Modus - Page 2

Kevin Miller · 12 May 2003, 04:55 (Ref:1556194)

Three Modus # 022 from Bryan' collection. Bryan may like to elaborate. #1 - John Nicholson.

Kevin Miller · 12 May 2003, 04:56 (Ref:1556195)

#2 NZ Modus #022 Picture - Robbie Francovic.

Kevin Miller · 12 May 2003, 04:58 (Ref:1556196)

Third picture - Robbie Francovic -revamped into Typhoon car.

Chris Townsend · 14 May 2003, 18:01 (Ref:1556197)

The early Moduses [Modi?]

In the records that Bryan Miller has provided there is a gap in the production records for early cars

We have 001-F3, the car tested in January '74 and run by the works in F3 in UK driven by Arnott and Brise and
006-F3, a 1975 car sold to Mike Rand for Formula C.

Marcus Pye suggests that all these missing chassis are '75 production, but here are my suggestions.

[M1-002-F3] At Monaco F3 race, 1974 Modus turn up with two cars for Rudi Gygax and Tony Brise. Brise's car is described as new and unsorted. Gygax probably has 001-F3

After Monaco Modus start to race Brise's Monaco car in F.Atlantic - that's how contemporary reports describe it.

Tom Walkinshaw has two cars in 1974. There is a F.Atlantic, M3, destroyed in a very big accident at the British GP meeting when [allegedly] the steering wheel spokes broke.
Later in the '74 season he tests and debuts an M5 for F5000 with a GAA engine in the back, but this is not the same car as he races in F5000 in 1975 which is in the factory records as 021-F5 built in Jan/Feb '75.

So M3-003-FA
M5-004-F5

Clearly this leaves one other car of 1974 production which I can't readily track down. I think it might have been an F3 belonging to Jean-Louis Schlesser but does anyone have race results for '74 F3 which suggest that there were a couple of cars in circulation after mid-summer.

Bryan Miller · 17 May 2003, 05:34 (Ref:1556198)

Chris, troublesome Chevrons and pesky Modus .
Surely if ACBC decreed the plural of Lotus was Lotus , then the same will apply re. Modus.

I have gone through all 1974 A/S .of which I have most copies. The following is presuming you have the article on Modus, A.S. nov. 14.

If you read and take at verbatim , then I end up with about 17 cars for 1974 .
No ch.no. allocated yet , way too early to do that.
Car 1 Works /Arnott.
Car 2 Super Vee Scharman/ Austria
Car 3 Built but not sold.Seemed to indicate F.SV.
Car 4 Atlantic for Brise.
Car 5 Atlantic for Walkinshaw.
Car 6 F5000 for Walkinshaw.
Car 7 Sports car in photo .
Car 8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17. allto Georg Obermoser , plus F2 car said to be ready for eng. in middle of year.
Car for sale by Ivor Goodwin , who ran the car at Silverstone in August 74 , sale adv. states car updated at factory to same spec. as Brise. However in 27/3/75 p7 Dick Parson's car is said to be in fact the chassis used by Brise at Monaco in 1974.
I have never been comfortable with some things in the ch.list.
I don't think M1-006-F3 is 75 , rather just about has to be 1974 , maybe Goodwin's and end 75/76 to U.S.A. for 77 season.
I think M1-009-FA. is probably Brise's, with maybe Walkinshaw as #4 or #5, as if you see one race report where both Brise and Tom finally make it to Silverstone in May , Brise's car literally just been finished that day.
Brise's was F3 based even running Mk.9 Hewland and F3 wheels .

That is my first go , you may have more info. available to you.
Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 17 May 2003, 13:08 (Ref:1556199)

Chris, I missed typing this in, 27/2/75 Peter Clark has purchased the ex Brise/ Ivor Goodwin M3 and will run 75 as a F3.
That could be a bit of new chassis in one car and old chassis built up with new running gear ala March.
Maybe it is the old FA car turning into a newish F3.
Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 17 May 2003, 23:48 (Ref:1556461)

Chris, tryed faxing you and Allen , Allen may have rec'd. 1 or 2 pages at best.Will post some F5000 stuff to Allen on Mon. so will send your's as well and he can get it to you.
I will include F3 only because it may help sort out Modus mysteries as at the British G.P. 75 we have 2 Atl./Brise and Gygax,and 6xF3 all at same meeting.
Bryan.

Smellybeard · 29 May 2003, 14:14 (Ref:1556467)

Modus M3-027 is looking a bit rough but still has life in it. Hopefully it will race this year.

Dave.

Chris Townsend · 1 Jun 2003, 18:47 (Ref:1556469)

Smellybeard

You also seem to have the old Richard Scott Modus - a car with a good bit of history, and last heard of wrapped round an Irish mountain. Can you tell us more of how and when it came to you?

Perhaps on the Modus thread though [Title: Racing a la mode]

Chris

Bryan Miller · 2 Jun 2003, 10:39 (Ref:1556470)

Smellybeard, when I sold my Modus to my brother he also was given 3 photo's of the 2 Dicksons of Perth M3 cars, certainly 1 photo must be before they raced and includes the team transporter , all complete with British Caledonian Airways livery and looking absolutely stunning in black and yellow two tone .
Kevin , if you see this can you pull photo's and place here.

Bryan.

Chris Townsend · 2 Jun 2003, 12:35 (Ref:1556471)

Bryan

That 'black' is a royal blue. They did look good, and Dickson's ran a very professional outfit, all the way up to the Lotus 78 that Norman ran with Colin Bennett racing in the AFX series.

Chris

Kevin Miller · 3 Jun 2003, 01:01 (Ref:1556472)

I will find the photo mentioned and post it on Thursday. Cheers, Kevin.

Kevin Miller · 5 Jun 2003, 06:34 (Ref:1556200)

Photo 1 of Norman Dickson and Richard Scott cars and transporter circa 1976.

Kevin Miller · 5 Jun 2003, 06:36 (Ref:1556201)

Photos 2 & 3 of Dickson car.

Kevin Miller · 5 Jun 2003, 06:44 (Ref:1556202)

Try again.

Smellybeard · 5 Jun 2003, 20:04 (Ref:1556203)

Great!

I've just had a look at the bodywork of 027. The blue is much lighter than it appears here. Traces of yellow can still be found. I found the lion once during a fiberglass job.
I'll hunt out some pictures of it taken more recently. We ran it in an overall white with green trim and BARDAHL titles (it was sometimes called the BARSTOOL Modus).

Dave.

Bryan Miller · 5 Jun 2003, 23:29 (Ref:1556204)

Smellybeard,Kevin. Thanks , if you wish to return car to same as it used to be , I think Kevin could have them copied at a Kodak shop .
Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 21 Jun 2003, 09:42 (Ref:1556205)

Chris.
For a long time I have wondered where Tony Brise's Atlantic Modus from the British G.P. on went.
After use by Brise it was then used by brother Tim, then once?? by Danny Sullivan, all the above via A./S. reports.
But I could never find anything more untill today.
Ref.Autosport Nov. 20 1975. David Purley has hired Tony Brise's championship winning works F/Atlantic Modus just for the occasion, but was out of luck at the Macau G.P.

However, it appears that the hire may have turned into a sale as the report of the 1976 Macau race lists the car as the same car as used in 1975.
Entrant was Team Harper both times.
REF. is in pit and paddock under '' Macdonald at Macau.''
What I can't do is figure a ch.no. for it, I can't see how there is any way it could be -022 as Nicholson is about to send that to N.Z. and Nicholson did make any reference to Harper or Purley when I spoke to him.
Any trail on an ex. Harper / Purley Atlantic Modus out there.??
Bryan.

IANHEB · 16 Sep 2003, 09:00 (Ref:1556208)

Let's see if I can engage 2nd gear on this Modus thread ( dog rings permitting !! ).
Mike Domingo went to the UK in October 75 shopping for an Atlantic, and on the advice of Dave Charlton went to see J.M. at Modus.The Domingos never got the kind of sponsership money that was available to others, so they generally bought second hand cars. Mike recalls that Jo was very accommodating and put together a package that was within the budget and included an engine from John Nic. Mike did some of the assembly work himself before shipping the car to S.Africa.
They used the car throughout 76 and sold it in early 77. It was badly damaged in its 3rd race with the new owner who had not yet paid in full, so they took it back, fixed the tub and it stood for 15 years. The current owner finished the assembly but it remains unraced since 77.
I have looked at Mikes handwritten notes of the trip, and although he refers to car as "ex Brise" and has details of "Brise set up " (being suspension settings) he has no invoice or chassis number, and does not recall a plate being on the car. Bearing in mind your records stating new tub and Gygax running gear, I cannot figure the link to Brise except a bit of salesmanship on the part of Jo M.
Maybe the running gear was off one of the 74 cars which was ex Brise/Gygax, so when the sale of the car to Mike was recorded the only Brise reference was 022 so it was noted against that. Certainly the FT200 with the car was delivered to Modus before the first Atlantic was completed, so maybe the link is to one of the early cars.

Bryan Miller · 16 Sep 2003, 10:45 (Ref:1556209)

Ian.

It is good to have a co-conspiriter .
This is all from memory , but pretty accurate.
I can refer if needed.
If you have a look at page 1 or 2 of the Chevron B29 thread , if you have'nt seen that , you may care to look at my notes re. my car. I will still call it mine , even though my brother Kevin now owns it.

Brise had an Atlantic car in 1974 , which had non aero side pods etc.which could be M1-009-FA, even though the records state 1975 build.

Please note the records I have are reviewed versions done by Marcus Pye off the factory version , so we may/maynot have a perfect base to go from.
Also the note on the records says only started from ch.no. M1-007-F3.
Even though we have chassis plated M1-006-F3 now oned by Ron Mallard in Reno, Nevada, U.S.A.
Every thing I read about Brise's early 1975 Atlantic car suggests that it really was a test /development car, changing from 1 meeting to the next , and also having a pretty good accident.
All this continues up to the report for Monaco F3 race where Brise is reported in his converted Atlantic car in 1975.

At this meeting also competing were Ruedi Gygax and Danny Sullivan in their F3 cars , Sullivan's being described as '' works '' .
Sullivan stuck his into a tree and Ruedi Gygax had non qualified in his , so they robbed Gygax's car to get Sullivan mobile again.
Brise ran over the back of ' can't remember ' and d.n.fed

So the guys presumably took all this junk back to U.K. and had to get ready for the British G.P support Atlantic race the next weekend .
At that meeting both Brise and Gygax are in the Atlantic race , well sort of , as Brise did not start as he had an accident in the Hill F1 which he was also driving.
But the point is 2 Atl. cars existed at that meeting .
The report states Gygax in Brises Monaco F3 car , which has already been reported as his [ Brise's ] converted Atlantic.
Brise must have rec'd anew car for this important race and Gygax rec'd his hand me down.
After this meeting Brise/Gygax car goes to John Nicolson.

Brise's new car gets used at least once by his brother Tim in an Atlantic race which also includes Nicholson.

This leaves us with Gygax/Sullivan F3 composition 1 week prior to G.P , and the 2 Atlantic cars merrily going about their racing.

As you advise Mike Domingo in Oct. 75 on buying trip , and a deal was done , and the records 'state ' 022 as 1976???? for Mike and Joe Domingo with ex. Gygax running gear and new 16 swg. tub, I think that maybe they used Gygax's F3 running gear from his ex. Monaco remains , which gives us the Gygax connection and stitched up a new tub and sent them on their way.
The only thing that troubles me is why the 022 note .

Note Gygax's F3 car was ch. no. M1-020-F3 , listed as 1975 Works/Gygax.

If the Domingo car never had a plate as you believe , then it probably has an identity of ex Gygax F3 / rebuilt as Atlantic , and all the stuffing around with converting Brise's Atlantic back and forth and Gygax driving that car as well possibly confused them then, let alone us now.

I am happy to look at any scenarios , but the end result is my car still has M1-022-FA/75 plate on it.

The other car that I have no more knowledge of is Brise's post British G.P. car then used by Tim Brise , and then I found a note which said it was used by David Purley at Macau in 1975 and 1976 , but what then , and more importantly no factory record of it's identity, and it was built by mid 1975.

Regards Bryan.

P.S. maybe this will entice Chris back, and get him away from his Chevrons.

IANHEB · 17 Sep 2003, 08:00 (Ref:1556210)

Bryan
Wow...all that from memory is very impressive.I don't have any other scenarios to offer,and agree that an original plate on an original constructers tub/chassis backed with good research is pretty conclusive.
What are your thoughts on the gearboxs,the Domingo car has FT 943 which was invoiced to Modus on 5/3/74 and yours is 959 which i guess was made a month or so later (any info ? ).I would have thought that a small company like Modus would only buy an expensive FT200 when an FA car was nearing completion,so maybe these were the only 2 during 1974.Would the F3 cars have had a Mk9 with MK5/F3 ratios ?
Regards
IAN

Chris Townsend · 17 Sep 2003, 08:43 (Ref:1556211)

Brise's first Atlantic M3 debuts at John Player round 5 on May 12 1974. According to Autosport the car is 'completed in the early hours'.
At the same meeting is an M3 for Walkinshaw described as 'a week old'

At JP round 9, Brands Hatch July 20, Brise appears in an M1 with a BDA in the back and running F3 wheels for lower drag. At the same meeting Walkinshaw purees his M3 when the steering wheel breaks [as if].
Brise gets through a lot of accidents towards the end of '74 and may have done serious damage to the car at Mallory October 13 as he doesn't appear in any of the end of season races.

The Modus records seem to start at 006-F3, an M1 sold to Michael Rand and used in SCCA FC 1975-77
Wihout records we have to account for the following cars in 1974 which are known in race reports [There are only five which tallies with the gap in sales records]

A: The first car built [so M1-001-F3] for Bob Arnott in UK F3. Then Brise when Arnott wasn't quick enough. Used by Gygax at Monaco F3 [described as the Arnott car in a race report]. ?Peter Clark 1975 British F3? Then sold to Dud Moseley who built his S2000 Motus around it.

B: The Walkinshaw M3

C: The Brise M3

D: An M1 sold to Obermoser and raced by Peter Scharmann from May 74

E: The M5 F5000 car used by Walkinshaw in late season races.

I'm guessing that the FT gearboxes you guys have would have been for the Brise and Walkinshaw cars which appeared in May. So, Ian I think you are right, only two M3s in '74. Why Brise switches from the M3 back to an M1 I don't know. Maybe there was a testing accident?

The M1 with which Brise appears from JP9 onwards has to be a rebuilt works F3 car [so M1-001-F3]. When he appears at the start of 1975 it's with an M3 [009?]

Now back to those Chevrons!

Chris

Bryan Miller · 17 Sep 2003, 09:29 (Ref:1556212)

Chris and Ian.

Chris you may have fallen in to the same trap I did early on,i.e. when they switched bodywork the press seemed to get confused and called the same car M1 or M3 , as from all my reading of race reports it appears to be the same car in the first half of 75 up untill Monaco.

What I have never seen ref. to is the 74 Brise Atlantic car in anybody else's hands.
The car seemed to dissapear as an Atlantic, I feel it was probably turned back into an F3 renta. or suchlike.
To back that up I remember reading in one race report that the car had a Mk9, so I feel this car probably at the end of 74 reverted .

What we also don't have is any identity / ch.no in the records relating to snappy toms 1st. Atlantic which was 1974 early , and after the accident there is a fair chance given tha FT 200 no. that it may have hung around and ended up in the Domingo car.
That being the case and if the FT200 no's are reasonably correct in as far as delivery , perhaps as Chris suggests near the end of 74 and Brise didn't appear again in Atlantic, his 74 gearbox went into his 1st. 75 Atlantic car which is my brothers, after a poss. accident that junked the 74 car.
Way back I stated that the 1st. round description of 1975 for Brise's car was confusing , you could read it 2 ways, one as a new style car with different bulkheads etc.and last years style suspension , or a seriously rebuilt 74 car rebuilt with new bulkheads etc.
I really don't know.
If the above is the caseone would expect it to have an earlier ch.pl. than 022.

I somehow dought we will ever solve this one,as a small company they would have done what ever was neccesary to go racing and at this distance we would be very lucky if anybody remembered the fine points we are talking about here.
Chris, I think M1-009-FA was more than likely not the early 75 Brise car , unless he destroyed it , then got 022 for the races up to Monaco then rec'd his 3rd Atlantic for 75 for the British G.P. 1975and used the gearbox etc. from the 009 which went into 022.

Best I can do.

Now back to answering pesky Australian Gold Star questions.

Bryan.

Bryan Miller · 17 Sep 2003, 09:42 (Ref:1556213)

Ian.

Can you contact the current owner of the Domingo car , and see if they know where to look for the tub. number , as that may assist if it is still on the car.
On mine it is behind the drivers right hand shoulder , on the rear vertical alloy bulkhead , facing rearwards , that is on the eng. bay side , just under the support plate for the top radius rod pickup.
Also does the car have parallel link rear bottom off a cast mag. structure bolted to the FT200 by 4 1/2 unf bolts , or is it standard wishbone bottom.
Ours is paralell link.

Bryan.

IANHEB · 17 Sep 2003, 11:14 (Ref:1556214)

Bryan,
The car has the magnesium plate and parallel links.As to a number,i will have to go and have a look myself as the owner is not really bothered about that type of thing.Notwithstanding this,thats all i have on the Domingo car,as you guys seem way ahead of me already.
The other not so pesky Modus to come here was of course the Dave Charlton car,which he sold mid 76 when his new March 76B arrived.Kevin Stopford bought the car,and scored a few points in the 77 FA Championship but damaged it badly late 77/78,and the tub was scrapped.The gearbox has appeared on a modified Sports 2000 and the rear corners on a locally built Tiga C2 type car.The rear uprights bear the casting number M2.Shame about that really.
Ian