[WEC] Peugeot exits Le Mans racing

[Simmi]

It's all just about perception in my eyes. We need to be seen to be making cuts so we'll do this, at the expense of what actually makes sense. As long as it is still costing them a single Euro to go racing people will point to it as unnecessary for a company in crisis.

But when they say they are pulling out to concentrate on launching their road cars. A bit of success on the race track might have helped matters.

But what's done is done.

[chernaudi]

I think that the point that Baretzky was making is that the timing of Peugeot's decision did a lot of financial damage--that it did at least as much harm as good, if not causing more harm than providing any help. The big cost of the factories in racing isn't the racing itself--it's R&D, construction, and building and maintaining the cars.

All we have to do is look at how much Audi spent in '08 on the ALMS vs the R10's development cost. Audi spent about $15 million on the ALMS in '08, and probably spent that much to run the LMS and to run the race itself at LM, Audi probably spent that much for sure--probably at least twice that is a better estimate. But how much money was spent on testing and development? The R10 program probably cost Audi at least $150 million to start up, and that's probably conservative as an estimate.

The question that Baretzky bring up is how much it would've cost Peugeot to race Sebring, Spa, and Le Mans? Aside from the endurance testing, it's probably only a fraction of what the R&D cost and the cost of building 4 cars were, and even with the testing, I'll bet that the race season, in the course of it for those 3 races and a few endurance tests, that Peugeot still would've spent less--a lot less--to race than what was already spent on the R&D and construction of those 4 cars.

But corporate boards and bean counters are what they are, they have a ton of pull on the board and on their company, and if the board wanted to save money, they'd have killed things after LM last year, and finished out the ILMC season for 2011. They spent a crap load of money down the crapper, money that is hard to come by, that could've been saved though a much earlier pull out if that was the plan.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Acid09

But it wasn't compensation, the money was already spent. The bit of money required to actually run the cars probably costs less than a advertising campaign that will probably give worse results.

Sorry, I did not mean financial compensation. It was more a matter of public opinion: showing to the French tax payers that PSA is doing a lot of effort to save costs and they are not sacking employees lightly.

[chernaudi]

Problem is that the money already spent on the aborted sportscar program could've gone to helping out the company, and that money now can't be recouped, at least easily or quickly.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I think that the answer is quite easy: compensation for big job cut.

Any company that posts a Euro 497 million loss in the 6 months prior to the pull out going from a Euro 405 million profit in the previous 6 months needs to look seriously at its costs. I don't see it just as compensation unfortunately.

[Gingers4Justice]

Looking back on this, the pull-out was inevitable, even if the manner of it wasn't.

If Peugeot are making redundancies in a financial crisis, and then the French media covers Le Mans and the redundant workers and their families see the company having fun with their racing cars, it would probably be a bitter pill to swallow.

It's academic making points about how this doesn't save the company any money, that's not what lies behind the move.

[TF110]

I wonder if the partnership with GM will go any further into helping the company get back into racing. Or if the partnership becomes greater (more GM involvement).

[KA]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Looking back on this, the pull-out was inevitable, even if the manner of it wasn't.

If Peugeot are making redundancies in a financial crisis, and then the French media covers Le Mans and the redundant workers and their families see the company having fun with their racing cars, it would probably be a bitter pill to swallow.

It's academic making points about how this doesn't save the company any money, that's not what lies behind the move.

That's the rub isn't it- no matter that most of the money needed to run the programme was already committed, and no matter what the returns in advertising from WEC success might have been for Peugeot, once they're in a situation where they're incurring big losses as a company, and having to make people redundant, the continued existence of the sportscar programme just becomes an easy target for every French journalist and politician with an eye for a cheap opportunity for points-scoring to call for heads to roll at board level.

Even if they'd gone on to win the WEC and Le Mans, I suspect they'd have been crucified by the French press for doing it, at the same time they were laying off a couple of thousand production-line workers, and something tells me the value of reports of Peugeot success on the sports pages would easily be outweighed by the negative coverage on the business pages and in the headlines.

Sure it's a political decision, but Peugeot as a company have to operate in a political world, and if it had been Audi, rather than Peugeot, who found themselves making big losses at the end of last year, I suspect the rug might have been pulled out from under Baretzky in just the same manner...

[Tim the Grey]

Winning the Spa 1000kms will not give banner headlines on the front page.
CRS riot police baton charging striking/sacked workers is... With photos. And your company name front and centre.
Any publicity is good publicity? Don't you believe it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Winning the Spa 1000kms will not give banner headlines on the front page.
CRS riot police baton charging striking/sacked workers is... With photos. And your company name front and centre.
Any publicity is good publicity? Don't you believe it.

Police baton charges make far more interesting headlines for Joe Average driving his Peugeot, than Peugeot winning the Spa 1000kms, or Le Mans for that matter.

It begs the question how interested is Joe Average, driving his Peugeot, in Peugeot winning the Spa 1000kms or Le Mans? I would hazzard a guess and say he's not and therefore is it worth Peugeot spending loads on a racing programme which has no bearing or influence on its customer base?

[arakis]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Police baton charges make far more interesting headlines for Joe Average driving his Peugeot, than Peugeot winning the Spa 1000kms, or Le Mans for that matter.

It begs the question how interested is Joe Average, driving his Peugeot, in Peugeot winning the Spa 1000kms or Le Mans? I would hazzard a guess and say he's not and therefore is it worth Peugeot spending loads on a racing programme which has no bearing or influence on its customer base?

It raises the profile of the brand, selling technology derived from a Le Mans winner does resonate...it means reliability. The question is whether Peugeot was able to market it successfully.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by arakis

It raises the profile of the brand, selling technology derived from a Le Mans winner does resonate...it means reliability. The question is whether Peugeot was able to market it successfully.

Certainly the technology will find itself in their road cars but as for marketing brand awareness, that's what it's supposed to do but in reality does it do that? I personally don't think Joe Average, driving his Peugeot, really cares whether Peugeot win Le Mans or not; Le Mans, WEC etc. is too remote. He's more likely to have heard of Lewis Hamilton and McLaren and is probably more interested in who is going to win the Premiere League, (if he lives in England).

The problem with sports car racing is it doesn't have a high profile, unless you are a motorsports fan and because of that I don't think any amount of marketing brand awareness will help, which makes me think that's precisely why Peugeot quit.

[GT6]

the group B rally programme that was on last night had an interesting portion on the peugeot situation in the 80's they were struggling to sell cars and making hugh losses, Mr Todd and his sensational 205 rally car turned them around enabling a massive increase in sales that ultimately saved the company. Perhaps a little faith in the race team could have done the same but timid executives were never going to be that brave and with a brand that appears to be going downhill fast the next major brand to disappear in Europe could be peugeot

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by GT6

the group B rally programme that was on last night had an interesting portion on the peugeot situation in the 80's they were struggling to sell cars and making hugh losses, Mr Todd and his sensational 205 rally car turned them around enabling a massive increase in sales that ultimately saved the company. Perhaps a little faith in the race team could have done the same but timid executives were never going to be that brave and with a brand that appears to be going downhill fast the next major brand to disappear in Europe could be peugeot

Was a good documentary on the whole. Stunning era. I'm not sure it can be compared to modern-day sportscars as the reach of Group B rallying was much bigger back then. Plus the 205 looked like a road-going 205. Albeit on steroids.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by GT6

the group B rally programme that was on last night had an interesting portion on the peugeot situation in the 80's they were struggling to sell cars and making hugh losses, Mr Todd and his sensational 205 rally car turned them around enabling a massive increase in sales that ultimately saved the company. Perhaps a little faith in the race team could have done the same but timid executives were never going to be that brave and with a brand that appears to be going downhill fast the next major brand to disappear in Europe could be peugeot

Originally Posted by Simmi

Was a good documentary on the whole. Stunning era. I'm not sure it can be compared to modern-day sportscars as the reach of Group B rallying was much bigger back then. Plus the 205 looked like a road-going 205. Albeit on steroids.

True.
But the same can be said about the 206.
It was successful in rally, and sold like hell...

But it can just as well be coincidence, as Citroen has never (in Denmark) gained anything from their WRC dominance!
(I know Denmark is a very small market for manufactures, but as we don't have our own car manufacture, it makes it a good market to see the effect of certain PR stunts)

[knighty]

Pug 908 for sale, the previous owner was a vicars wife and she used for the saturday milk run only, she never went over 350kph, serviced regularly, yours for 2 million euro.

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-10304.html

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by knighty

Pug 908 for sale, the previous owner was a vicars wife and she used for the saturday milk run only, she never went over 350kph, serviced regularly, yours for 2 million euro.

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-10304.html

Is it in running condition? RSC says #02 is the car that Marc Gene somersaulted into the barriers at the Karting esses at the LM2008 test day...

[Creep89]

“Starting and running this vehicle calls for specific equipment, third-party software licences and skills. The seller commits to providing the necessary technical support for a period of three years. This service will be provided at Peugeot Sport’s normal rates for technical support”.

Source

Nice one..

[Paradise City]

We should do a forum whip-around and once we've bought the gallant steed there'll be enough drivers who post to provide a winning team I'm sure.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

We should do a forum whip-around and once we've bought the gallant steed there'll be enough drivers who post to provide a winning team I'm sure.

How many forum members are there?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

How many forum members are there?

36,085

So thats 56€ a member

But with Technical support, i don't think race support, more start up, and show run support.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by CTD

36,085

So thats 56€ a member

But with Technical support, i don't think race support, more start up, and show run support.

And if every 10 Tenths forum member contributed double?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

And if every 10 Tenths forum member contributed double?

But whose house do we keep it at?

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Simmi

But whose house do we keep it at?

We each get to keep it for a couple of days.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

And if every 10 Tenths forum member contributed double?

Huh?.
36,086 x 56 = 2,000,000. .

Originally Posted by porsche91722

We each get to keep it for a couple of days.

I need to knock down a wall in my Studio-apartment, but it will be well worth it