[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by TF110

Are you familiar with American football? NFL trumps WEC, thats why there was only a small number of spectators. Staging an event on a Sunday during NFL season is not wise for a lesser known motorsport. F1 might get away with it, but even that was down from last year.

Exactly, not only nfl but also mlb with each sport having two teams in TEXAS. The wec underestimated the date,timing,and location of racing in the United States.

I guess it's easier to blame alms than admit they scheduled the wrong track at The wrong time.if they plan on running at cota then they should run in the spring or in the hot summer,because it's Texas and football and baseball get all the attention.

[chernaudi]

IMSA isn't very impressed, either, with some things that COTA management pulled. I don't see this as the WEC blaming the ALMS, but both IMSA and the FIA/ACO blaming COTA management, and both are using that to cover up the fact that, though some of their complaints obviously hold some water, that both did mess up with when they scheduled the race.

And according to John, both the WEC and TUSCC are ready to leave COTA in the dust if something can't be worked out between all three factions.

[TF110]

Both races on Saturday is unrealistic. One had to be on Sunday going up against major professional sporting events on the same day/time. Who knows who is really at fault? Does it matter? Hopefully they shake hands and quit the blame game, if not I hear Road America is making some updates to their track

[chernaudi]

Strange statistic for trivia buffs: It seems that Audi/Joest Racing, at least among the prototypes, has run fastest lap in every race they've run in races that was run in anger this year, including Sebring.

I don't think that one manufacturer or team had locked that up in recent years. Last time I think that happened in the ALMS was 2001 (again Audi and Joest) and in the ELMS/LMS in 2008 with Peugeot. Can't remember the last time in the WEC/WSC it happened, but certianly not recently, since there was almost a 20 year gap between the last WSC race and the first WEC race after it's re-establishment.

Any guesses on when the last time a manufacturer and/or team captured fast lap in every race run in the World Championship. Probably not since 1983 would be my guess, and that's probably wrong knowing me.

[chunterer]

Yes I would think it's back to the 956 days or possibly the C9 or C11 years?

[JacobP]

I am curious why so many people were attending the international sports car weekend at COTA on Saturday for ALMS race but not as many on Sunday for WEC race.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by JacobP

I am curious why so many people were attending the international sports car weekend at COTA on Saturday for ALMS race but not as many on Sunday for WEC race.

See above.

[TRspitfirefan]

Originally Posted by JacobP

I am curious why so many people were attending the international sports car weekend at COTA on Saturday for ALMS race but not as many on Sunday for WEC race.

I think that the ACO/FIA wrongly assumed that the WEC would be considered the headlining event for the weekend.
What they didn't realize, is that the ALMS had an established devoted fan base, many of whom still think that the ALMS was the better racing series.(Despite the WEC being a "world championship".)
The WEC has a long way to go, before they attract the same level of enthusiasm from American fans, that the ALMS had.

[chernaudi]

I'd bet that most of the fans who attended are those who are still fans of Audi even after they defected from the ALMS. Fourtitude, the Audi fansite, did make a big deal of COTA. But outside of Audi fans and the few WEC fans, most American sports car fans think of Le Mans and the ALMS, and nothing else matters, or has even been heard of.

The WEC is sort of in NA making the same mistake that ALMS did with relying on OEMs to do most of the promotion, and Grand Am with their NASCAR drivers by relying on their World Championship status and having Audi, Porsche and Toyota and their star drivers in the series.

[TheMightyM]

It's too simple to just blame football and baseball for the WEC’s attendance problem at COTA. There’s more to it than that:

1. COTA had a lot of significant events in 2013: Grand Am in March, Moto GP in April, V8 Super Cars in May, ALMS/WEC in September, F1 in November. It way well be the case that there isn’t enough local/regional money and interest to support all those events. That NASCAR and IndyCar also have races in Texas doesn’t help.

2. Being the last of the non-F1 events through Austin this year very likely contributed to the difficulty in marketing the ALMS/WEC event. It’s the fifth different new flavor of racing through town since COTA opened. If you consider ALMS and WEC significantly different, make that the fifth and sixth flavors to come to Austin.

3. The WEC has low brand awareness in the US. Actually, it's not that great a draw anywhere but Le Mans.

4. The idea of an endurance double-header in the US is questionable. I'm not sure what TUSC gets out of it — it needs to be able to make an event in Texas work on its own, and COTA is probably the best place to do that. TUSC running there effectively as a support race (which is WEC's vision apparently) doesn't doesn’t help its brand a bit. As for WEC, it doesn't seem to want to admit that what TUSC brings going forward is more of a crowd than the WEC draws.

5. Possibly the best solution would be for TUSC to race at COTA earlier in the year (say April or May) if possible and for WEC to run someplace that TUSC doesn't run. Say Sonoma in August or September.

6. WEC and Indycar sharing a weekend is unlikely to happen as the two will fight over who is the headliner.

[Gingers4Justice]

You don't always have to fight over who's the headline. Some of the best meetings I've been to were when there was no obvious headliners - ALMS/FIA GT in 2000, and the FIA GT/ETCC days too were fabulous meetings and they attracted a lot of people to them.

[JoestForEver]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

You don't always have to fight over who's the headline. Some of the best meetings I've been to were when there was no obvious headliners - ALMS/FIA GT in 2000, and the FIA GT/ETCC days too were fabulous meetings and they attracted a lot of people to them.

They are basically different series with one complimenting the other, which is fantastic. However, the problem with WEC is that FIA is too confident with themselves, they firmly believe they are better than ALMS, which is not true.
IMO I love the Petit Le Mans way much more than the WEC, there are simply more 'race'. In the WEC, however, it seems that most of the race is either determined by strategy or pure advantage which shows in the early stage of a race. All we have to do next is watching flying P1 lapping others and wait for a mechanical malfunction from Toyota or Audi. That is why Sao Paulo, Bahrain, Fuji and probably Spa sucks and why the Le mans 2013 and 2011 is great.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

They are basically different series with one complimenting the other, which is fantastic. However, the problem with WEC is that FIA is too confident with themselves, they firmly believe they are better than ALMS, which is not true.
IMO I love the Petit Le Mans way much more than the WEC, there are simply more 'race'. In the WEC, however, it seems that most of the race is either determined by strategy or pure advantage which shows in the early stage of a race. All we have to do next is watching flying P1 lapping others and wait for a mechanical malfunction from Toyota or Audi. That is why Sao Paulo, Bahrain, Fuji and probably Spa sucks and why the Le mans 2013 and 2011 is great.

Nail on the head, exactly why I now chose not to wake up at 3 am or wait until 2am to watch a race where I will know who will win within the first hour.yes some one else may win with an incident or break down,but that's not exciting to watch.the Audi/Toyota strategy battle is exciting to watch but we know who will always win on track.

Now sebring.le mans, and petit,those are races worth taking a day off work to watch.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

They are basically different series with one complimenting the other, which is fantastic. However, the problem with WEC is that FIA is too confident with themselves, they firmly believe they are better than ALMS, which is not true.
IMO I love the Petit Le Mans way much more than the WEC, there are simply more 'race'. In the WEC, however, it seems that most of the race is either determined by strategy or pure advantage which shows in the early stage of a race. All we have to do next is watching flying P1 lapping others and wait for a mechanical malfunction from Toyota or Audi. That is why Sao Paulo, Bahrain, Fuji and probably Spa sucks and why the Le mans 2013 and 2011 is great.

If the powers that be don't believe themselves that their package is better than the ALMS, then the WEC is doomed, whether it is in reality or not. Of course, we all know the WEC has many shortcomings, and I can see why it's not the most attractive series to watch right now. The racing, though, isn't terrible. The cars are interesting. And it's a World Championship. But if it's to keep that status, then the organisers need to have enough confidence to go with it, and that involves making some tough decisions and being almost arrogant sometimes.

I'm a firm believer in the WEC, and I know it's not brilliant at the moment. But it feels special, and exciting, being one of the few people staying up for the races in its fledgling days. I hope it will be rewarding.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

They are basically different series with one complimenting the other, which is fantastic. However, the problem with WEC is that FIA is too confident with themselves, they firmly believe they are better than ALMS, which is not true.

That's the issue, exactly.

[FstrthnU]

I think there's a difference between wanting/planning to be better than your rival and thinking you are better even when you aren't. The FIA and ACO have to be confident, but not cocky and dismissive of faults

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by TF110

Are you familiar with American football? NFL trumps WEC, thats why there was only a small number of spectators. Staging an event on a Sunday during NFL season is not wise for a lesser known motorsport. F1 might get away with it, but even that was down from last year.

That isn't true as Austin is college football country and there were 100k fans at the Longhorns game in Austin on Saturday during the ALMS race.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

You don't always have to fight over who's the headline. Some of the best meetings I've been to were when there was no obvious headliners - ALMS/FIA GT in 2000, and the FIA GT/ETCC days too were fabulous meetings and they attracted a lot of people to them.

The WEC needs USCC to have long term viable event here. I suspect they will even have trouble attracting die hard fans on their own unless they can improve their TV exposure. Arguing over who is the headline event does neither series any good.

Hopefully something was lost in translation, but I read Neveu's comments as, "We want the American sportscar fans, but don't want to deal with their series".

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

They are basically different series with one complimenting the other, which is fantastic. However, the problem with WEC is that FIA is too confident with themselves, they firmly believe they are better than ALMS, which is not true.
IMO I love the Petit Le Mans way much more than the WEC, there are simply more 'race'. In the WEC, however, it seems that most of the race is either determined by strategy or pure advantage which shows in the early stage of a race. All we have to do next is watching flying P1 lapping others and wait for a mechanical malfunction from Toyota or Audi. That is why Sao Paulo, Bahrain, Fuji and probably Spa sucks and why the Le mans 2013 and 2011 is great.

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Nail on the head, exactly why I now chose not to wake up at 3 am or wait until 2am to watch a race where I will know who will win within the first hour.yes some one else may win with an incident or break down,but that's not exciting to watch.the Audi/Toyota strategy battle is exciting to watch but we know who will always win on track.

Now sebring.le mans, and petit,those are races worth taking a day off work to watch.

I knew who would win PLM quite early on in the race too... and at Sebring, I knew who would win a few months in advance when the entry list came out.

I watched most of both PLM and Sebring this year and though the close racing was fine, it was mostly fake, created by constant safety cars and wave arounds. You can complain about the WEC, but any series will have field spread if you have continuous uninterrupted racing.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

That isn't true as Austin is college football country and there were 100k fans at the Longhorns game in Austin on Saturday during the ALMS race.

True, but college is not equal to baseball + professional football + Nascar. Dallas had a home game the same day which draws huge numbers from all over Texas, the Texas Rangers were in the playoff race, Sunday is Nascar day as well and it was race 2 of the chase. Lots of venues to go up against. And one of them was another form of racing. We will see how popular it is next year. I dont think Texas is the best state to hold a WEC Sportscar race in tbh.

[chernaudi]

COTA is the only track in the US other than the IMS USGP circuit to have Grade 1 ratings from the FIA. And the FIA/ACO currently have a fetish with racing at F1/Grade 1 tracks. Only other Grade 1 tracks in North America are Mexico City (when the pit complex is finished) and Montreal.

However, the FIA only requires a Grade 2 or above for the WEC to race, and most North American circuits meet that rating. However, the WEC will have to move away from their established pattern of racing at F1 tracks if they want to move away from COTA, because I can't see the WEC racing at Indy, or even possibly Montreal, even if they had a WSC race there in the past (1990).

[TF110]

Indy is grade 1. They dont HAVE to run on that high level of track. Its just the tracks they choose now.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Edit: responding to post #3819

Yea that's true for sebring since Peugeot dropped out any race with Audi is a given,and I have no problem admitting alms p1 was crap.petit p1 was dissapointing.but everything else was not and who would have guessed the out come.

Alms cota went uninterrupted and had great racing and was close in gtlm.any racing series can go uninterrupted if they only race on tracks with acres of paved run off that reward crap driving.

And it's grand ams wave arounds that create fake racing,alms wave arounds prevented unfair advantages. Unlike the dumb safety car rules at Le Mans that split the gt field, and ruind the gte pro race within the first hour(even though we knew who was really in the race given the bop days before Le Mans) and how many hours of safety car period did Le Mans have.again any race will go uninterrupted if they raced with so muuuuch run off.

[Pandemonium]

You guys must be joking. The fia f1 and Wec should only race at the Top circuits just because of what they represent. And the fia wec its growing and getting good and promissing that fans are increasing fast. Plus very little circuits can surpass the beauty of grade 1 ones. (Nurburgring). Also think of safety

[Maelochs]

WEC "represents" a sports car world championship---continuing the same sports car world championship tradition which traditionally raced at Sebring and Daytona--yeah, such beautiful circuits.

As for safety, Audi raced at all those Grade Two circuits for a decade in ALMS and there were no incidents. Audi and Peugeot slugged it out at Sebring and Road Atlanta with no safety issues. And really, how "beautiful" is CotA anyway? How "beautiful" is Shanghai?

Does anyone really think WEC would lose prestige if it raced at Sebring? Laguna Seca? Road America? How about Watkins Glen? (Last I heard, WEC was considering Road America---somebody needs to set them straight about how that would hurt its image.)

One of the reasons WEC has been racing at F1 circuits is because in many countries, there is only one track which can support a race of any real magnitude. Also, in many countries that track is the only one with a budget to promote a WEC race (not that that seems to matter, given the crowds they don't attract.)

I fully understand that WEC is a World Championship, and ELMS, AsLMS, and TUSC are regional series. WEC carries more prestige and earns it, if only because of the factory involvement in P1 (otherwise, it is some of the same teams and drivers as in other series, in the same cars---Lieb and Lietz might be quicker than Long and Holzer, but when ILMC raced with ALMS, the ILMC teams didn't have any edge.)

Still, WEC needs to work a lot harder to promote itself ... and racing at Road America or Sebring wouldn't hurt that effort in the U.S.