[LM24] New yellow flags rules

[PascaLM]

According to Endurance-Info, the safety car rules will be changed for 2014.
In case of crash, a "slow zone" will be set in which the speed will be limited at 60 km/h during the rehabilitation of the armco or track. The safety cars should enter the track for the setting of this zone.
Good thing in my opinion, but I hope that the duration of these "slow zones" won't exceed the time needed for the works. Five hours of safety cars in 2013 were pretty too much.

[Aysedasi]

Not sure I follow......

What they really need to do as well is take out safety cars B and C just before going green again so the train joins up.

[PascaLM]

The pace cars should not enter the track at the end of the yellow zone period and I think that three pace cars is better because :
- this avoids a single pack of cars and limit the risks of incidents,
- the fast pilots who made the gap don't have their efforts being ruined.

[GT6]

If the cars all joined up behind 1 pace car then some cars could lose almost a lap just because the lead pace car came out in front of them and the cars just in front of the pace cars will end up gaining a complete lap. Hate pace cars yes but get them out and back in as soon as possible so we have more racing

[Simmi]

Hopefully they can cover off a lot of accidents with the new yellow safety zones.

In theory it's such a big circuit they should be able to keep the race largely running unless there is an injury, multiple incidents etc.

[deggis]

About time.

[deggis]

In English:

A slow zone procedure will be introduced to reduce the impact of the safety cars on the track. The principle is as follows: in case of an incident necessitating the intervention of the marshals, technical and medical services, only a section of the circuit will be neutralised. In this zone cars can neither overtake nor exceed 60 km/h: outside this zone the race can continue as normal. If necessary [so PascaLM's translation is wrong/confusing], this slow zone may be preceded by a short neutralisation period with the safety cars covering the whole circuit.

http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/le...746_13554.html

The full supplementary regs are already out, in full detail starting from page 31:

http://www.24h-lemans.com/wpphpFichi...ns.pdf#page=31

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not sure I follow......

What they really need to do as well is take out safety cars B and C just before going green again so the train joins up.

You've been paying too much attention to Hindy - as GT6 says above, if you do that then you basically have the situation we had at Spa in the WEC, where the LMP2/GTE Am leaders were given a lap lead as they were just ahead of the overall leader when the SC came out.

At least the 3 SCs limit you to losing at most a third of a lap to the car ahead if the leader has just lapped you. Of course, code 60 over the whole lap / sections will hopefully limit the number of SCs but also keep the gaps similar to what they were before the encountered the SLOW zone.

[deggis]

This was hinted on DSC a while ago: https://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=18894

[Aysedasi]

OK, I understand now. And it sounds sensible.

[CTD]

It does!
Alle though the safety of the marshalls are reduced, with the elimination of longer racecar free periodes. However should there be any threat, I'm sure there will be put in Safety Cars.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not sure I follow......

What they really need to do as well is take out safety cars B and C just before going green again so the train joins up.

Exactly , Im surprised its been let go on the way it has been going on . Extreamly unfair ..... in my opinion .

Require a high level of accuracy from an onboard based marschall system .

GPS is accurate to whatever the ACO require now .

[Gingers4Justice]

This is long overdue.

I think people misunderstood Ayse. He wasn't calling just for one safety car, but for the second and third safety cars to pull off and let the field become one big train before restarting the race.

In a situation like we had at the start of this year's race, I think a safety car was absolutely needed.

Not sure the GTE Pro battle had to be split so crudely though.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I think people misunderstood Ayse. He wasn't calling just for one safety car, but for the second and third safety cars to pull off and let the field become one big train before restarting the race.

Exactly so.

[deggis]

In the supplementary regs it is mentioned that race director can extend the slow zone on the fly. If an incident happens on the straights quite a long zone might be needed, slowing down to 60km/h from full speed might be a bit hazard-prone? (Not many of the accidents seem to happen on the straights in the first place though...)

I can imagine safety cars will be put out still pretty easily but once the situation has calmed down, then being called in much sooner while the slow zone stays.

[Simmi]

I hope they can negate the need for the safety cars to roll back around to the point they initially pulled out of.

So if safety car A comes out at start/finish, that car (and train) had to be back at start/finish before it could go green. Same for the other two.

I still don't really get why that had to happen - apart from the fact the right safety car was parked in the right place?

If all the cars are equi-distant anyway then why not just set them off? Otherwise you can lose almost a lap of running just to get the cars in the right place.


I still think there will be a bit of pain and confusion initially in this system but it will be much better in the long-run.

[Aysedasi]

The safety car A driver always left his fags in the pitlane........ So he had to go back there.

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This is long overdue.

I think people misunderstood Ayse. He wasn't calling just for one safety car, but for the second and third safety cars to pull off and let the field become one big train before restarting the race.

Not sure the GTE Pro battle had to be split so crudely though.

I'm sorry but what is the difference between 1 SC for the entire duration and 3 SCs that become 1 SC and it ends up having all of the cars behind it? How would that prevent the situation I mentioned above where the P2 and GTE Am leaders got a lap advantage over their competitors at Spa?

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by Ginaro Zukovsky

I'm sorry but what is the difference between 1 SC for the entire duration and 3 SCs that become 1 SC and it ends up having all of the cars behind it? How would that prevent the situation I mentioned above where the P2 and GTE Am leaders got a lap advantage over their competitors at Spa?

Yes, I don't agree with cars grouping in one long line before the green flag. If a competitor gains half a lap between two pace-cars periods and if there are many neutralization periods, it would be only several seconds ahead instead of one or two full laps. So how the endurance spirit can win in that conditions ?

[Simmi]

The current rules are the best of a bad situation in terms of safety cars - the new 2014 rules are a great step forward in keeping the race going.

Like PascaLM says - this is endurance.

We want maximum full-speed mileage on the cars. Maximum chance for things to break, mistakes, tyre wear, consumption etc. We don't want Am drivers getting put in for hour-long pointless safety car stints. We don't want to be sat there in the cold and dark dozing off because there is nothing coming past for two minutes.

[Aysedasi]

Whichever way you play it with safety cars, someone wins and someone loses. We've all seen examples. Yes, you can lose a lead you've built up, but you can also acquire a very substantial loss created entirely by being picked up by the second safety car on a 13 km circuit. Its a no-win situation and you can argue it either way.....

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

Originally Posted by Simmi

The current rules are the best of a bad situation in terms of safety cars - the new 2014 rules are a great step forward in keeping the race going.

I don't think anyone will disagree with you.

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

We've all seen examples. Yes, you can lose a lead you've built up, but you can also acquire a very substantial loss created entirely by being picked up by the second safety car on a 13 km circuit. Its a no-win situation and you can argue it either way.....

Your examples leave out the suggestion you put forward in your previous post - that of using 1 SC instead of 3. Yes, in all SCs people will lose gaps they have built up - but it is wrong to put that up against the 3 SC scenario and call it no-win!

The real question is, whether being split up in the 3 SC or 1 SC scenario is better. With 3 SCs, you would be a third of the track behind the car that was just ahead of you. Not great, but it could worse - if you had just 1 SC, you you would have lost almost 1 lap (minus the length of the SC queue behind you) to the car you were just following. In this case, clearly 3 SCs are the least worst option.

[vincegail]

With Google, Volvo and every Tom, Dick and Harry developing self-riding cars at the moment, it won't be long before this system gets implemented in racing.
Not in racing itself (hopefully!!!!!!), but maintaining the distances/time differences between cars as they were just one second before the implementation of the yellow flag, until one second after the yellow flag.

[whitemr2]

Originally Posted by vincegail

With Google, Volvo and every Tom, Dick and Harry developing self-riding cars at the moment, it won't be long before this system gets implemented in racing.
Not in racing itself (hopefully!!!!!!), but maintaining the distances/time differences between cars as they were just one second before the implementation of the yellow flag, until one second after the yellow flag.

The perfect solution, no more discussion on (dis)advatage from fellow flags. Some safety issues need to be solved though. Bring on the future, as long as cars keep on making noise.

[PascaLM]

All the supplementary regulations 2014 here, including the "slow zones" (Art. 82)