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Old 7 Dec 2023, 21:33 (Ref:4188599)   #376
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The BBC has reported that the FIA has finished it's enquiries and that there is nothing to be seen:

Quote:
The FIA's statement said: "Following a review of Formula 1 Management's F1 code of conduct and F1 conflict of interest policy, and confirmation that appropriate protective measures are in place to mitigate any potential conflicts, the FIA is satisfied that FOM's compliance management system is robust enough to prevent any unauthorised disclosure of confidential information.

"The FIA can confirm that there is no ongoing investigation in terms of ethical or disciplinary inquiries involving any individual.

"As the regulator, the FIA has a duty to maintain the integrity of global motorsport. The FIA reaffirms its commitment to integrity and fairness."
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Old 7 Dec 2023, 21:43 (Ref:4188601)   #377
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Thanks Mike,

Article here from Autosport as well.

What a complete mess this week - wonder who in the FIA thought it was a good idea to pump out the initial release when (based on this statement) the work done could have all been delivered quietly, professionally and competently without all the hoopla?

It feels like the whole thing was some kind of dig / power play between FIA and FOM because this latest statement seems to be saying "now that we've looked, FOM seems to be operating properly".

All been bloody weird and in reality, not in the least bit necessary.
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Old 7 Dec 2023, 21:57 (Ref:4188603)   #378
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
The BBC has reported that the FIA has finished it's enquiries and that there is nothing to be seen:
That quote reads to me as..."I said to myself... Self are we good? And I replied, yes, we are all good."

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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
What a complete mess this week - wonder who in the FIA thought it was a good idea to pump out the initial release when (based on this statement) the work done could have all been delivered quietly, professionally and competently without all the hoopla?

It feels like the whole thing was some kind of dig / power play between FIA and FOM because this latest statement seems to be saying "now that we've looked, FOM seems to be operating properly".

All been bloody weird and in reality, not in the least bit necessary.
As they would say here in the US... FIA seems quite "bush league" right now. You know this has to be coming from the top.

FIA presidential term is four years. Mohammed Ben Sulayem is up for re-election in what, 2025? Given he keeps stepping in it. I think it is member country representatives who vote, but will he be re-elected? Andretti is probably thinking... Do I want this guy on my side?

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Old 7 Dec 2023, 22:44 (Ref:4188606)   #379
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It besmirches the good name of the genuine hard working women and men of the FIA and their affiliated ASN bodies.

They made an example of Mr Masi, will they seek out the instigator of this mess and invite them to seek other opportunities. Regardless of how high it goes in the hierarchy..!
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Old 7 Dec 2023, 22:46 (Ref:4188607)   #380
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Originally Posted by Richard C View Post
That quote reads to me as..."I said to myself... Self are we good? And I replied, yes, we are all good."


As they would say here in the US... FIA seems quite "bush league" right now. You know this has to be coming from the top.

FIA presidential term is four years. Mohammed Ben Sulayem is up for re-election in what, 2025? Given he keeps stepping in it. I think it is member country representatives who vote, but will he be re-elected? Andretti is probably thinking... Do I want this guy on my side?

Richard
I think that message boards are going crazy over nothing.
NO official complaint was lodged by anyone.... Just a lot of Chinese whispers.
MBS decides to launch a formal investigation off his hip, just to see if there is anything real there.
Media feeding frenzy goes off. Nothing strange about that.
This is the piranha pit after all....
All the team managers issue statement collectively taking umbrage.
Wasn't us!
Steal a line from Sergeant Schulz

'Colonel Hogan, I know nothing, i see nothing....'
MBS smiles to himself. 'Fixed that one quickly!'
Issues statement 'Nothing to see here. all is well in LaLaland....'
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Old 7 Dec 2023, 23:18 (Ref:4188609)   #381
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How does any of that make the sport any better?
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 01:39 (Ref:4188611)   #382
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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
How does any of that make the sport any better?
Any of what?
MyPost?
Richards post?
The whole Wolf issue?
Whoever dropped the concern in the first place?
Or if it was a media blow-up whichever media group?
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 03:05 (Ref:4188614)   #383
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"Grand Prix" style racing doesn't necessarily need FOM/Liberty.
This nearly happened with the FIA–FOTA dispute, with the FOTA teams announcing their intention to form their own rival breakaway series, on the eve of the 2009 British GP.
OH NO!!!!
Son of Formula Teddy Out of the Pram!!!!

They're baaaack....
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 03:16 (Ref:4188616)   #384
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Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
I think that message boards are going crazy over nothing.
NO official complaint was lodged by anyone.... Just a lot of Chinese whispers.
MBS decides to launch a formal investigation off his hip, just to see if there is anything real there.
Media feeding frenzy goes off. Nothing strange about that.
This is the piranha pit after all....
All the team managers issue statement collectively taking umbrage.
Wasn't us!
Steal a line from Sergeant Schulz

'Colonel Hogan, I know nothing, i see nothing....'
MBS smiles to himself. 'Fixed that one quickly!'
Issues statement 'Nothing to see here. all is well in LaLaland....'

In the end, F1 is a cut throat BUSINESS with budgets in the 100s of millions annually, and where the tiniest edge you can get on one of those 9 other B*st*rds can mean millions of dollar boost or loss.

THis is the off season so you cant beat anyone on track for the next few months. So the game moves to the boardrooms and garages where plans are being finalised.

Every minute that any competing management etc is having to spend responding to any claims whether true or made up, is time not spent on making the team and product better. And if it makes a few people question that teams integrity, all the better!

Doesnt matter if its true or not. Same with "Lewis asked Christian for a job." Its just mind and management games. Create confusion and mischief for the other mob.

Its pure theatre. I love it.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 03:31 (Ref:4188619)   #385
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Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
Any of what?
MyPost?
Richards post?
The whole Wolf issue?
Whoever dropped the concern in the first place?
Or if it was a media blow-up whichever media group?
Clearly each of my posts are a gift upon mankind and can ONLY have a positive impact.

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Originally Posted by bathurst77 View Post
THis is the off season so you cant beat anyone on track for the next few months. So the game moves to the boardrooms and garages where plans are being finalised.
The problem with the off season is that the next race can't drown out whatever non-racing drama that happens to occupy the press. So this story might yet have some life left?

The investigation seemed to have concluded in record time. So everyone understands it was cut short to make it all go away. Nothing serious could have been completed in that short of time. And the fact it was "concluded" so quickly is IMHO an embarrassment in itself. Time will tell if this blows over in the media or not (see comment above about lack of distractions). However I wonder how much MBS has antagonized various powerful people and that scores will be settled in the future.

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Old 8 Dec 2023, 03:55 (Ref:4188620)   #386
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Fabulous comment on Reddit regarding the investigation....

"Rumors were noted by the stewards - no further action"



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Old 8 Dec 2023, 03:58 (Ref:4188621)   #387
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Clearly each of my posts are a gift upon mankind and can ONLY have a positive impact.


The problem with the off season is that the next race can't drown out whatever non-racing drama that happens to occupy the press. So this story might yet have some life left?

The investigation seemed to have concluded in record time. So everyone understands it was cut short to make it all go away. Nothing serious could have been completed in that short of time. And the fact it was "concluded" so quickly is IMHO an embarrassment in itself. Time will tell if this blows over in the media or not (see comment above about lack of distractions). However I wonder how much MBS has antagonized various powerful people and that scores will be settled in the future.

Richard
Yes Richard. We're lucky to have you here....

I think that it is wrong to assume MBS isn't capable of playing off the teams or whoever was responsible for initiating the Wolf story.

He is the elected representative of the federation of motorsport clubs that govern international motorsport all over the globe, planet, earth, whatever you want to term it.

His job is to look after the FIA interests, not those of the teams, drivers, team staff et al. The WDC and the constructors' championships are FIA property.
Hès not a misfit at all.

There is a current global trend toward antipathy toward all authority, be it political, sporting, management or privilege.
This is easily observable on most of the social media platforms on any subject or news service in most places on the planet.

Many assume that money is the best measurement of what is true and right and that whoever has the most financial power, is usually right.
This of course is a fallacy and a trap.
Nothing more than a pit to fall into.

Just because someone in authority is the recipient of negative talk, insinuation of incompetence etc, doesn't mean they are actually guilty.

The F1 piranha pit doesn't feed on flesh, it feeds on money.
As usual you want to know where anything in F1 is sourced or where it is going you just follow the money.
The tendency here is to assume that everything Liberty is leading is good for the e sport and that any conflict they have with anyone is bad for the sport, because in the piranha pit, money rules.

But that may be a mistake many are making, and it may lead to a pit that becomes the ruin of many.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 04:21 (Ref:4188623)   #388
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How does any of that make the sport any better?
I wasn’t talking of the literary hold that always exists here

I was thinking of how a rumour, which may or may not have only existed having been spoken into being specifically by the person wanting to impact the Woolfs

The teams found solidarity.. quickly.. and with their various management teams scattered across the globe
And that NEVER happens…

I wonder if the FIA ivory towerists are taking note of that. And are wondering what happens the next time…
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 07:05 (Ref:4188627)   #389
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Thanks Mike,

Article here from Autosport as well.

What a complete mess this week - wonder who in the FIA thought it was a good idea to pump out the initial release when (based on this statement) the work done could have all been delivered quietly, professionally and competently without all the hoopla?

It feels like the whole thing was some kind of dig / power play between FIA and FOM because this latest statement seems to be saying "now that we've looked, FOM seems to be operating properly".

All been bloody weird and in reality, not in the least bit necessary.
We know Ben doesn't like Toto. The only real surprise here is the FIA overstepped the bounds so much that they managed to get every team to unite behind the accused.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 08:12 (Ref:4188628)   #390
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We know Ben doesn't like Toto. The only real surprise here is the FIA overstepped the bounds so much that they managed to get every team to unite behind the accused.

Yep - reminds me of the time Ben threw out a statement about the commercial value of F1 & had to backtrack real fast when FOM pulled his chain.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 10:11 (Ref:4188633)   #391
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The FIA really made a mess of it and drew unnecessary bad press to this. They would have been better off keeping quiet about it, rather than letting go out there. It has achieved nothing good out of this. I'm just glad we hopefully won't here about this again. I think the FIA have made themselves look very silly and need to avoid this kind of controversy again
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 15:22 (Ref:4188654)   #392
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The FIA really made a mess of it and drew unnecessary bad press to this. They would have been better off keeping quiet about it, rather than letting go out there. It has achieved nothing good out of this. I'm just glad we hopefully won't here about this again. I think the FIA have made themselves look very silly and need to avoid this kind of controversy again
Agree. See more thoughts below

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Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
I think that it is wrong to assume MBS isn't capable of playing off the teams or whoever was responsible for initiating the Wolf story.

He is the elected representative of the federation of motorsport clubs that govern international motorsport all over the globe, planet, earth, whatever you want to term it.

His job is to look after the FIA interests, not those of the teams, drivers, team staff et al. The WDC and the constructors' championships are FIA property.
Hès not a misfit at all.

There is a current global trend toward antipathy toward all authority, be it political, sporting, management or privilege.
This is easily observable on most of the social media platforms on any subject or news service in most places on the planet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
Just because someone in authority is the recipient of negative talk, insinuation of incompetence etc, doesn't mean they are actually guilty.
I cut out a few parts of your larger post that I wanted to comment on

I can appreciate why MBS came into power and that a different, more forceful and FIA centric position is needed. I broadly support that. I think the Andretti situation is a good example of FIA and MBS pushing in the right direction. I was cautiously optimistic about him and his direction (some of his historic baggage was always worrying, but maybe that was in his past)

But I think time will tell how successful he will be. IMHO he is struggling to wield his power gracefully and successfully. While he has power, it is not infinite. He will only have a finite amount of "Political capital". He likely can't succeed on all fronts. He has to pick his battles, or better yet, focus his energy on the appropriate battles and battles in which he can win and/or drive the most change. He is burning up that pollical capital quickly and on the wrong things, or in the wrong way.

Hand in hand with political capital is his credibility. My initial posts on this topic (just a page or so ago) gave MBS a strong benefit of doubt. That if he is going so public with such a strong claim (granted he is not making the claim, but the investigation effectively does) that there must be something there. That you just don't do something like this without having some real belief (and internal evidence) that something is going on. If I were doing this, I would have performed an internal and quiet investigation first to see if there really something before going with the full on public assault. In short, at least for me, he has lost credibility and others probably feel the same.

Given the quick collapse of the accusations, this entire episode can be seen as nothing but a total failure on his part and a real black eye. This is likely a huge distraction from any other positive work he might be undertaking. Can he recover? Absolutely, but is this episode an outlier or is this going to be standard behavior? Time will tell. I find zero ways that any of this can be twisted to portray MBS in a positive light.

I found this article to really cover many of those questions. What is most concerning is that this might have foundations in a personal grudge and less about "standing up for a strong FIA".

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/t...saga/10556219/

The Wolfe's are both trying to not totally inflame the situation, but also not going to let it go quietly.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...robe/10556312/

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Old 8 Dec 2023, 15:22 (Ref:4188655)   #393
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To me felt the response to the FIA announcement felt very "offence is the best defence". I find it interesting that certain people come on social media saying they were not informed, when no one person apparently was identified in the Tuesday announcement. On the teams with their united statement, it's perfectly possible for certain teams to have complained behind closed doors but to prefer to keep up appearance went put on the spot over a shared statement by the teams.



All smokes and mirrors peeps.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 15:38 (Ref:4188657)   #394
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To me felt the response to the FIA announcement felt very "offence is the best defence". I find it interesting that certain people come on social media saying they were not informed, when no one person apparently was identified in the Tuesday announcement. On the teams with their united statement, it's perfectly possible for certain teams to have complained behind closed doors but to prefer to keep up appearance went put on the spot over a shared statement by the teams.



All smokes and mirrors peeps.
Not a single team owner would choose to keep up the appearance of the sport over a legitimate complaint which would've given Mercedes any sort of advantage or information they shouldn't have had.

If there was any merit to these allegations then the FIA would not have ended an investigation before it even begun. Also note that reports of what Toto said changed dramatically after the teams denied it. Journalists don't walk back their claims, thus hurting their credibility, to make the sport look good.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 15:42 (Ref:4188659)   #395
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Not a single team owner would choose to keep up the appearance of the sport over a legitimate complaint which would've given Mercedes any sort of advantage or information they shouldn't have had.

If there was any merit to these allegations then the FIA would not have ended an investigation before it even begun. Also note that reports of what Toto said changed dramatically after the teams denied it. Journalists don't walk back their claims, thus hurting their credibility, to make the sport look good.

I think this article gives a bit more insight to what's going on: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...e-agent-probe/


As said, not everything is what it seems to be.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 15:43 (Ref:4188660)   #396
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Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
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Given the quick collapse of the accusations, this entire episode can be seen as nothing but a total failure on his part and a real black eye. This is likely a huge distraction from any other positive work he might be undertaking. Can he recover? Absolutely, but is this episode an outlier or is this going to be standard behavior? Time will tell. I find zero ways that any of this can be twisted to portray MBS in a positive light.

I found this article to really cover many of those questions. What is most concerning is that this might have foundations in a personal grudge and less about "standing up for a strong FIA".

Richard

My whole fear when he was elected was that there would be "tears" sooner or later.

One has to remember that he comes from a society that brooks no dissent or argument, and where the leader has to be revered, certainly in public, and in private, one needs to be very certain about the person to whom you confide.

My guess is that MBS was not fully prepared for the push back he has received from both FOM and the teams. My thoughts are that he will go away again to lick his wounds as he did last time. Whether he tries to throw his weight about again, is anyone's guess.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 15:47 (Ref:4188661)   #397
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Gotta be honest, that article doesn't tell us anything more than what's been said in this thread and certainly doesn't support the idea that a team principle changed their mind for the good of the sport.

An official complaint wasn't made to the FIA by anyone. The team principle report came from someone known to tell lies in their reporting. This report was walked back by other media outlets who had blindly copied the original.

There is nothing here other than a "journalist" who likes to tell lies and an FIA President who is power hungry and has a grudge against Toto.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 15:49 (Ref:4188662)   #398
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
My whole fear when he was elected was that there would be "tears" sooner or later.

One has to remember that he comes from a society that brooks no dissent or argument, and where the leader has to be revered, certainly in public, and in private, one needs to be very certain about the person to whom you confide.

My guess is that MBS was not fully prepared for the push back he has received from both FOM and the teams. My thoughts are that he will go away again to lick his wounds as he did last time. Whether he tries to throw his weight about again, is anyone's guess.
Completely agree with this.

I suspect he'll raise his head a few times again, get smacked down a few times again, and will eventually leave (after being asked to) when the relationship between the FIA and FOM continues to break down.
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 17:37 (Ref:4188668)   #399
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veeten should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridveeten should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Awwww, c'mon, it's off-season. Gotta keep busy somehow...
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Old 8 Dec 2023, 17:50 (Ref:4188670)   #400
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Out of interest, does anyone know if MBS if based in Paris these days and in personal, regular contact with FIA colleagues, or is he in Saudia on MS Teams?
I only ask as in the post-covid world, it seems increasingly common that senior execs are based half the world a way, appointed rather optimistically/naively on the basis that remote folk can adequately lead complex organisations. Just wonder if this might explain the complete lack of tact in the FIA response this week?
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