Group A Rover SD1/Vitesse Rally History (sep from main thread)

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Quick question for the 'rallyists' who's the driver/pairing in the other Computervision Vitesse on the '85 events, is it Duez or Stuart as I can't make out the names on the wings?

It's Mike Stuart/Brian Goff. He only drove the Computervision car a couple of times- a second car on the Manx, and then the RAC entry.
The pics look like they're taken at Donington

[KA]

Can't remember whether this has been raised before, but a really anoraky question about the lighting setup on the Computervision cars, prompted by the pics on the Irish forum that David linked to...

Looking at the pics, the Computervision cars had the normal rectangular SD1 headlights replaced by paired round ones (Did production SD1s for the USA have twin round lights?), supplemented by 4 spots in various configurations, depending on the event. Oddly enough, the two cars on the Manx both reverted to the standard SD1 headlights. Any idea why?

Additionally, a small observation based on the pics- Looking at the spotlamp covers on the cars, the team used Cibie lamps- except for Stuart's car on the Manx and RAC which appear to have used Lucas.

Driver preference, or did Stuart have a personal sponsorship deal that caused the change?

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by KA

Heaven only knows what happened to them, but I think I had a bound set of 'Racecards'- think ARG sometimes used to give away spiral-bound full-season sets at events like the Motor Show?

They did indeed giveaway bound full volumes at shows KA, but the only one I have is the same that 'Red' won - 1983. That was the first year that Austin Rover printed them - also the year of their first serious motorsport programme (in my mind). They continued to print it right up until the Motorsport Department closed at Cowley in 1987.

I have quite a few of them, including some duplicates, and am happy to swap them for other issues if anyone is interested?

[Alex E]

been meaning to post this for a while, Alex

[MG Rover Sport]

On another matter involving the rally cars, I wonder if any of you have noticed the clever way that TWR managed to keep the touring car spec twin fillers, without needing to position the rear number plate in a different location?

A metal flap has two fasteners along the top edge, and a hinge along the bottom edge, meaning the mechanics could simply undo the two clips and hinge the metal flap downwards to reveal the twin fillers. Hey presto...

[corliss]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

On another matter involving the rally cars, I wonder if any of you have noticed the clever way that TWR managed to keep the touring car spec twin fillers, without needing to position the rear number plate in a different location?

A metal flap has two fasteners along the top edge, and a hinge along the bottom edge, meaning the mechanics could simply undo the two clips and hinge the metal flap downwards to reveal the twin fillers. Hey presto...

1 Filler, 1 vent, same flap system going right back to Grp1 DPR cars.
Skip

[MG Rover Sport]

Sorry Skip, I didn't realise one was a vent - DOH! I knew it looked different, but just didn't know why...

...or that they dated as far back as you stated.

Still quite a clever idea though!

[MG Rover Sport]

Even though we already know the chassis number sequence for the TWR built touring and rally cars, I have just unearthed the sequence for the separate Austin Rover Motorsport built cars.

Without giving away too much detail - as there are some dodgy / unscrupulous people out there! - I will simply state that they mention the fact that the car was built by Austin Rover Motorsport for rallying, followed by an individual sequential number, and then finishing off with either Group 2 or Group A depending on their original specification as built.

My thoughts are that this was used on the following non-TWR built cars : A377 VUK, A379 VUK, A683 NJO, A478 WOE, A479 WOE and A480 WOE.

Talking of A379 VUK I'm not sure if you know but there were two totally separate cars to have carried this registration number...

a) TWR #006 used A379 VUK momentarily for the 1984 National Breakdown Rally on 17 / 18 February in Tom Walkinshaw / John Davenport's hands.

b) However, the 'real' A379 VUK was initially built for the 1983 Paris-Peking Rally (which was subsequently cancelled!). '379' was then used on the 1983 Austin Rover Rallysprint (along with it's sister car A377 VUK), and then appeared as part of the Austin Rover Middle East Rally Team that entered the 1984 Oman and Dubai Rallies. It was then sold as part of the Ian 'Del' Lines deal in 1985.

The 'real' A379 VUK has been used fairly regularly on single venue rallies and hillclimbs for the last few years. You can clearly see the differently located fuel fillers in the rear quarter windows - specifically for filling the 60 gallon tank that the car was built with for the proposed 1983 Paris-Peking Rally.

A379 VUK can be seen below on the 2002 Regency Stages Rally and clearly shows the fuel filler located in the rear quarter window. On the rear view of the car you can also see the exhaust exiting through the rear valence - I guess this was to improve ground clearance for it's previous outings in Oman and Dubai, but I could be wrong?...





(These photos have been internet sourced, so full credit to the unknown original photographer. If it is a problem, I am happy to remove them upon request!)

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Even though we already know the chassis number sequence for the TWR built touring and rally cars, I have just unearthed the sequence for the separate Austin Rover Motorsport built cars.

Without giving away too much detail - as there are some dodgy / unscrupulous people out there! - I will simply state that they mention the fact that the car was built by Austin Rover Motorsport for rallying, followed by an individual sequential number, and then finishing off with either Group 2 or Group A depending on their original specification as built.

My thoughts are that this was used on the following non-TWR built cars : A377 VUK, A379 VUK, A683 NJO, A478 WOE, A479 WOE and A480 WOE.

Talking of A379 VUK I'm not sure if you know but there were two totally separate cars to have carried this registration number...

a) TWR #006 used A379 VUK momentarily for the 1984 National Breakdown Rally on 17 / 18 February in Tom Walkinshaw / John Davenport's hands.

b) However, the 'real' A379 VUK was initially built for the 1983 Paris-Peking Rally (which was subsequently cancelled!). '379' was then used on the 1983 Austin Rover Rallysprint (along with it's sister car A377 VUK), and then appeared as part of the Austin Rover Middle East Rally Team that entered the 1984 Oman and Dubai Rallies. It was then sold as part of the Ian 'Del' Lines deal in 1985.

The 'real' A379 VUK has been used fairly regularly on single venue rallies and hillclimbs for the last few years. You can clearly see the differently located fuel fillers in the rear quarter windows - specifically for filling the 60 gallon tank that the car was built with for the proposed 1983 Paris-Peking Rally.

A379 VUK can be seen below on the 2002 Regency Stages Rally and clearly shows the fuel filler located in the rear quarter window. On the rear view of the car you can also see the exhaust exiting through the rear valence - I guess this was to improve ground clearance for it's previous outings in Oman and Dubai, but I could be wrong?...

That exhaust routed out through the back panel seems to have been an original feature of the cars- Check out this pic of '379' at the Rallysprint...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2093/...9fe3a206_o.jpg

I've seen a pic somewhere of one of the cars on a display stand at some event showing the same feature.
Like the 60-gallon fuel tanks you mentioned, I guess it's the kind of thing you'd expect on a car built for a 'marathon' event like Paris-Peking, and possibly accounted for the cars being farmed out to the Middle East rather than being absorbed into TWR's programme of UK/European events, or sold on to a privateer- presumably, they're a bit heavier than a 'regular' Group A car.
As you say, the extra ground clearance and long-range tanks would be pretty useful in the desert, but maybe a bit OTT for a UK/ European forest or tarmac event, ...

IIRC, wasn't '379' shunted by Del Lines and rebuilt into a TWR (Bastos) race shell sourced as part of that package deal with the Computervision and Bathurst/Mobil cars?. Interesting that the 'Paris-Peking' features were carried over into the rebuilt car

[duncs]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Even though we already know the chassis number sequence for the TWR built touring and rally cars, I have just unearthed the sequence for the separate Austin Rover Motorsport built cars.

Without giving away too much detail - as there are some dodgy / unscrupulous people out there! - I will simply state that they mention the fact that the car was built by Austin Rover Motorsport for rallying, followed by an individual sequential number, and then finishing off with either Group 2 or Group A depending on their original specification as built.

My thoughts are that this was used on the following non-TWR built cars : A377 VUK, A379 VUK, A683 NJO, A478 WOE, A479 WOE and A480 WOE.

Talking of A379 VUK I'm not sure if you know but there were two totally separate cars to have carried this registration number...

a) TWR #006 used A379 VUK momentarily for the 1984 National Breakdown Rally on 17 / 18 February in Tom Walkinshaw / John Davenport's hands.

b) However, the 'real' A379 VUK was initially built for the 1983 Paris-Peking Rally (which was subsequently cancelled!). '379' was then used on the 1983 Austin Rover Rallysprint (along with it's sister car A377 VUK), and then appeared as part of the Austin Rover Middle East Rally Team that entered the 1984 Oman and Dubai Rallies. It was then sold as part of the Ian 'Del' Lines deal in 1985.

The 'real' A379 VUK has been used fairly regularly on single venue rallies and hillclimbs for the last few years. You can clearly see the differently located fuel fillers in the rear quarter windows - specifically for filling the 60 gallon tank that the car was built with for the proposed 1983 Paris-Peking Rally.

A379 VUK can be seen below on the 2002 Regency Stages Rally and clearly shows the fuel filler located in the rear quarter window. On the rear view of the car you can also see the exhaust exiting through the rear valence - I guess this was to improve ground clearance for it's previous outings in Oman and Dubai, but I could be wrong?...





(These photos have been internet sourced, so full credit to the unknown original photographer. If it is a problem, I am happy to remove them upon request!)

Hi! I own A379 which is the ex Tony Pond Rally raid car which Del Lines, after hitting a tree at Longleat , rebuilt into TWR 015 Bastos shell around 86 having had the shell modified to rally spec by Gartac i still use her for single venue rallies and hillclimbs now.

I also have TWR 001 which was sold to me as 002 but I am sure it is 001 which I am rebuilding at the moment I belive it to be ex Rene Metge, Jean Louis Schlesser car that was in Marlboro colours but it is in Bastos colours at the moment!

If anyone has anymore info on either cars I would love to hear about it!

Thanks

Duncs

[KA]

Originally Posted by duncs

Hi! I own A379 which is the ex Tony Pond Rally raid car which Del Lines, after hitting a tree at Longleat , rebuilt into TWR 015 Bastos shell around 86 having had the shell modified to rally spec by Gartac i still use her for single venue rallies and hillclimbs now.

I also have TWR 001 which was sold to me as 002 but I am sure it is 001 which I am rebuilding at the moment I belive it to be ex Rene Metge, Jean Louis Schlesser car that was in Marlboro colours but it is in Bastos colours at the moment!

If anyone has anymore info on either cars I would love to hear about it!

Thanks

Duncs

That's brilliant- it's always nice to hear from another of the owners of the cars.
Thanks for clearing up the question of which race car shell went to Del Lines to rebuilt '379', and accounting for '001' into the bargain. Love to see some pics of '001' when it's finished!

[Sunbmw]

Whist at the Autosport show the other week, I had a lovely find. Chatting with the Guys on the Compomotive wheels stand, they have re-made some wheels to fit a Renault 5 Maxi, for a company in Luxembourg called Tomsky racing, fortunatley for me, they are a very similar design to the Works Rally car wheels, so I might be investing in a few sets when funds allow............

Check the website and you will see what I mean.

[duncs]

Originally Posted by KA

That's brilliant- it's always nice to hear from another of the owners of the cars.
Thanks for clearing up the question of which race car shell went to Del Lines to rebuilt '379', and accounting for '001' into the bargain. Love to see some pics of '001' when it's finished!

I will do my best to post some pictures when she is up and running if I can work out how!
Duncs

[MG Rover Sport]

Any thoughts about taking A379 VUK to Race Retro at Coventry on 26 / 27 February Duncs?...

http://www.raceretro.com/

I gather Adam might be there with his ex-Russell Gooding A480 WOE?

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by KA

Can't remember whether this has been raised before, but a really anoraky question about the lighting setup on the Computervision cars, prompted by the pics on the Irish forum that David linked to...

Looking at the pics, the Computervision cars had the normal rectangular SD1 headlights replaced by paired round ones (Did production SD1s for the USA have twin round lights?), supplemented by 4 spots in various configurations, depending on the event. Oddly enough, the two cars on the Manx both reverted to the standard SD1 headlights. Any idea why?

Additionally, a small observation based on the pics- Looking at the spotlamp covers on the cars, the team used Cibie lamps- except for Stuart's car on the Manx and RAC which appear to have used Lucas.

Driver preference, or did Stuart have a personal sponsorship deal that caused the change?

Good evening KA,

In response to your earlier question, I think I may have just confimed my beliefs regarding your second question! I didn't say anything previously, as I wasn't 100% sure.

For your first question, you are indeed quite correct, the Rover SD1 was indeed sold in the States with the twin circular headlamp setup that the rallycars adopted - well, for most of the time anyway. I'm not sure why the rectangular lamps weren't used in the States - possibly a legal matter related to their strict laws involving motor vehicles? - but I think for rallying there was more scope to improve the quality of the round lamps than there was the standard lamps.

For your second question - and this is the part that I wasn't 100% sure about! - I have just found a 1985 Manx Rally preview clipping from the 11 September 1985 issue of Motoring News, in which it states...

"TWR will run conventional Rover headlights this time to increase the maximum speed and the team's attention to detail combined with Pond's unrivalled Manx expertise should be enough to bring the Championship to Kidlington."

...so there you have it, the standard lights were refitted for the Manx to increase the cars maximum speed! Although I'm sure that it cannot have made a masive difference, but I suppose it all help when added together!

[MG Rover Sport]

Good evening gents!

I have just returned from my great quest to solve one of the biggest rallying related mysteries of this thread! Oh yes indeedy everyone, I have truely returned with what can be quite categorically classed as the Group A Rover Vitesse Rallying Holy Grail!

The following clipping is taken from the 22 September 1983 issue of Autosport magazine, and in particular their post-1983 Rothmans Manx International Rally report!

Before you read it, just remind yourself of the facts that...

(A) The very first rally car TWR 006 : FJO 450Y debuted on the 1983 Criterium Lucien Bianchi in Belguim on 2-4 September driven by Tom Walkinshaw (himself) / John Davenport - their rally ended whilst lying 8th Overall when they crashed badly damaging the nearside rear quarter!

(B) The second outing of the same very first rally car TWR 006 : FJO 450Y came a mere TWO WEEKS LATER on the 1983 Rothmans Manx International Rally on 15-17 September driven by Tony Pond / Rob Arthur, and it has never really been known whether the car was 'simply' repaired with new panelwork, including floor, sill, door, etc or whether it was actually reshelled? Either way, for the team to honour it's entry and make an appearance on the Isle of Man in such a short time is testament to the skilll and dedication of the TWR team!

Now read the following article, paying particular attention to the second sentence! Bare in mind that this was written a couple of days after the rally took place, and I have every faith in the fact that the Autosport team covering the event would have actually taken the time to ask TWR personnel about the new car, leading to the following summary being written - I rest my case!...

[andy97]

There's an article about Marc Duez in at the Donington Park Rallysprint in 1984 inside the back page of this weeks Autosport, under the title of "Race of my Life". This is a regular feature with various well known drivers recounting the tale of their favourite performance. The photo is of him competing on the rally stage in an SD1

[KA]

Originally Posted by andy97

There's an article about Marc Duez in at the Donington Park Rallysprint in 1984 inside the back page of this weeks Autosport, under the title of "Race of my Life". This is a regular feature with various well known drivers recounting the tale of their favourite performance. The photo is of him competing on the rally stage in an SD1

Yes, just been reading that. I hadn't realised that Duez was a last-minute stand-in for Tony Pond, and had to smile at his comment about the win:
'From a PR point of view it was not the best result for the Rallysprint organisers. Nobody knew who I was!'

Incidentally, and a bit off-topic, next week's 'Race of My Life' article is Chris Hodgetts- could well be another Group A-related one?

[MG Rover Sport]

RIP Tony Pond - nine years ago today!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

RIP Tony Pond - nine years ago today!

Great shout David, I hadn't realised!!

Thanks also for your recent links to further images which of course continue to prompt discussion.

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

RIP Tony Pond - nine years ago today!

Thanks David- I hadn't realised that

I'm sure we've probably seen this in the thread before, but if not, this seems an appropriate place for it- 1984 Manx Rally, with some in-car action from TP in the Daily Mirror Rover

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pCbU...eature=related

[andy97]

There's a chap who races a Rover 800 "fastback" in the BARC-SEC race series who claims that it is the very same 800 that TP used to break a record around the TT course on IoM (100 mph average?). I have no reason to doubt the guy at all. TP, a legend.

[MG Rover Sport]

No problems about the 'heads-up' last week chaps - apologies for not making it sooner in the day so we could have had a little more time to post a suitable tribute! Ho hum...

Cheers for the link to the 1984 Manx video KA. As you stated it is indeed a well viewed video, but all the same, it goes someway to put TP's skills and tarmac prowess into perspective - never mind his total trust of Rob's notes!

On a separate matter...

...I just thought you might be interested to see what's hanging on the wall of my study - a 1985 Austin Rover 'Rover Rallying' dealer showroom poster featuring the Group A Rover Vitesse rally cars : Publication No 3716. Enjoy...

[Sunbmw]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

No problems about the 'heads-up' last week chaps - apologies for not making it sooner in the day so we could have had a little more time to post a suitable tribute! Ho hum...

Cheers for the link to the 1984 Manx video KA. As you stated it is indeed a well viewed video, but all the same, it goes someway to put TP's skills and tarmac prowess into perspective - never mind his total trust of Rob's notes!

On a separate matter...

...I just thought you might be interested to see what's hanging on the wall of my study - a 1985 Austin Rover 'Rover Rallying' dealer showroom poster featuring the Group A Rover Vitesse rally cars : Publication No 3716. Enjoy...

That is an awesome poster David, any chance of getting it copied somehow? I would definitely be first in the queue for one with a fist full of dollar!

[duncs]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Any thoughts about taking A379 VUK to Race Retro at Coventry on 26 / 27 February Duncs?...

http://www.raceretro.com/

I gather Adam might be there with his ex-Russell Gooding A480 WOE?

Sorry guys been without computer for a couple of weeks but sadly will not be there with A379 however 001 is running and should be finished in a couple of weeks ! I am sure not exactly as it was but has 4.5 litre 300 BHP Rovertec engine standard bos plus LSD still in race trim except twin headlamps althouth I might change them to the standard lamps after!
Good to hear we are all still talking about them, When finished I will put some pics up of 001! cheers all!

Duncs