Rules Bernie hints at 'Monday' post-GP testing

Marbot · 11 Oct 2009, 17:14 (Ref:2559073)

Mr Ecclestone suggests that testing the day after the race on Sunday is the probable route that F1 will take with regard to testing.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/153396/...an_for_f1.html

duke_toaster · 11 Oct 2009, 17:51 (Ref:2559091)

That is a logical way of doing things, would probably be cheaper than Friday cars or jetting off to Jerez.

Steven Humphrey · 11 Oct 2009, 17:54 (Ref:2559093)

Makes perfect sense-all the equipment & personnel are there already. I think Moto GP use the same system. And how about opening the gates for fans who couldn't afford the GP?

p-matt · 11 Oct 2009, 18:24 (Ref:2559103)

Wasn't the problem with this that the track gets too rubbered in by the end of a GP weekend that it wasn't useful to run.

How about doing a full practice day on the Thursday before a GP? Would the cars to too dialled into the circuit come Sunday?

**touringlegend** · 11 Oct 2009, 19:34 (Ref:2559130)

You could run a Thursday test and specify that a certain percentage of mileage must be done by drivers other than the main ones.

duke_toaster · 11 Oct 2009, 19:43 (Ref:2559142)

Or just ban race drivers from doing pre-race tests altogether. Allow each team to nominate two race drivers and two reserves (one under a specific age or no more than 2 GPs). The problem with Thursday is if your rookie wrote off one of the cars - perhaps Mondays are a better option ...

Teretonga · 11 Oct 2009, 19:44 (Ref:2559144)

Quote:

Originally Posted by touringlegend

You could run a Thursday test and specify that a certain percentage of mileage must be done by drivers other than the main ones.

There will always be the argument that rich teams gain an unfair advantage. The testing should always take place after the event or at a different venue than where the next race takes place.

Dead-Eye · 11 Oct 2009, 19:51 (Ref:2559148)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

The problem with Thursday is if your rookie wrote off one of the cars - perhaps Mondays are a better option ...

F1 teams are perfectly capable of building up a car within 24 hours. Worst case would be missing friday practice.

Satorian · 11 Oct 2009, 23:23 (Ref:2559297)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

F1 teams are perfectly capable of building up a car within 24 hours. Worst case would be missing friday practice.

Still worse than having four days to rebuild the car without missing any sessions.

Monday testing sounds great to me. There should also a minimum mileage be allotted to drivers other than the designated two race drivers to allow rookies and test drivers get some experience.

JABWOA · 11 Oct 2009, 23:43 (Ref:2559313)

But what about engine/gearbox rules? Or seperate engines limit for the test team? And designate only say 4-6 rounds have this testing ability - not all tracks are going to be able to support an extra day especially street tracks.

Marbot · 12 Oct 2009, 00:03 (Ref:2559323)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JABWOA

- not all tracks are going to be able to support an extra day especially street tracks.

Melbourne,Singapore and Monaco would definitely be out,as well as any 'back-to-back' races.But there's still quite a good few left to choose from,and some of them could do with the extra revenue.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 12 Oct 2009, 00:21 (Ref:2559334)

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-matt

Wasn't the problem with this that the track gets too rubbered in by the end of a GP weekend that it wasn't useful to run.

It's not impossible to clean the track up and as someone has already mentioned the team and all its personell are still there and with the race over the pressure is off, in case your rookie driver does prang the car on the Thursday before qualifying.

Nicholosophy · 12 Oct 2009, 01:05 (Ref:2559361)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Melbourne,Singapore and Monaco would definitely be out,as well as any 'back-to-back' races.But there's still quite a good few left to choose from,and some of them could do with the extra revenue.

That might not be the case. In Melbourne at least they could run on the Monday without too much extra hassle for anyone. It could be extra income for the organisers to help pay for the race.

They would begin packing up the circuit on the Tuesday, and they could still being working on non-track areas (spectator stand removal etc) when they are testing. Marshalls would be around and some would love to stay around for a test session the following day I'm sure.

Dead-Eye · 12 Oct 2009, 01:13 (Ref:2559366)

For next year it's a moot point anyway as Sepang will be only a week after Melbourne. Not enough time I think.

csirl · 12 Oct 2009, 10:22 (Ref:2559598)

Isnt there a simple solution to all this?

Teams can run an unlimited number of laps in Friday practices and all 3 drivers can drive. And can use any cars/engines/tyres they want, not just the chassis etc. due to race that weekend.

Marbot · 12 Oct 2009, 10:40 (Ref:2559608)

Quote:

Originally Posted by csirl

Isnt there a simple solution to all this?

Teams can run an unlimited number of laps in Friday practices and all 3 drivers can drive. And can use any cars/engines/tyres they want, not just the chassis etc. due to race that weekend.

The problem with that is that those that can afford to run all day Friday will do so,and therefore gain an advantage over the rest of the weekend.Not exactly 'green' or 'cost-cutting' friendly.Not sure which engines and gearboxes would be used either.

jab · 12 Oct 2009, 10:58 (Ref:2559624)

None of them would run all day with the current restrictions. They'd just stay in their garages for half the session as they do now, which would be a lot longer

Oh and they'd all end up with perfected setups and the races would be processions

Oh and what about support race sessions on a Friday?

ECW Dan Selby · 12 Oct 2009, 11:37 (Ref:2559665)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

None of them would run all day with the current restrictions. They'd just stay in their garages for half the session as they do now, which would be a lot longer

Oh and they'd all end up with perfected setups and the races would be processions

Oh and what about support race sessions on a Friday?

My goodness, you mean they can actually get worse..?

Selby

duke_toaster · 12 Oct 2009, 14:29 (Ref:2559838)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JABWOA

But what about engine/gearbox rules? Or seperate engines limit for the test team? And designate only say 4-6 rounds have this testing ability - not all tracks are going to be able to support an extra day especially street tracks.

Separate engine and gearbox quota for testing. To be honest with the gearboxes it would be sensible to go down the X per season route like the engines rather than the race drops. Then again, ideally the engine penalties would be WCC based not grid drop based.

csirl · 12 Oct 2009, 14:52 (Ref:2559860)

Quote:

Oh and what about support race sessions on a Friday?

I did envisage changing the practice duration/times, so the usual timetable would apply. I was thinking that the limited practice time i.e. 2 x 90min sessions would reduce the costs - most teams should be able to keep 2-3 cars running for this length of time.

Steven Humphrey · 12 Oct 2009, 14:52 (Ref:2559861)

I've been thinking a bit more about this and can see a few downsides now. Firstly, can we really expect team personnel to work for another day after an incredibly busy 4 days (if anyone wants to see how hard mechanics work, read 'a mechanics tale' be Steve Matchett, a great read)? If a seperate test team is used, as used to be the case, then expenses will rocket again, giving the bigger teams an advantage once again.

The earlier comment about marshals staying on is pretty much irrelevant, as test sessions are usualy covered by permanent circuit staff.

There should be time on a Friday (well there is/was at Silverstone) to increase the practise sessions and if they were open to third drivers, that would be better than the current set up. What we don't need is the richer teams getting a huge advantage just because they can afford it. Sure they get an advantage anyway but keeping this to a minimum is essential.

Teretonga · 12 Oct 2009, 19:53 (Ref:2560098)

Quote:

Originally Posted by csirl

Isnt there a simple solution to all this?

Teams can run an unlimited number of laps in Friday practices and all 3 drivers can drive. And can use any cars/engines/tyres they want, not just the chassis etc. due to race that weekend.

You would effectively have to bring the test team to the race and accomodate them at inflated prices....
Basically, it is not logisitically practical.

Running the race cars the day after the race and keeping at least one of the drivers occupied for the following day plus any third drivers present at the race is a simple but effective way of doin git. Times can be measured against what has already gone on in the preceding three days and data compatred against the data already gathered.

It wouldn't be super practical for many of the flyaway races or street races but those in Europe on permanent circuits would certainly be in line for it and if notified before the start of the season, say 8 2 day test sessions across the season, it would resolve some of the problems that have arisen this year.

Dead-Eye · 12 Oct 2009, 22:20 (Ref:2560202)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnage arnie

Firstly, can we really expect team personnel to work for another day after an incredibly busy 4 days (if anyone wants to see how hard mechanics work, read 'a mechanics tale' be Steve Matchett, a great read)?

Sportscar teams regularly test at Sebring on monday after the 12 hours. Granted, the race is on Saturday, but they also start work at the track earlier in the week.

Teretonga · 13 Oct 2009, 03:48 (Ref:2560333)

Staff isn't a major problem.
If the race team is too tired they could have a skeleton crew brought in for the testing sessions. They wouldn't have to be a dedicated test team, just some appropriately qualified extras.

Leighton Irwin · 13 Oct 2009, 06:15 (Ref:2560365)

I feel there are disadvantages to both pre race testing and post.
Testing on Thurs. or Fri. will basically mean just setting the cars up for the race. Usually when you want to test you want to try out something new. That would not happen with Thurs. running or rarely.
Running on the Mon. would allow for testing or development but you would have a tired bunch of mechanics and probably a few that were hungover.
Tired mechanics make mistakes. Remember they will be often fitting new and different parts. Aside from bring tired and/or hungover there is the invariable letdown after a race.
If memory serves me correctly are not the teams being restricted in the number of staff at a race next year.
Steve Matchett, as already mentioned points out in his books just how beat the crews often are by the end of a race weekend.
I was not a F1 mechanic but I was a race mechanic for about 25 years and I can assure you I sure as heck would not have wanted to get a car ready for testing the day after a race.
Not only are the crew tired so are the regular drivers and the cars have just had 3 days of hard running. Who wants to do an engine gearbox swap and a complete check of the car right after a race?
My feeling is a few specific test days during the season, especialy when there is a break, would make more sense. It could be limited to tracks they have already run at or will not use that year.

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