Massa vs Heidfeld

[flashF1]

I think both are talented drivers, whose stocks have increased substantially this year. I believe the reasons are obvious. Massa has stood his ground against an ex. WDC whilst Hedfield has in many peoples eyes held his own against a very talented driver in Mark Webber.

In your opinion who do you rate higher Massa or Hedfield?

[TheNewBob]

I'm not sure. But I'd rate *Heidfeld quite highly instead...

[Adam43]

Bob, everyone has the odd typo. (thread title change though)

I'd rate Heidfeld over Massa too. By a little. Massa for me is an unknown. He is fast occassionally, but more often than not seems to over-drive. He doesn't flow with the car as much as others, always three or four stearing inputs when one would have done! However I will always like him for being the only driver to overtake at Imola in '02.

I doubt Heidfeld is the greatest, but he is very quick and more consistent. In addition I'd prefer to have him developing my car than Massa.

Massa was chosen by Ferrari, although I wouldn't read too much into this. Not because of the Todt family ties, but many of the top drivers rules themselves out of a drive because of Michael's presence. So I am not sure that Massa was the top of Ferrari's list for '06, rather the highest they could get.

Heidfeld over Massa for me.

[TheNewBob]

Very true - sure I've also had many a typo too!

I'd generally rate Heidfeld a little bit more - he's done very well against Webber, I'm pretty sure before the season started that many thought Webber would trounce the man. Massa does have a team mate whom a lot of people doubt, but it has to be said Villeneuve has upped his game somewhat as this year has progressed. That said, Massa has had the upper hand mostly I feel.

I think Nick and Felipe are pretty evenly matched drivers though and whilst I'd maybe vote for Nick, I wouldn't put money on it because I'm not sure of the outcome.

[BootsOntheSide]

I'd have to rate Nick as the better driver. He has really impressed at Williams, not only with his speed but also with his determination and analytical nature, which the team feel has been a great help. He seems to have had a kanck of not getting into incidents or amking mistakes (until recently), and it would be a shame if he struggles for resutls at BMW over the next few years. Massa is faster and not as wild as before, but has a habit of making msitakes when things are reaklly on the line, especially tactically.

[JeremySmith]

I feel the same way as Adam and Boots. One of Nick's qualities seems to be his ability to put his head down and get on with the job of driving therefore giving his engineers very useful feedback without all of the chit chat. While I am pleased for Felipe Massa going to Ferrari I don't read too much into it.

"Quick Nick" gets my vote.

[Marbot]

I'm tiring of these 'driver vs driver' and 'so and so is crap' threads.It would all be relevant if they were all driving the same car and had equal equipment with no team orders.But it's not and they don't so there are.So stop it!

[Inigo Montoya]

I rate them both very highly. I expect Massa to do very well at Ferrari next year. I think Michael will be unpleasantly surprised. Heidfeld has impressed me since the days he was teamed up with Kimi.

[Dani Filth]

i really don't know who to chose .
i like Massa more thought . but i dont think we've seen the best of Massa .. i think he could surprise a few next year with Ferrari . for sure not that close to Michael . but a similar job like Rubens did in his years . a good nr.2

[Snrub]

I think Massa is a solid driver, but I can't recall anything that seemed overly brilliant besides the odd lap.

I've seen plenty of special things from Heidfeld. Also worth mentioning is multple podiums and a poll position. He also showed favorably compared to Kimi (who most rate highly) and HHF (who I think was a terrific driver).

[Kirk]

Heidfeld's experience gives him the edge but I think Webber had a point earlier this year when he ridiculed his aggression (or lack thereof). Massa, on the other hand has no fear and will, imo, only get better. He seems to have licked his erratic driving that plagued him a few years ago and should thrive with the Ferrari expertise, big budget and MS as his teammate. Watch out Mikey.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

I'm tiring of these 'driver vs driver' and 'so and so is crap' threads.It would all be relevant if they were all driving the same car and had equal equipment with no team orders.But it's not and they don't so there are.So stop it!

But don't you see Martyn, we're desperately trying to avoid the fact that today's F1 is LARGELY about engineering... and the driver, as long as he is competent, is becoming more and more insignificant. It is hard to admit, you see, but with the FIA unwilling or unable to ban driver aids, you're right: We can't accurately compare any drivers head-to-head by results alone.

[Adam43]

Yes, it was so much easier to compare in the fifties, say, when Fangio was in a Mercedes, Behra in a Maserati and Trintignant in a Ferrari. How has the FIA let this happen?

[Suze]

I rate them both highly, but probably Massa slightly more...it is hard to do driver v driver when they're not in the same equipment etc but you could argue if they were in the same equipment the wind could be going 0.5m/s quicker when the second driver went out etc so nothing'll ever be fair! They're both done well this season, Webber hasn't been as good as I expected to be fair and to judge Heidfeld against as well, but will be interesting to see how Massa does next season in the Ferrari.

[mac]

If I had a team and one seat available and these two were the only two on the market, I would be telling my finance people to make sure they get something sorted out for Nick.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Suze

but will be interesting to see how Massa does next season in the Ferrari.

He'll do as well as he can under the circumstances.But will it be a fair comparison to TGF who has been there since 96.I don't think he has what it takes,IMO he only just scrapes into the top 10 F1 drivers currently racing.But he'll have a better car than some better drivers and that will make him look good even if he gets nowhere near TGF.

[SpawnyWhippet]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

But he'll have a better car than some better drivers and that will make him look good even if he gets nowhere near TGF.

On the contrary, I think to look good he will need to be somewhere near MS, otherwise people will blame his performance on the car.

[joe rossi]

Nick for me too. Massa just hasn't done enough for me to prove his worth yet. I'm not saying he's useless, but on the other hand he hasn't really achieved much either, especially a Ferrari drive on merit alone. (I agree that no top level driver will ever go there and play second fiddle).

Nick did some very good things in a c**p Prost, and a c**p Jordan and hung in there to get noticed enough for the Williams drive. He may never be WDC, but he is certainly in the top ten drivers in my book, and an ideal fit for BMW.

[Gt_R]

I'd rather prefer Nick in a Ferrari than Massa.

But if Ferrari thinks Massa is up to it, i'd at least give him a chance to prove his worth.

[Mattracer]

Both have been picked up for next year but for different reasons. Heidfeld to provide continuity for BMW and lead their direction and Massa to follow Schumacher around and gain more experience. A difference there.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by mac

If I had a team and one seat available and these two were the only two on the market, I would be telling my finance people to make sure they get something sorted out for Nick.

But some would argue that that would be the easy, safe route. Nick's pretty much a known commodity, while Massa isn't really. His potential is what makes his Ferrari signing quite intriguing. His immediate challenge is to get accustomed to the bridgestones, then we'll quickly see that potential come to fruition, I'll predict.

[flashF1]

Kirk, I think Massa is in for the ride of his life, in more ways than one. His statements [Massa that is] that B'Stones were the inferior tire during his testing for both Ferrari and Sauber were very enlightening.

I think when you throw into the mix a V8 and fewer driver aids Massa compared to Michael won't stand a chance. I am not so sure Nick will fair any better, IMO but 2006 will be a very telling year for me. Man versus machine ... to me it's man first, then machine.

[shiny side up!]

If I had a couple of hundred million quid a year going into 2 conglomerations of carbon fiber and titanium, I would probably go with the "easy, safe route", take my consistent points hauls and accept that 2 or 3 times a year there will be the odd weekend where Massa keeps it tidy and beats me...

[Kirk]

You may be right Flash. I agree that next year will be tough and some drivers will adapt easier than others. Massa's dilemna will involve a new car, different tyres as well as the V8, but I think his years at Sauber will assist him. To some extent he has been forced to adapt to the car (and a tyre brand change) while other teams have had the budget to cater more to the driver. We'll soon see if he is up to the challenge as Ferrari have made it quite clear that he has a single year to prove he belongs in that seat.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Kind of an unfair comparison really, Heidfeld has the potential to be a race winner whereas Massa is amazingly lucky to even still be in Formula One.

Massa has talent, no doubt about it, but Sauber was probably the very limit of it. I'll be amazed if he lasts two full seasons as a Ferrari race driver.