Clio Cup: banger racing or just brilliant?

[Jonny Apex]

In my view the Clio Cup is the best tin top champoionship out there. Every race the action just gets better and better and better with plenty of hard racing (sometimes very hard) but isn't this what the crwods want ot see? I dont think I've heard a bad comment about the Clios yet from anyone.

What does anyone else think?

[Rache]

I think the Clios are fantastic, it's great to see such full grids and you're right about the action....they are all nutters!!! Never a dull moment.

How much is it for a season out of interest?? The grids are so full it must be fairly affordable?

PS I'm not just enthusing about them so Rick P will definitely give me a few laps on the Charity Day either......!!!

PPS Due to Hyla I must also enthuse about the Lotus Sport Championship too or I'll get kicked!

[Les]

I was sceptical at first but I soon learnt to love 'em.
They were nearly all silver at the start but now they look great especially the dayglo and silver ones - very striking.
The racing is always close and thrilling and better than the touring cars most of the time.

I also love my Lotuses.

[RickP:Clio51]

Sorry Rache, definite hedging of the bets there...

Clio Cup is not banger racing... Clio Trophy is banger racing...

Clio Cup in the UK is lots of fun and hugely entertaining for the crowds. Plus the driving standards are pretty tame.

A season is about £65k plus damage. Some teams may quote you less, but they are just hiding elements of the true cost.

RickP

[pb btcc]

£65K OMG that a lot.

the clio round last weekend just summed up what it is...

BRILLANT

[RickP:Clio51]

Not really if you break it down:

Entries including test fees around £5k
Say 12 rounds.

Need 4 tyres a round £450 (2 in testing, 2 in race)
Team will need to do 1 test day and 2 days at weekend say £750/ day
Which is £2250 a round.
Fuel: £150
Parts: £? say £300 a round to include brake pads/ disks etc
Workshop time before and after, say £500
Insurance (£1000 excess and £5k of cover) £600?
Gives roughly £4250 a round * 12 = £51,000
Plus entry fees = £56,000

Doesn't allow for days when team need to be at circuit for more than 3 days, engine rebuilds, gearbox rebuilds, new wheels (they bend quite easily, I wrecked 14 of last years ones at £100 a go, 3 on the same kerb at Brands...) or any accident damage (remember, that £1000 excess is per incident, so if say someone hits you up the back and then later you crash: total damage £2000, you are paying it all...)

Plus depreciation on the car... which should be budgeted for around £5k a year.

Decals, team clothing, sponsor packs...

RickP

[Jonny Apex]

I think you'll find the Clios are selling for more than their original price. A friend of mine is trying to get into it and was told that everyones trying to do it next year. I think Renault did the cars for about £15000 at first but there now changing hands for a bit over £17000.

The racing is mega and its good to see so many top drivers doing it, I'm a bit suprised some of them get away with some of the things they do but it is the best racing at BTCC meetings.

Go Danny Buxton, win the title for us at Brands. You deserve it, but I did feel sorry for Martin Byford at Donington.

Rick P. If the V6's are banger racing why don't you come back to the 2 litres in Britain?

[RickP:Clio51]

Not wishing to be rude, but the V6 is a different world. Professional teams, professional organisation, huge crowds (35,000 at the last round), great race tracks, and top drivers (8 of the top ten finishers at the last round had F3000 experience).
So sometimes it gets a bit rough in the midfield and there is not the same discipline form the Clerks of the Course, but it feels a bit like men vs boys compared to the UK Clios...
One of the front runners in the 2 litre intl trophy which supports us just signed a Ferrari test contract and may get a Sauber race seat next year.
Guy I was dicing with earlier in the season (Bellichi) took advantage of a weekend off to go to Monza and in his first outing in Formula Nissan beat all-commers including Scheckter etc...
I was on the front row of the Clio Cup for 3 of the last 5 rounds in 2000, I've yet to qualify inside the top 20 for the Trophy. Although this basically comes down to car and track time as I have spent roughly 10% of the time at the wheel that I did last year...
Cheers
Rick
PS Last car to change hands was sold to Stancombe for £13,000...

[Jonny Apex]

I don't think the UK Clio teams would like to hear you say there not professionals! Particularly when one Clio V6 team turned up at Donington last year with 16 cars on the back of three car transporters!

I admit the V6s are mega to look at on and off the track, but quite a lot of them are sheds.

The Euro 2litre boy you were refering to is actually Felipe Massa's younger brother not Felipe Massa himself! I bet you any one of the top six Clio boys in Britain could go and win in European 2 litre Clio's.

[RickP:Clio51]

Felipe had a couple of outings earlier in the year...
Ferrari were at Jarama carrying contracts...
The UK boys would struggle... I assure you. None of the ones I raced against last year are good enough to win out there, and that includes Danny.
The Italian team to who you refer are long gone... the teams make the UK guys look pretty poor in some areas.
The V6 can look a bit rough, but when a shell is £5000+ compared to less than a grand for the UK, the tendancy to repair is high...
Rick

[Jonny b 61]

Originally posted by RickP:Clio51
Felipe had a couple of outings earlier in the year...
Ferrari were at Jarama carrying contracts...
The UK boys would struggle... I assure you. None of the ones I raced against last year are good enough to win out there, and that includes Danny.
The Italian team to who you refer are long gone... the teams make the UK guys look pretty poor in some areas.
The V6 can look a bit rough, but when a shell is £5000+ compared to less than a grand for the UK, the tendancy to repair is high...
Rick

Do all the engines now come from France or are there any quick uk motor's about still??

[RickP:Clio51]

All engines for both series are built and sealed in France.
RickP

[kaz]

Well all i can say....

is that the Clio Cup is stunning, i love it.
Whether the UK teams aren't as to standard compared to others (so rick states) i would much rather see the above than any alternative.

Amazing to watch, great fun, and even gets in more crowds than some of the others (obviously not touring).

Clio Cup is my favourite, above and beyond most others!

[RickP:Clio51]

I wouldn't want to go on record saying the UK teams aren't as good, just that the paddock quality and set-up is of a higher standard as you would expect from an International series where budgets are often significantly higher.
As was pointed out, some of the V6 cars look a little tired now, but believe me they are even more entertaining than the UK Clios!

That said, I still love the UK series, and I am hoping my old sparring partner Danny wins the Championship this weekend. I am even being approached by some teams about returning to drive in it next year...

Cheers
RickP

[Jonny b 61]

Originally posted by RickP:Clio51
I wouldn't want to go on record saying the UK teams aren't as good, just that the paddock quality and set-up is of a higher standard as you would expect from an International series where budgets are often significantly higher.
As was pointed out, some of the V6 cars look a little tired now, but believe me they are even more entertaining than the UK Clios!

That said, I still love the UK series, and I am hoping my old sparring partner Danny wins the Championship this weekend. I am even being approached by some teams about returning to drive in it next year...

Cheers
RickP

Do you qualify to get on the grid all the time? Because a freind of mine who races in that series V6 says that the grids have too many cars per race.

[danielbuxton]

Just caught up with the forum conversation after a lengthy lay off!

Cheers Jonny Apex for your support, I'm absolutely over the moon about winning the Championship. As you said, I really feel that I've been driving much better than last year.

Rick might be right about the V6 boys being class acts, I don't know as I've not seen them and he has been racing against them all year. What I can say is that running at the front now in the Clio Cup has been double as hard this year in comparison to last. Not taking anything away from Jim Jnr (who I actually rate v. highly) and Rick but the standard of competition this year has been immense. I've had to raise my game to a level I didn't think I could reach!! Mullen, Vercoe, Rivett and Myself have been taking up to ONE & HALF seconds off last years lap records!

I can take Rick's point though, the Clio V6 machine does look the dogs b*****ks. But you're not telling me that a driver like Tim Mullen who has already beaten Burti, Wheldon, Button, Hynes, Wilson etc to Championships wins, is not capable of going to drive in the V6 Series and doing very well??? Don't believe it.

[bella]

tim mullen is stupidly talented. he's very fast, but in the clios especially he seems to get into a lot of trouble, and then spends the rest of the race trying to get himself back up to the front (donington, for example..). he then ends up back where he started (usually about 4th?)

just from a spectators point of view the clios have been fantastic to watch, and if they're good to watch it must mean competition is high. some of the handbagging sessions have been very amusing to watch

and i have a strange urge to want to own a clio. the series has certainly taken away the girly image surrounding them

[Les]

I don't mind either series - in both the racing is good and tight which is what 99% of spectators want to see.

it is just upsetting that the UK branch allowed drivers to join for one race at the end of the season and affect the championship - Masini v Byford.

[RickP:Clio51]

I'm sorry guys. I do rate the Clio cup guys in the UK, especially Danny and Jim, but having seen the guys and the way they drive the V6's, which are not an easy thing to pedal, there are some pretty special drivers.
Don't forget Massa who just signed for Sauber, the guy who won that Championship (Euro F3000) the year before him races V6, the guy who thrashed the Formula Nissan regulars at Monza, Bellichi, races V6, but not at the front.
The Italian F3 Champion, previous race winners in French Touring Cars, and a total of 9 guys with F3000 experience have been on the grid this year. And they weren't trogging around at the back of F3000 either...
There are at least 5 guys who are knocking on the door of F1 test drives. You can't say that about the UK series.
But the UK Cup is very competitive, you have to be something pretty special to win and undoubtedly Danny deserves to go on to bigger and better things.
RickP

PS The only test I did in a 172 this year, I immediately found 1 sec with the new wheels/tyres and brakes... I don't think we sucked too badly last year....

[danielbuxton]

Hey, cheers Rick!!!!

The standard of competition in the V6 Series is obviously mega , this shows when you go from being a front-runner in one series to outside the top ten in the V6's. Renault UK do need to take a leaf out of the V6's in the hospitality set up they've got, that is worlds apart.

Its been a difficult year in the 172's and while coming out on top feels brilliant, it could all lead to nothing next year if there is a lack of cash!! Stupid really.

Ps, Get out in Fish's 172 boy!!!

[RickP:Clio51]

I do have an offer of a 172 drive in the UK for next year, at a reasonable price (but I think if I don't win early on, I might get dropped!)
Would ideally like to stay with Fishy because he is the best so trying to put a team together to race the Prod class of BTCC, PM me with how much your dynamic sponsor are prepared to chip in and I'll let you know how we get on!
No seriously, need to find some cash to put the plan together myself, usual problem for us racers I guess.
Rick

[Russfeld]

Ive got some questions about the Clio series...


This is what I know so far here in America. There are three European Renault championships. Formula Renault single seaters, and the two Clio championships. Clio's come in two forms 2 Litre FWD and V6 RWD. I dont know the specific # designations. Im interested in giving the European championships a go and Ive allready talked to Colin Stancombe and I was lucky enough to run into Mark Fish at Snetteron a few weeks ago. Do the UK teams run the Eurocups? Are they competitive? Do any run both. Who's the best 2 litre Eurocup team, who's the best V6 Eurocup team, etc etc. Just looking for entry level info. Thanks guys

[Les]

You want to speak to Mark Fish again.
He ran Rick Pearson in the British Clio 172 last year and in Europe this year in the V6. Rick has written a lot of articles on his 'antics' - go to the Parc Ferme section http://www.parcferme.com/Rick_Pearson/

Hope that helps...

[bella]

this seems a reasonable place to post this. has anyone any idea of an entry list for the clio winter series?

and btw, i was innocently looking through old autosports in a fit of insomnia, and horrors of horrors, i came across one report in the national section of a certain rick pearson winning and even getting drive of the day those were the days

[Les]

Well from my natters --
Paul Lomax was thinking about it
Ray Byford (father of Martin) should be but they were so p****ed off with losing the championship through Toby Masini they might not bother
Nick Leason (fiestas) if he finds the money
Colin Stancombe says he needs all the practice he can get
Bob Smith might if he is not too busy at work
I think Mark Fish said he was running someone