[LM24 Race] Allan McNish's Crash

[vincegail]

Haven't read all the posts in the race thread yet, so sorry if this is mentioned before.

After seeing McNish crash out in 2004 in the purple/grey R8, last year with his suicidal move and now this year, I think if I were Kristensen and Capello, I'd ask Dr. Ulrich to replace Allan. He is too dangerous and seems to forget that to finish first, first you have to finish.

Or is this my mistake and was there something else to blame that caused the crash instead of Allan being Allan?
(but it still happened to him though, and not to economical driving northern european T.K. or to slightly less economical driving southern european D.C.)

[The Badger]

The crash in 2004 , along with Lehto was oil on the track ..... not Nishys fault . The 2 of them went off at the same time , same place .

Last year , well , maybe a number of factors in my opinion . Bad vision outta the cockpit leading him not to see the Ferrari , I feel the bigger wheel issue needs to be addressed .

This is what happens when you are pushed to the limit all the time , its not a 24 hour endurance race any more , its a 24 hour sprint .

I feel Nishy is one of the best ..... sometimes he has accidents , but they all do .

[CTD]

Originally Posted by The Badger

The crash in 2004 , along with Lehto was oil on the track ..... not Nishys fault . The 2 of them went off at the same time , same place .

Last year , well , maybe a number of factors in my opinion . Bad vision outta the cockpit leading him not to see the Ferrari , I feel the bigger wheel issue needs to be addressed .

This is what happens when you are pushed to the limit all the time , its not a 24 hour endurance race any more , its a 24 hour sprint .

I feel Nishy is one of the best ..... sometimes he has accidents , but they all do .

I might be biased with Being there and cheering for Tom K especially after his Night/Morning stint. But this crash from McNish, was a crash to many. I don't care that he's fast, if he ends by looseing more by crashing.
If Dindo really retires after this year, i hope we will see a shuffle putting Tom K and McNish in to different cars.

One thing is sure. This years race clearly shows that Tom K is by far The better Le Mans driver over Allan McNish.

Allan is a great guy and i always hope The best for him, but now i just hope for Tom K to get a new co-driver. (instead of Allan)

At last. Seeing Allan at the podium, i have to point out that this is NOT an attack on Allans person. There is no doubt that Allan blame himself, and is absolutely destroyed by this.

[eps]

It does seem that some drivers get caught out whereas others don't. Some just have that rub of the green, or bad luck against them.

The nos. and results speak for themselves. It will be interesting to see what Audi do with all of it's "older" drivers.. They're (probably) "only" going to have 3 cars next year, so at least 3 of the drivers will have to make way.

Personally I'd rather see that Audi and other manufacturers only had 2 cars per team and not the 2+1 we've seen recently either! If they had, then Rebellion may well have been on the podium.

I'm not against them having a NA or Team Goh entry, but not a :

2x Team Joest
1x Joest Team

or whatever the "difference" was..!!

[Aysedasi]

Difficult call. I haven't really seen Nishy's accident this year yet. Last year was wholly his fault IMO for pushing too hard when he didn't need to. Wasn't there an issue at Silverstone last year as well? He's been a great driver - and almost certainly still is, but there just seems to be an increasing anxiety there to lead and to win which is breeding impatience which we see on the track at times..... I think there will probably be reshuffles at Audi driver-wise anyway.....

[stylish]

I was stood at the Porsche Curves, (following a full english breakfast) and watched him close on the Ferrari, he seemed to hesitate and for dome reason i kept looking left, heard the bang and saw the dirt flying through the air, to me he seemed to be very unsure of which way the car in front was going to go.

[Dead-Eye]

He said he expected to go around the outside of the Ferrari, but it didn't move to the inside as you normally would on the racing line. Seems like it was a misunderstanding and the Ferrari driver expected McNish to pass on the inside.

[gwyllion]

Capello explains that McNish was completely down because of the crash.

When I saw the car in the wall, for a little while I really felt bad because I was really quite confident. We had a good chance to win the race.

For sure we talked [afterwards]. I've known Allan for many, many years and I've raced with him together in many races and I've never seen him so down.

I told him: 'Don't worry, what happened to you could have happened to me, to Tom [Kristensen], to anyone. You were fighting for the team victory, we win together and we lose together'.

But then I told him 'You will win the WEC championship and everything will be forgotten!'

source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100483

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by CTD

I might be biased with Being there and cheering for Tom K especially after his Night/Morning stint. But this crash from McNish, was a crash to many. I don't care that he's fast, if he ends by looseing more by crashing.
If Dindo really retires after this year, i hope we will see a shuffle putting Tom K and McNish in to different cars.

One thing is sure. This years race clearly shows that Tom K is by far The better Le Mans driver over Allan McNish.

Allan is a great guy and i always hope The best for him, but now i just hope for Tom K to get a new co-driver. (instead of Allan)

At last. Seeing Allan at the podium, i have to point out that this is NOT an attack on Allans person. There is no doubt that Allan blame himself, and is absolutely destroyed by this.

I think that the older guys are feeling the pressure from the younger guys like Andre, Ben and Loic. Even Tom had some interesting moments this weekend--during qualifying he waited until the last moment to pull out from behind a Porsche GT car, and during the race, he nudged a GT car into a spin or nearly into a spin at Mulsanne, and TK also nearly pushed the Krhon Ferrari off at Arnage, and if he didn't turn right when he did, it would've pushed the Ferrari off the road.

The old guys don't want to be shown up by the youngsters, clearly. But the deals with Allan and Tom and their issues/near issues shows how hard they're pushing. Why were they pushing? They were racing, and they were racing against guys like Andre and Ben, who have been consistently, insanely fast in an R18. If you put Duval with them, you'd without question would have the fastest Audi, period, and you'd probably have the new Audi Dream Team. I think that guys like Allan and Tom are a bit frustrated because they haven't won much in recent years and they want to prove that they can run with the whipper-snappers.

Of course, you can maybe even put some of this at the foot of Dr. Ullrich in that he doesn't like team orders, and that when he uses them at LM, it's usually very late in the event. Ullrich let the #1 and #2 Audis race, and I think that in the heat of the moment, drivers in both cars made some mistakes--we already talked about Allan and Tom's issues/near issues, but Marcel spun the car for whatever reason in the Porsche Curves while leading (tire pickup issue, hit a bump the wrong way, whatever), and took to the gravel when he out-braked himself and gave Kristensen the lead back, but we don't hear about Fassler's head being on the Audi chopping block. Even Ben had a little spin at pit-in, but we don't hear of his head on the chopping block either.

Maybe if Allan and Tom drove a little more like Dindo did--which was fast but careful--they might have won more races the past couple of years. I still think that Allan and TK are plenty fast, but they have to maybe manage risks better, and I actually find it ironic that one here has posted that if Allan was a bit more aggressive with the Ferrari this year, instead of hesitated like he reportedly did, the outcome may've been different. It seemed, like last year and with TK and Andy Priaux in '10, to have been a misunderstanding between what two drivers though that the other would do. That's racing and bleep happens.

I think that Allan and TK have jobs at Audi for life because of their past performance and loyalty to Audi, but they know that they're starring down the barrel of time to win LM again and win more races, and time's not on their side like it is with Andre, Ben and Loic.

And it's like with Gwyllion's post where Dindo talked about what happened--they were racing, and what happened could've just as easily happened to Dindo or Tom, or even to Ben, Marcel, or Andre. That happens in racing. You race for long enough, you'll make mistakes and have misunderstandings with fellow competitors. That's the unfortunate nature of the best, especially with the rules for LMP cars.

[isynge]

For me Allan McNish has been the finest sportscar driver of his generation precisely because he's had the ability to push harder than anyone else when it mattered.

I remember chatting to an ex-McLaren mechanic at Le Mans in 2008, and commenting that I was rooting for Audi, because ultimately it would be unfair in McNish only had one LM victory to his name, and the same year's PLM performance was one of those edge of seat drives that ends up welded in memory.

Fast forward and I've long said that if last year Le Mans was won by 13 seconds, over the 24 hours you have to find those seconds somewhere, and sometimes they can be found in the first hour. In that light, I felt McNish's manoeuvre was ambitious when he started it, and obviously it was, but I'm not going to criticise him for it.

That said, the baton will always pass, and (IIRC) Jim Roller from RLM said that the current #1 Audi squad picking up that number one squad baton was one of his Le Mans take-aways. That may well have happened, but for me I'd rather see an Allan McNish still with that rage to win that means he'll push in exactly the same way that led to the error late on this year than someone who sits back and turns his R18 into a carbon fibre bath chair.

[Holt]

I think the criticism of McNish is too harsh.

Tom Kristensen crashed into a GT car in 2009 as well. Also Kristensen hit 5 or 6 GT cars in the mourning when pushing hard, knocking several off track. He was fortunate he did not draw a black flag or cause worse damage to his car or the GT cars. It just so happens McNish went over the edge that .01% and lost it.

[Aysedasi]

I'm not saying that McNish has deteriorated more than anyone else. We saw mistakes aplenty from top class drivers. And although I agree with Ian that I don't want to see a neutered McNish (or anyone else for that matter), every now and again - particularly after last year's monumental crash - you do have to bite your tongue instead of taking the big risk.

[knowyourenemy]

he was pushing hard for a win, had a split second to make a decision and ultimately made the wrong one (by trying to pass there and then). The eurosport commentators said that if he'd waited to pass after that point he would have lost possibly 0.5 sec and at that point still had enough time in hand to make the difference with regards to the last fuel stop to win the race.

Unfortunate it happened to him, could easily have been one of his team mates, or even one of the guys in the #1, if it has this thread probably would have been made.

[nobster]

It's Allan McCrash from now on! just too many incidents the last few years...

[valedave]

My memory of the early morning is a little hazy, but as far I as I can remember he had been catching Treyuler (or it could have been Fässler in the car at that point), but then Treyuler started building a gap, meaning McNish had to push.

I don't think the #2 car would have won, even without McNish's contretemps with the Ferrari. Treyuler and Lotterer were just too quick. I had the feeling that they both had more in the tank if they had needed to push, whereas McNish would have had to have been on the ragged edge just to keep up.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by knowyourenemy

he was pushing hard for a win, had a split second to make a decision and ultimately made the wrong one (by trying to pass there and then). The eurosport commentators said that if he'd waited to pass after that point he would have lost possibly 0.5 sec and at that point still had enough time in hand to make the difference with regards to the last fuel stop to win the race.

That's always easy to say afterwards, but it's not the one situation that would cost you half a second, you probably have several of those every lap. And if you're cautious and give up that half second every time, you can't win.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

That's always easy to say afterwards, but it's not the one situation that would cost you half a second, you probably have several of those every lap. And if you're cautious and give up that half second every time, you can't win.

Exactly.

As I seem to keep saying to people, if you think about 2011 the race was won by 13 seconds, and every one of those seconds has to be found somewhere.

If, as a racing driver, you consistently play it conservatively and only overtake where there's no shadow of a doubt it's going to be a lot harder to create that edge.

To my eye this was at the root of McNish's accidents in both years, and also at the heart of what makes him an exciting driver to watch.

[Aysedasi]

Yeah, but how many times is a team manager going to put up with it Ian? Being a great racer isn't going to be enough if you regularly stick the car in the barriers going for those seconds or half seconds. I feel it's lucky for Allan that 2nd place was maintained. If the car had gone out or the work had taken long enough to let the Rebellion in to 3rd, would we be wondering even more now about his future at Audi....?

[Tim the Grey]

I was just scanning the podium shots I have, and AM looks to be almost in tears...
Dindo does seem to be looking his way in a couple of shots, and he looks sympathetic. So I doubt there's any inter team angst in that crew.
Let's face it. Alan has been Audi's Point Man, when they need to shake up the opposition in the early laps, for many years. I guess they like the way he is aggressive?

[Brake dust]

Allan McNish (Audi R18 e-tron quattro #2): "I'm devastated. I'm sorry for our team: Dindo, Tom, the engineers and the mechanics. They did a perfect job throughout the race. Despite a few problems we were in contention for victory up to my accident. I caught a slower GT vehicle in the Porsche corners and expected the driver to stay on the right-hand side. But he didn't. I haven't got a clue why. I spun and crashed into the guard rail with the right front. That damaged the front bodywork and the suspension - the necessary repair cost us two laps. That was a very, very big disappointment."


Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...#ixzz1yHXwOeEc

Comments from AM in Autoweek.

[GT6]

I think that perhaps Alan should listen to Mr Piro, in the fan lounge on wednesday he talked to us about the very subject of overtaking slower cars approaching corners and perhaps if Alan could learn a little from him then he might not be involved in quite so many incidents

[the.cosmic.pope]

Whilst it is true that Allan is getting involved in quite a few accidents, shouldn't we also be discussing the GT cars? And don''t give me the "It's the car behinds responsibility to overtake" standard line that gets rolled out - using that line means it was Davidsons and Rockenfellers faults for their accidents, and we all know that isnt the case.

The reports say the Ferrari stayed right, and Allan hesitated slightly, and then when he went left the Ferrari went left (that bit we can see, but we only have eye-witness reports for the start). So shouldn't the Ferrari driver be questioned?

The driving standards from the GT cars is quite horrific at the moment. Tracy Krohn alone caused several contacts with the LMPs at Silverstone because he was driving around in the middle of the track, not even taking racing lines. At LM the damaged Labre Corvette spent 12 hours at half speed. 12 hours it was around 20 seconds a lap slower than every other car. Is that really acceptable? One of the Ferraris never once took the final chicane correctly in the last 3 hours of the race.



All of the prototypes avoided those humps by taking the (drivers) left, the GT cars straddled them, and this happy chappy straight lined the chicane and was on the throttle before he even got to the kerb, to maximise the straight line speed, by taking the (drivers) right hand route around the lumps.

You may ask what this has to do with McNish accident, but really isn't this about unpredictable GT cars as well as how the LMP drivers are coping with them? When you have some drivers running around completely out of their depth it's only a matter of time until it happens. We've had 4 high profile LMP accidents in the last 2 Le Mans from GT car accidents, and whilst 2 of those were McNish, they could have happened to anyone. And it isn't like the rest of them have been faultless - Tom stuck it in the barrier during qualifying last year too. And In 2008 when they got the win, Tom turned over the nose of a GT car in Dunlop. And Dindo flew through the air at Monza the same year after hitting a GT car. Rocky has had 2 large accidents at Le Mans too - should he be replaced? Of course not, these things happen.

As reliability increases, the need to turn the race into a 24 hour sprint becomes more and more important, so drivers take more risks. Allan may take more risks than the others, but isn't it also the reason that car came from behind the other Audis after the suspension issues to leading the race?

I agree with the sentiment that he has been involved in too many accidents. But I also think the issues with the GT cars need attention. There are too many drivers out of their depth in what is a very dangerous environment, and by the sound of it again a major factor of the McNish accident was a GT car wandering about the track. The LMP drivers are taking more risks, the GT drivers are becoming more unpredictable, it's a bad combination and needs to be addressed as a whole, rather than looking at individual accidents.

[Dunlop Corner]

Why has the onboard of the crash not surfaced? Audi was streaming the onboards of all cars on their website, so surely the McNish crash was there.

It would be very interested to see the lead up to the crash. What we saw was Allan trying to overtake on the inside into the first lefthander, getting on the grass and spinning.
But why was he attemting a pass there? The two lefthanders in the middle of the Porsche Curves are possibly the worst place to catch a GT car. The corners are fast and narrow so only one car can go through there at speed. In the first righthander and the long righthander before Karting, the prototypes can go on the outside of the slower cars. But not in the middle of the section. If you do not get the pass done after the fast righthander at the beginning of the section, you pretty much have to stay behind the slower car until the long righthander. Trying to force a pass in the middle can get ugly, as the Davidson vs Corvette incident showed.

It seems like McNish tried to make the pass going into the first lefthander. Somehow there was a misunderstanding, and the pass did not get off. Instead McNish tried to run on the inside through the corner, and got squeezed a little. To me it looks like McNish had enough room, and that if he hadn't gotten onto the grass he could have made the pass between the two corners. But overtaking on the inside at that corner is hazardous. If McNish tried to divebomb the Ferrari at that corner, it would have been a terrible decision. It sounds like there was some kind of misunderstanding going into the corner, but I would love to see the onboard to find out what exactly happened.

[Aysedasi]

I can't find an onboard. Although this slow-mo seems to illustrate how he was taken by surprise.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naP1hIVwVn0

[vincegail]

The fact that McNish apologized for the crash is enough evidence: he's the guilty one. He thus was the reason for not winning this year. He has had many of these crashes over the years and a few seconds gained in some all balls out manoeuvre in the beginning of the race doesn't weigh up to crashing out while in the lead near the end.

He should be sacked.