next race...

This seems to be the trend for the whole day, mostly 20min gaps, with 30min gaps before the superstars races and a 15min gap before the only qual on Sunday.. That's how I am reading it anyway :-)
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 18:34 (Ref:3295352)   #7
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Remember "All times are provisional & may be changed without notice. It is the competitors responsibility ... to be in the assembly area no later than 20 minutes prior to start of the Qualifying or Race. ...."

Unless it's live TV
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 19:01 (Ref:3295365)   #8
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Remember "All times are provisional & may be changed without notice. It is the competitors responsibility ... to be in the assembly area no later than 20 minutes prior to start of the Qualifying or Race. ...."

Unless it's live TV
Lol that's a good point!
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 19:23 (Ref:3295374)   #9
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You are not aware about the bacon roll that will appear magically to your post at sometime during both days that has been organised .. I also saw that timetable and thought we need to do something.. I appreciate it's not much but every little helps.. PS we are also supplying 350 bottles of water for marshals to take one each per day..
no butter and no sauce please roy
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 19:44 (Ref:3295380)   #10
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[QUOTE=thepits!;3295341]Was the timetable not available on line? Was it not possible to check beforehand the Sunday format?
not until a long time after volunteering

Lunch is for wimps anyway
and it's hero's like you with remarks like that that allows them to get away with it

We're volunteers after all, we can hack it, or if you don't like it, don't do it
Yes we are volunteers and should be treated as such and not taken for granted

10 hours continuous on post and a 2 hour drive at both ends of the day, I will be there but if I start flagging towards the end don't blame me
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 19:47 (Ref:3295381)   #11
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As I love being controversial:

My view is that if there is no planned lunch break then it is your decision whether or not to attend. We all know that things can happen which reduce any planned break - that's why we always take food with us.

But if you know there is going to be no break then don't go and then complain about it afterwards.

So long as there is a loo nearby then ignore whether or not there is a break and think about what cars are out there and what the racing will be like. That should be what you base your decision on as to whether or not to attend a meeting.

But we all still whinge afterwards when a planned break is curtailed. Isn't that why we're marshals?
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 19:58 (Ref:3295383)   #12
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Lunch is for wimps anyway
The lunch break is not necessarily a time for eating lunch but more a time for: stretching your legs, having a sit down, using the facilities, having a change of scenery, meeting other marshals and competitors in the Paddock and on many occasions removing yourself from whatever the weather has thrown at you - be it sun, rain, snow or wind.
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 20:37 (Ref:3295394)   #13
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Most people - me & Stack included - will have volunteered for this back in March or April, long before a timetable was even thought of.

I'll be there both days, but I respect the decision of anyone who decides not to be. I hope we're not left short of people on Sunday but if we are then the reason will be obvious.

I hope all the post chiefs will have enough people to rotate some off duty for a decent break either side what we might term "lunch time"
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 20:41 (Ref:3295395)   #14
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But we all still whinge afterwards when a planned break is curtailed. Isn't that why we're marshals?
I didn't hear any serious whingeing at Oulton on Monday when the lunch break was reduced to five minutes' stand down on post because of a major incident. We all accept that - what we whinge about is the lack of a lunch break because of an impossible timetable or a badly-run meeting.

Volunteers or not, I see no reason why we shouldn't get the same working hour deal as would be legally required if we were employees.

(Not that that's anything to do with the meeting at Donington!)
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 20:44 (Ref:3295396)   #15
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Originally Posted by Shelagh View Post
As I love being controversial:

We all know that things can happen which reduce any planned break - that's why we always take food with us.
...

But we all still whinge afterwards when a planned break is curtailed. Isn't that why we're marshals?
Maybe, but I don't mind having a planned break curtailed because of incidents. At least then, there has been some consideration shown for us. If I'd received my tickets before I'd paid for my hotel, they would have been straight back in the post. As it is, I now know not to volunteer next year.
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 21:54 (Ref:3295421)   #16
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Was the timetable not available on line? Was it not possible to check beforehand the Sunday format?
At the time of volunteering, not usually. The last meeting I did at Donington was down as a 7pm finish at the time of volunteering. Turned into 7:15 by the final instructions and actually finished at 7:40 on the day.

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We're volunteers after all, we can hack it, or if you don't like it, don't do it
And as you'll find at this circuit, many of us have chosen the latter. And then we get criticised for not supporting our colleagues or looking unprofessional when a meeting risks being cancelled. A post of this nature comes up at least once or twice a year. Thankfully the marshals' club is more realistic and works against this attitude.

Tempted to come back? Nope. I'll stick to places with a curfew.
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 21:59 (Ref:3295424)   #17
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Originally Posted by Dave Brand View Post
I didn't hear any serious whingeing at Oulton on Monday when the lunch break was reduced to five minutes' stand down on post because of a major incident. We all accept that - what we whinge about is the lack of a lunch break because of an impossible timetable or a badly-run meeting.

Volunteers or not, I see no reason why we shouldn't get the same working hour deal as would be legally required if we were employees.

(Not that that's anything to do with the meeting at Donington!)
Having looked at the timetable it is pretty shitty and has no consideration for volunteer marshals what so ever. I agree with Dave Brand that we can lose a break due to unforeseen circumstances as with last weekend at Oulton Park and as PC I asked my IO to make sure those who needed to stand down had the opportunity to do so. But as always it seems Donington is taking the the **** and it will take more than a bacon roll and a bottle of water to tempt me back, no offence intended.......

Bladders....

Last edited by M Greenslade; 28 Aug 2013 at 22:15.
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 22:14 (Ref:3295431)   #18
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Having looked at the timetable it is pretty shitty and has no consideration for volunteer marshals what so ever. I agree with Dave Brand that we can lose a break due to unforeseen circumstances as with last weekend at Oulton Park and as PC I asked my IO to make sure those who needed to stand down had the opportunity to do so. But as always it seems Donington is taking the the **** and it will take more than a bacon roll to tempt me back.

Bladders....
Correct me if I am wrong here but I'm sure donington it self has little to no say regarding an event timetable - all they do is provide the venue and the organising club sort the event timetable....

In my very short time as a marshal I have seen donington themselves provide support and the like to marshals..

Also in my very short time as a marshal this is the first meeting I have seen with out a lunch break and at least some form of a token gesture is being offered for this. I also would be surprised if the same issue happens again!

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Old 29 Aug 2013, 07:35 (Ref:3295539)   #19
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Correct me if I am wrong here but I'm sure donington it self has little to no say regarding an event timetable - all they do is provide the venue and the organising club sort the event timetable....

In my very short time as a marshal I have seen donington themselves provide support and the like to marshals..

Also in my very short time as a marshal this is the first meeting I have seen with out a lunch break and at least some form of a token gesture is being offered for this. I also would be surprised if the same issue happens again!
OK, meetings held at Donington if you want to be more accurate.

Bladders......
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Old 29 Aug 2013, 08:23 (Ref:3295554)   #20
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Presumably the fact that Donington has no real curfew so the organisers know they can keep going until WE drop has something to do with it.

But they do have a few interesting meetings so I'll carry on volunteering for the odd one or two. It's easy enough to volunteer and it's basically just as easy to un-volunteer when the timetable comes out if it proves to be extracting the urine.

This is my hobby. I do it because I enjoy it. If I'm not going to enjoy it I'm not going to do it. Seems simple enough to me .

Steve
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Old 29 Aug 2013, 09:19 (Ref:3295578)   #21
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Donington DOES have a curfew.
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Old 29 Aug 2013, 09:37 (Ref:3295592)   #22
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Donington DOES have a curfew.
Indeed, an *extremely* well enforced one. Given recent planning issues at another circuit it isn't in Donington's interests to go over time (or indeed start early).

Just to refer back to previous comments about the law:

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Volunteers or not, I see no reason why we shouldn't get the same working hour deal as would be legally required if we were employees.
You may or may not be aware that in current UK employment law, if a person works more than 6 hours a day then all they are entitled to is a single 20 minute break.

Yep, just 1. And only 20 minutes.

I believe it could be argued that a single 20 minute rest break could be fitted in to the Sunday timetable without scratching the surface, so let's not lean on the law, shall we?

Woolley, it's a shame you picked a recent meeting that overran which reinforced your experiences from some time ago. I do about three quarters of my marshalling at Donington, and late finishes (where "late" means more than, say, 15 or 20 minutes after the scheduled close of play) are the exception, not the rule *at events I choose to do*. BRSCC and MGCC club events often finish on time or even slightly early due to the way they run quali & practice sessions together.

I agree that the timetable on Sunday isn't ideal. It was my first comment to Mrs F when I opened the envelope containing it, in fact, but I'll make sure that I and whatever post I'm on (and whatever duty I'm on) manage to rotate myself people off post for some stand down time at some acceptable point in the day. We have to work together to make the best of a crappy hand, and as always, that's what we'll do.

One final thing: if you really do strongly object and decide not to attend, don't just make it known by venting spleen here. Write to the BRSCC head office about it, or to the local branch of your own club (be it BMMC, BARC or something else), to pass on to the organisers. You can only change things if you make your feelings known formally.

Last edited by Greem; 29 Aug 2013 at 09:38. Reason: Bit'o'clarity
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Old 29 Aug 2013, 09:47 (Ref:3295598)   #23
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One final thing: if you really do strongly object and decide not to attend, don't just make it known by venting spleen here. Write to the BRSCC head office about it, or to the local branch of your own club (be it BMMC, BARC or something else), to pass on to the organisers. You can only change things if you make your feelings known formally.


As I have posted before - If you have a personal issue with a particular club/circuit/meeting then a quiet word with the right person is usually so much better than a public rant......... and avoids people being hit by toys coming out of the pram

In this particular case the BRSCC route would seem quite appropriate given the "other hat" that the BRSCC Chairman wears ...... in fact you could write to him in both of his capacities, that might help get the message home
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Old 29 Aug 2013, 09:48 (Ref:3295599)   #24
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I've been marshalling more years than I care to remember and when I saw the timetable even I was considering sending the tickets back. I didn't because I don't like letting clubs down, but I'll think twice about doing it next season. I have a near two hour drive each way so I'll be up about 5:00 and won't get back until around 9:00 (even if we finish on time).

If organisers (and I'm not singling out any particular club because I realise there are circumstances beyond their control) don't listen to to us and find they are short of people in future its their own fault. The new Chief Executive of the MSA says in the latest magazine that volunteers need respect. Well this is one example of not respecting them.
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Old 29 Aug 2013, 11:02 (Ref:3295639)   #25
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You may or may not be aware that in current UK employment law, if a person works more than 6 hours a day then all they are entitled to is a single 20 minute break.

Yes, I am fully aware of that. 20 minutes is better than nothing! I am also aware that they are entitled to take that break away from their work station - "stand down on post" does not meet that criterion!

. . . however, what goes on at Donington is none of my business!

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