The red pill

[Tim Northcutt]

When all is said and done, the IRL could have as many as 21 full-time cars onthe grid, not including the two "wanna-be" drivers, John Herb and Marty Roth.

With Cahill Racing's pending announcement, they will have 18 cars & drivers confirmed.

Probables include Buddy Rice and either Sarah Fisher or Jaime Camara in a second D&R seat, plus PJ Chesson with Fernandez....and from what I'm hearing, at least two of those three are Very Likely...

[Kieran20]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I can't comment on much, as neither holds much of my attention anymore. But I will say that chastising the IRL for running a dated car is a bit silly. How long did Champcar carry on with the same car-engine combo?

not what im saying, champ car have brouhg tout a new car which will do many things for them like attract publicity and new teams, therefore increasing numbers and publicity.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Snips1

D-A-N-I-C-A P-A-T-R-I-C-K

Danica who? Has she raced since the 2005 Indy 500?

[Kieran20]

Originally Posted by luke

Danica who? Has she raced since the 2005 Indy 500?

some one boot her out of racing before i personally have to!

[Snips1]

Originally Posted by luke

Some unfair comments to say the least and no dis respect to anyone especially climb but I don't agree with you're saying mate...

We all thoughT the IRL would struggle to field 13 cars, a bit unfair as by March yet again they would probably find 17 or along those lines. But they are being filled up with un talented drivers. Midiscure to say the least.
And as pointed out, to say everything is all rosey and Champ Car has loads of problems maybe you should look at your own...

The difference Champ Car is attracting big names. Many from Europe. Many GP2 drivers, F3 etc. Even ex F1 team Minardi have made the plunge and Paul said on Autosport it wouldn't be impossible for another f1 team and not as unlikely as it may seem to some.

Champ Car has many new teams, look at what the difference the new car has made, there should be for the first time in a long time, consistently ever 20 cars. The building blocks since 2004 are now starting to show.

Champ Car has only one star team? You'll see many new teams and stars born this year with the more competitive chassis with less adjustments allowed. Some great and good talent from Europe, just look at the names this year in Champ Car from the front to the back of the field. Do the same with the IRL, then you'll see what I'm talking about.

The IRL has four big teams? They are good teams but they are all running old Honda engines as is the whole field. And old Dallaras...Lets not forget they are all ex Champ Car teams (which defines the original point of the IRL IMHO) before they fled for the money etc..And as mentioned they will stay in the IRL.

CC has many new teams??? Hmmm
Star drivers? That's depends on the definition on star drivers, Verstappen might be a big name in Holland and therefore quite important for CC but he's a no namer in the US and therfore not tjat important for the IRL since they are more focusing on the US market where CC tries to concentrate on the international market.

I don't see why the new car is such a good thing, yesy they needed it, but so far they have only sold 35 of them which is a bit concerning I would think.

The IRL top teams are running old cars? What does the car has to do with the quality of the team?

[luke]

Originally Posted by Snips1

CC has many new teams??? Hmmm
Star drivers? That's depends on the definition on star drivers, Verstappen might be a big name in Holland and therefore quite important for CC but he's a no namer in the US and therfore not tjat important for the IRL since they are more focusing on the US market where CC tries to concentrate on the international market.

Carroll, Jani to name but two along with a few other GP2 drivers trying to get a drive etc. Who are from some of the best up and coming drivers from Europe in the large pool next to F1.

I don't see why the new car is such a good thing, yesy they needed it, but so far they have only sold 35 of them which is a bit concerning I would think.

Bit concerning? they have only sold 35 so far because they have only made 35 so far. They can't sell cars they haven't made yet...

The IRL top teams are running old cars? What does the car has to do with the quality of the team?

Running old cars is less attraction. I added that into my sentance I believe. Should have made a new paragraph.

[climb]

luke mate, total respect for yor views, but still IMHO drivers like Jani and Carroll still have to prove "stars"; they, albeit young interesting drivers, still have have to prove more talented, than say, Dixon, Castroneves, Andretti jr etc

And about IRL having some backmarkers, of course it's true, but it's true for every series in the world, starting from F1 and, obviously as well, including CC.

BTW: apart from official quotes, I'm convinced that an European youngster, coming from WSBR/GP2 and going to CC, does it just because he couldn't make it to F1 (even as 3rd driver).
CC is IMHO a second choice to all of them, and (I hope I'm wrong, but) I fear that their F1 chances won't be increased by running in CC.
Seb's case is very meaningful on this purpose.

[JohnSSC]

enemy-ace and jhansen hit the nail squarely on the head!

[climb]

Originally Posted by luke

...
Running old cars is less attraction. ..

So you've never been a CC fan up to know, have you

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Both series have their difficulties. I mostly follow Champ Car, because that's what we get on TV here in Sweden - though we did get IRL earlier. About star drivers; for me Wilson is kind of a star simply because I remember watching him in F1. Bourdais definantly. Tracy too. But IRL seems to have more of them with Hornish, Castroneves, Wheldon, Kanaan, Franchitti and Andretti.
Few cars is rarely good. Both series had problems with this in 2006; but Champ Car have an announced plan that seems to be doing something, while I have yet to hear about IRL doing the same. So for now it seems to me that CC have the upper hand, if there is one. The only thing that disturbs me about most CC/IRL battles are the die-hard fans of one of the series; why just don't enjoy both?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by climb

IRL: Ganassi, Penske, Andretti, and a real competition inside these teams

How competitive was the Andretti team in 06 ?

Originally Posted by climb

Among the major open wheel series, IRL is by lightyears the most competitive

Climb I'd admire your commitment but you've got to be kidding.

[Hazza]

The only difference between a Champcar Fan and an IRL fan is last time I checked, IRL fans don't go into the Champcar forum spewing crap at every possible oppertunity.

You tell us that we're running old cars? I'm sorry, what was the LOLA? You tell us that you have "all the stars" but you'd kill to get Kanaan, Dario, Scott, Marco and Hornish in your series. You come in here EVERY SINGLE YEAR coming up with these claims of 26 car grids when each year you end up mustering 18 at the most. You tell us that your series is more competitive when ONE MAN has won the series 3 times in a row while we have had 3 different winners. We had six different race winners and you had four this year.

We're sick of this allready.

[climb]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

How competitive was the Andretti team in 06 ?

A bit more than PKV I guess; and they sorted the most interesting young talent of the season.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Climb I'd admire your commitment but you've got to be kidding.

If you just could seriously provide some example against what I say....

[Snips1]

Originally Posted by luke

Carroll, Jani to name but two along with a few other GP2 drivers trying to get a drive etc. Who are from some of the best up and coming drivers from Europe in the large pool next to F1.



Bit concerning? they have only sold 35 so far because they have only made 35 so far. They can't sell cars they haven't made yet...




Running old cars is less attraction. I added that into my sentance I believe. Should have made a new paragraph.

I don't hope that you are seriously are comparing two drivers who have won a couple of GP2 races which Indy 500 winners....

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by climb

A bit more than PKV I guess; and they sorted the most interesting young talent of the season.

If you just could seriously provide some example against what I say....

Well, which is it? Andretti is competitive, or Forsythe is not?

I'd say that's an example of where your argument crossed into hyperbole. You can't credit one without doing the same with the other.

IRL is more competitive, but to say light years ahead is IMO a stretch.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Snips1

I don't hope that you are seriously are comparing two drivers who have won a couple of GP2 races which Indy 500 winners....

snippy, you can't compare drivers coming into a series that were already in a another series.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Hazza

The only difference between a Champcar Fan and an IRL fan is last time I checked, IRL fans don't go into the Champcar forum spewing crap at every possible oppertunity.

Couldn't be more wrong IMHO Hazza. No one hardly post in the IRL Indy Car series board anymore which is a shame, from what I see there is no bashing. There maybe construction critizisium and disagreements, but if you want your bashing, look at the Champ Car forum where un named members daily bash Champ Car and never discuss racing.
I hate Tony George, but that doesn't stop from me from enjoying the excitement of oval racing and the Indy 500.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

Both series have their difficulties. I mostly follow Champ Car, because that's what we get on TV here in Sweden - though we did get IRL earlier. About star drivers; for me Wilson is kind of a star simply because I remember watching him in F1. Bourdais definantly. Tracy too. But IRL seems to have more of them with Hornish, Castroneves, Wheldon, Kanaan, Franchitti and Andretti.
Few cars is rarely good. Both series had problems with this in 2006; but Champ Car have an announced plan that seems to be doing something, while I have yet to hear about IRL doing the same. So for now it seems to me that CC have the upper hand, if there is one. The only thing that disturbs me about most CC/IRL battles are the die-hard fans of one of the series; why just don't enjoy both?

Couldn't agree more JM, you put it well.

[Snrub]

We have no action on either OW forum until something remotely inflamatory is posted and more happeneds in two days than in the last month.

Realistically neither OW series is doing much well right now. Both have to spin their success because what else are they going to say?

I *think* the writer of that article was meaning to imply that while both series are struggling at least CC has made attempts to change itself to improve. The definition of insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different results. He has a point there. Some of the other stuff like the car count and age of car thing I think are unfair to the IRL (eg. aren't the cars 3-4 years old?).

[luke]

Originally Posted by Hazza

You tell us that we're running old cars? I'm sorry, what was the LOLA? You tell us that you have "all the stars" but you'd kill to get Kanaan, Dario, Scott, Marco and Hornish in your series. You come in here EVERY SINGLE YEAR coming up with these claims of 26 car grids when each year you end up mustering 18 at the most. You tell us that your series is more competitive when ONE MAN has won the series 3 times in a row while we have had 3 different winners. We had six different race winners and you had four this year.

That's no what the situation is....The reason why I rank Champ Car now ahead of the IRL and as many do is the new car. The building blocks have been a slow process but visible now. The last few years the IRL had the better overall quality of drivers throughout the field, therefore the most competitive overall field, but now in 2007 that's changed. As I've said the field is increasing to what we thought, and it looks as though there will be a similar grid to last year in the IRL but this time more fill in drivers. Back to the old days of less talent. This is the difference. Champ Car is much more competitive this year. I agree that the past few year some people have said there will be a few more entries then what would probably happen. That's optimism. Where as this time because of the new car and many other things, Champ Car will most likely definitely have over 20 cars from what I can see.
Champ car did have a chassis freeze so they used the old cars for a few years, but that's neither here or there as they have actually done something and built a new car, something the IRL must do for 2008 IMHO else it will be a sinking ship from then on. Where as the CCWS has filled up the leaks and the ship is sailing again.
But that's U.S. open wheel racing as it is today. We all want a merge, it has to be done, it probably won't happen, but hey that's life.

[Snips1]

To luke:
To do think IndyCar would be stronger if they had drivers such as Carroll, Premat and Jani driving in their series?

[luke]

Originally Posted by Snips1

To luke:
To do think IndyCar would be stronger if they had drivers such as Carroll, Premat and Jani driving in their series?

Yes definately better then the Chessons, Milka (sorry forgot her second name), PJ Jones, AJ Foyt IVs, and other fill in drivers that do or will finish laps down due to being off the pace. Surely you can see there they are not as good? Carroll, Premat and Jani have what it takes to be in Formula 1. They most probably won't get in so the next best thing is Champ Car.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by Hazza

The only difference between a Champcar Fan and an IRL fan is last time I checked, IRL fans don't go into the Champcar forum spewing crap at every possible oppertunity.

You tell us that we're running old cars? I'm sorry, what was the LOLA? You tell us that you have "all the stars" but you'd kill to get Kanaan, Dario, Scott, Marco and Hornish in your series. You come in here EVERY SINGLE YEAR coming up with these claims of 26 car grids when each year you end up mustering 18 at the most. You tell us that your series is more competitive when ONE MAN has won the series 3 times in a row while we have had 3 different winners. We had six different race winners and you had four this year.

We're sick of this allready.

spot on mate! They bore me to death!

[Snips1]

Originally Posted by luke

Yes definately better then the Chessons, Milka (sorry forgot her second name), PJ Jones, AJ Foyt IVs, and other fill in drivers that do or will finish laps down due to being off the pace. Surely you can see there they are not as good? Carroll, Premat and Jani have what it takes to be in Formula 1. They most probably won't get in so the next best thing is Champ Car.

Sure, but they are not what IndyCar needs. I think it's more important to develop drivers like Bobby Wilson, Brad Jaeger, Festa, Giebler, Hildebrand these drivers have just as much talent and I hope they will be the future of IndyCar racing, they can hekp the sport alot by staying in ow racing....

And at the same time, I think it's sad that everybody is willing to give drivers from GP2 or F3 a change eben though thry don't care aboyt the history of IndyCar racing or the Indy 500, but nobody is wiling to give Barron, Hearn or Gidley a decent change... unter-reay too...

[luke]

Originally Posted by Snips1

Sure, but they are not what IndyCar needs. I think it's more important to develop drivers like Bobby Wilson, Brad Jaeger, Festa, Giebler, Hildebrand these drivers have just as much talent and I hope they will be the future of IndyCar racing, they can hekp the sport alot by staying in ow racing....

And at the same time, I think it's sad that everybody is willing to give drivers from GP2 or F3 a change eben though thry don't care aboyt the history of IndyCar racing or the Indy 500, but nobody is wiling to give Barron, Hearn or Gidley a decent change... unter-reay too...

I agree the IRL has developed Lazier, and especially Hornish who I doubt would have broken through if it wasn't for the IRL. Patrick is another.