LMS Round 2: Monza, April 25-27, 2008

[Tom87]

Hi all, as a long long time lurker on this site I've decided to pitch in with a few of my opinions on the weekends action.

I would have to disagree that Monza and in particular the first turn could be improved by either additional gravel traps or tarmac run off. The Oreca shunt was a freak accident which may never be replicated at that corner, far more often, crashes at that turn involve several cars losing it under braking and collecting each other. In this case tarmac in place of grass on the left and right of the track would provide almost no retardation to a car missing its wheels and therefore increase the chance of a car collecting another further around the corner. As others have already mentioned, gravel would be impractical and probably would have done little to reduce the severity of Ortelli's accident.

In my opinion the fact that the track doubles back on itself before continuing in the same direction as the s/f straight reduces the chance of injury in a single car accident as the effective run off area is very large, had the failure occured at for example Silverstone's stowe corner, the car would most likely have reached the barriers at a much higher speed and closer to perpendicular. Frankly given the initial speed of the car its a miracle that the accident wasn't dramatically worse - Kovalinnen's crash was only an estimated impact speed of 80mph but he suffered head injury due to the dramatic deceleration. Ortelli was lucky in that the deceleration took place over a much larger distance as there were no solid objects for him to collide with until the catch fence on the far side of the chicane.

As for the aerodynamics of the cars, I was concerned that in all three accidents the cars tended to produce lift when travelling sideways, but although I agree further study is required, a quick look at YouTube video's of crashes from either the Group C or GT1 era's shows the progress made in terms of aerodynamic design.

[Tom87]

After all that talkign about crashes I guess I ought to say something about the rest of the race!

I was most impressed with the determination of the Audi drivers when coming back through the field, it caught my attention that they were able to make steady progress early in the race when for example the Lola Aston was held up for many laps by the Epsilon, Creation, Pescarolo midfield.

Speaking of which the Lola Aston was stunning again, although they were never really likely to challenge the Diesels over 6 hours it was great to see them leading and more importantly lapping quicker in clean air than both Audi's early in the race.

[old man]

Not wishing to change the subject folks but was there more than one way to get live timing? I used the link on the LMS website but that timing screen was very poor and the gap time confused this old man. I was reading a gap of just tenths between certain cars when in fact it was 24 seconds or therabouts I have subsequently found. It did not seem to update on a consistent basis either

Any advice please?

[brielga]

Originally Posted by old man

Not wishing to change the subject folks but was there more than one way to get live timing? I used the link on the LMS website but that timing screen was very poor and the gap time confused this old man. I was reading a gap of just tenths between certain cars when in fact it was 24 seconds or therabouts I have subsequently found. It did not seem to update on a consistent basis either

Any advice please?

use the RIS site

[prototype]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

Once again I have to disagree with comments along the lines of those by prototype (although looking at how the aerodynamics could have contributed to the accidents is always prudent) and agree with the likes of JAG in that any car of an LMP's nature would get airborne in the Campbell-Walter and Ortelli situations. The role of the car's aerodynamics has to be to limit the extent of the car's ability to take to the air (and stay in the air once it gets there) and in all three accidents at Monza I give the LMP aerodynamics more than a passing grade.

I want to stress that I did not say we should make changes. What I do want is someone with an expertise in aero take a look at these accidents where the LMPs lift off the ground and determine if there is anything we can do to limit the quantity of these airborne accidents.

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by prototype

I want to stress that I did not say we should make changes. What I do want is someone with an expertise in aero take a look at these accidents where the LMPs lift off the ground and determine if there is anything we can do to limit the quantity of these airborne accidents.

Well we are both in agreement on that! Hopefully Mike will stop by soon or write something on Mulsanne's Corner...

[Mal]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

Well we are both in agreement on that! Hopefully Mike will stop by soon or write something on Mulsanne's Corner...

He has made comment in the separate discussion thread I started

[deggis]

Great photos:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/gallery.php?num=11951

[The Badger]

What does that pic suggest ..... first we had petrol , then diesel and the next is steam !!!

[brielga]

Wouter must have got lost in the Italian bushes, and those damn media shuttles never showing up!!!

[TWRv12]

Anyone know why Motorsport News(uk) didn't cover the event? Maybe I'm blind but I couldn't any race report in at all, just a tiny, tiny note in the news section.

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Anyone know why Motorsport News(uk) didn't cover the event? Maybe I'm blind but I couldn't any race report in at all, just a tiny, tiny note in the news section.

Because motorsport news is toilet paper.

frankly. Does sports car racing exist?

no. does european motor racing exist?

no. does american racing rule the world?

yes it does.

is every year a classic year in the btcc? if you read the rag, yes.

is lewis hamilton god? yes.

Stupid rag.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Anyone know why Motorsport News(uk) didn't cover the event? Maybe I'm blind but I couldn't any race report in at all, just a tiny, tiny note in the news section.

While Motorsport News (uk) may not have covered Monza very well, Motorsport.com: News channel had two nice feature articles:

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...=287071&FS=LMS

and

http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...=287119&FS=LMS

and also many team reports.

DK

[Samoan Attorney]

Motoring News is a business owned by Haymarket Publishing, like Autosport and F1 Racing.

The business plan as I understand it is that MN covers UK and club racing as a primary focus.........Autosport addresses the other areas not included in MN's remit.

I expect that this plan is cost driven as much as anything else or perhaps the attempt to create a USP for the publication. Having the expense of two sets of staff covering the same European series would not anything to the bottom line of the group, you can bet the beancounters have done the maths.

As an aside I would question the wisdom of an aspiring professional photographer insulting one of the few outlets in the UK for his work. In my experience editors are a thin skinned bunch, particularly when it comes to contributors.

In the interests of balance there was plenty of coverage from Monza on the internet so plugging one site seems outside of the rules of this forum particularly as these other sites actually had staff at the circuit and got their information more or less first hand.

Try

http://www.endurance-info.com/
http://www.planetlemans.com/
http://www.project-lemans.de/
http://www.racingworld.it/fiagt/
http://www.pitlanevision.com
http://www.dailysportscar.com
http://www.sportscarpros.com

All the colours, all the sizes.............all the tongues......

[TWRv12]

Will be interesting to see if Autosport or MN do a LeMans guide this year. I think both have lost circulation, shame, seems quality is suffering to. Used to be great back in the day when they were rivals. Now Hayshed has crippled MN a bit (almost nothing online), but Autosport has got worse too.

Think I'll have to sign up for DSC one of the days.

[sssssssss]

Interesting though, looking at the (ACO's?) official timing and scoring of the 1000km of Monza this year, the Peugeots, that everybody expected to be the quickest in a straight line (even the televisions had telemetry on the Peugeots and on the Pescarolo - the second as to notice the great difference between the diesels and the petrol cars I suppose) actually had slightly lower top speed than the Audi R10s in every single session, including the race. So the highest trap speed at Monza this year was a fabulous one: 323 km/h by the Audi R10 TDi in the race. I guess the previous years didn't have too much in common with this kind of numbers at Monza.
Will it be the same for Le Mans? I'm thinking, well, if Monza has a couple of very slow and nasty chicanes that the superior downforce of the Peugeot 908 could take advantage from as compared to the R10, Le Mans hasn't got any. Even the Mulsanne corner and the Arnage corner aren't corners that mean too much in terms of time in the economy of a lap at La Sarthe. Last year, Audi were consistently doing 338-339 km/h on the Mulsanne, while Peugeot did 339 km/h once, and than only 335 km/h and slower. If Audi continues to be faster in a straight line this year too, the difference we see in LMS between the R10 and the 908 might be very much diminished at Le Mans.

[boesel]

Great photos could be found here: www.connectingrod.it

[bil588]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Reading an Oreca update on Endurance-Info.com, it seems the failure at the rear of the car (which led to the accident) was the result of contact made with a GT car through the previous sequence of bends.

And good news regarding Stephane; he'll miss Spa (where just one car will be entered), but the doctors are reasonably optimistic about his chances of being fit in time for Le Mans.

Was in contact with a GT car in Monza or Spain?

After analysis of the datas and images, Team ORECA-Matmut returned to the causes of the exit ramp of the No. 5: "after contact with a GT in the previous rounds, self underwent a sudden loss of airport charge at the rear wing. "

http://translate.google.com/translat...e.php?sid=5492

[brielga]

Originally Posted by bil588

Was in contact with a GT car in Monza or Spain?

After analysis of the datas and images, Team ORECA-Matmut returned to the causes of the exit ramp of the No. 5: "after contact with a GT in the previous rounds, self underwent a sudden loss of airport charge at the rear wing. "

http://translate.google.com/translat...e.php?sid=5492

after contact with a GT in the previous LAPS, bad translator man!

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by brielga

after contact with a GT in the previous LAPS, bad translator man!

That's an awesome translator mistake. And a rather valid correction.

[TWRv12]

Ortelli's crash made it on to the monologue on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno (2nd May). Apparently Stefan's problem was he was on a mobile phone, and driving an Audi too!

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Holt

I have no sound on, I turned radio lemans off after here him use these rediculous nick names like 'Rocky'. I saw the stop go graphic appear right after he passed the audi after overshooting the chicane

Imagine if formula 1 announcers followed internet lingo and started to call michael schumacher 'Schuey' during the race and others called the Peugeot 'Pug'...omg

You become famous

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by FIRE

You become famous

I know! Absolutely love Hindy for that. What a man!

[minimangler]

And i'm famous too he read out my text.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by minimangler

I know! Absolutely love Hindy for that. What a man!

What did he say? Spent the today at the Ring...