LMS to be World Series within 5 years

[CarolK]

Please NO Long Beach - much prefer "fan friendly" places! Laguna Seca is far better. Hockenheim would be nice too. Will be checking out Portugal in July. Catalunya is very easy to access with the hotel above the train station...

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by CarolK

Please NO Long Beach - much prefer "fan friendly" places! Laguna Seca is far better.

I agree. By "for the crowd" I meant full stands, not a good experience for the spectator.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by CarolK

Please NO Long Beach - much prefer "fan friendly" places! Laguna Seca is far better. Hockenheim would be nice too. Will be checking out Portugal in July. Catalunya is very easy to access with the hotel above the train station...

Pleasem not Hockeneheim either - dull, lifeless place with a cicuit not a shadow of its former self.

[Tim the Grey]

Ok, so LMS is to be 2nd biggest in 5 years. Assuming F1 has thoroughly imploded up Bernie's orifice by then , who ARE we 2nd to??? WTCC? WRC?

As to UK race venue? Donington please. LOVELY track. Oh, except it won't exist then...

*SOBS*

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Ok, so LMS is to be 2nd biggest in 5 years. Assuming F1 has thoroughly imploded up Bernie's orifice by then , who ARE we 2nd to??? WTCC? WRC?

As to UK race venue? Donington please. LOVELY track. Oh, except it won't exist then...

*SOBS*

Well, I'm happy so long as it isn't Silverstone.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Mal

To be fair if the Asian LM series finally happens it would be easy to create using the 2 races in Asia; some or all of the existing LMS races plus Sebring and PLM. Those entered in the world series could score points towards that as well as the regional championship. The cost to create would be minimal - you just need the entrants.

So, they throw away a bunch of successful ALMS races and keep a bunch of failure LMS races? How very, very French (or European, I should say).

When you get some fans to show up for those LMS races, give us a holler over here in the colonies. We'd be happy to consider racing. In the meantime, there's not one LMS race that touches the top five ALMS races for attendance. And the so-called Asian Le Mans Series hasn't even happened yet, after two aborted tries.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Pleasem not Hockeneheim either - dull, lifeless place with a cicuit not a shadow of its former self.

Indeed that's true and since the long straight exists anymore the track is useless for endurance...

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

If they're going to do it, I think the smaller teams can race within the race within 'regional' championships - ie WR is simply never going to race at Interlagos or San Luis, but they can be part of a European Championship for the Euro racers that only the small(er) teams can afford to race in.

What would you have as the races, too?
It would be great to have:

Sebring
Brands Hatch
San Luis
Interlagos
Kylami
Le Mans
Petit
Long Beach
Fuji
Dubai
Spa
And that new circuit planned for Korea (not the F1 one)

Long Beach? Not Mosport? Not Road America (for the track, not the idiotic local management)? Kylami? Brands Hatch? Fuji? What races are there? That's pure crazy crap.

I'll have some of what he's smoking.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by TWK

So, they throw away a bunch of successful ALMS races and keep a bunch of failure LMS races? How very, very French (or European, I should say).

Who is throwing away? And what are they throwing away? ALMS is US, LMS is European and Le Mans is French... so you are talking about three organisations.

Originally Posted by TWK

When you get some fans to show up for those LMS races, give us a holler over here in the colonies. We'd be happy to consider racing. In the meantime, there's not one LMS race that touches the top five ALMS races for attendance. And the so-called Asian Le Mans Series hasn't even happened yet, after two aborted tries.

The holler are the 24 h of le Mans - for shure one of the so called three biggest and famous race events worldwide... and also the figurehead for LMS and ALMS...

[isynge]

I hear what you're saying Tom, but equally I can see where Ginger's coming from. Brands, Fuji, and Kyalami all have fantastic sportscar heritage, but we need to realise the world's changed, just like these tracks have.

All I can do is reiterate my profound belief that the US (drawn broadly to encompass North America) can quite easily stand on its own two feet and if a predominantly European series wants to run elsewhere (Asia, South America, and I'd love to see something in Africa) then fine, so much the better for the two. Ideally, and I appreciate this is entirely aspirational, we'd see the North American classics counting for both, but Sebring, PLM, and Laguna Seca right now have the pulling power to bring in the best of anyone in the sportscar world (just like Le Mans does) and there's no reason why that shouldn't persist.

Deep down though the more I think about this, and looking back through TATS and looking at some WSPC season review videos it's always going to be hard to break out one core in Europe and one in the US - and ultimately over the past few decades that's been a system that's worked well for all concerned. I'm all in favour of branching out - I actually thought the Mil Milhas as an LMS round worked well and with a bit better organisation could have had real legs - but let's not delude ourselves that this is somehow a dagger pointed at the heart of the ALMS.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

If they're going to do it, I think the smaller teams can race within the race within 'regional' championships - ie WR is simply never going to race at Interlagos or San Luis, but they can be part of a European Championship for the Euro racers that only the small(er) teams can afford to race in.

What would you have as the races, too?
It would be great to have:

Sebring
Brands Hatch
San Luis
Interlagos
Kylami
Le Mans
Petit
Long Beach
Fuji
Dubai
Spa
And that new circuit planned for Korea (not the F1 one)

Your missing an Aussie track in there!!

It might seem biased coming from an Aussie but either Phillip Island or Bathurst would be worthy contenders to host an World Championship race. I think PI is already certified to hold such a race (Im not sure about Bathurst) but to see a full field of protos and GTs flying down Conrod Straight or into turn one at PI would be fantastic.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by rich07

World Championship

World-wide series...

[rich07]

aha.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by isynge

I hear what you're saying Tom, but equally I can see where Ginger's coming from. Brands, Fuji, and Kyalami all have fantastic sportscar heritage, but we need to realise the world's changed, just like these tracks have.

Yes, the "old" Kyalami had heritage. The new track is a shadow of it's former self. No comparison possible!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Do A1 GP and DTM have 45+ car grids? i think not.

the track is simply to small.

I dont think its a matter of the track being too small , more they dont have the pit space .

It wasnt too small for Group C , was it or F1?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Donington please. LOVELY track. Oh, except it won't exist then...

What , whats this all about ? Not another bloody housing project ?

With Donington gone and Brands Hatch too small , what does that leave us with ? The imaginative and thoroughly boring Silverstone !!!

I expect to get bolloked for saying thet !!!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TWK

So, they throw away a bunch of successful ALMS races and keep a bunch of failure LMS races? How very, very French (or European, I should say).

When you get some fans to show up for those LMS races, give us a holler over here in the colonies. We'd be happy to consider racing. In the meantime, there's not one LMS race that touches the top five ALMS races for attendance. And the so-called Asian Le Mans Series hasn't even happened yet, after two aborted tries.

I'd suggest the ACO and LMS organisors are more interested in bringing Asian manufactuers, teams and sponsors into a World Series.

The likes of Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Honda etc. not only have long Le Mans histories, they also sell millions of cars in Europe. The ALMS could offer Corvette and Panoz, but their market is premoniantly the US, with Europe taken care of by customers, afterall there are approximately 6-8 GT1 Corvette's currently competing in the LMS, FIA GT and French GT.

I haven't read anything about this proposal yet, but I assume it's only being discussed as the Asian Le Mans Series events have superb entry lists with plenty of European teams.

I wouldn't expect any series to consist of more than 8 races, the core LMS events, two in Asia, plus one other.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by TWK

So, they throw away a bunch of successful ALMS races and keep a bunch of failure LMS races? How very, very French (or European, I should say).

When you get some fans to show up for those LMS races, give us a holler over here in the colonies. We'd be happy to consider racing. In the meantime, there's not one LMS race that touches the top five ALMS races for attendance. And the so-called Asian Le Mans Series hasn't even happened yet, after two aborted tries.

Who said anything about throwing away any races?? You are completely missing my points.

If you read my post it said that the world series would be on top of the regional series and the rounds in each region that counted to the world series would allocate points to both depending on who was entered in which championship. No races would be lost. It could only do good as it would add to the car count and would broaden the TV audience by offering more relavence to viewers outside Europe and the States.

In reality it is happening already without the official tag as some of the top European teams head to Sebring and PLM as well as doing LMS and some US teams head to Europe in June - if those same teams are willing to do Asia you already have it in all but name.

What my comments have to do about attendances at races and complexes you may have about being in the 'colonies' is totally irrelavent to the discussion.

...and no the Asian series hasnt happened but it is planned and there is no harm in setting out a 5 year plan as there is no harm in us discussing it.

Have you eaten some of Murphy's poop?

[Mal]

Originally Posted by isynge

Deep down though the more I think about this, and looking back through TATS and looking at some WSPC season review videos it's always going to be hard to break out one core in Europe and one in the US - and ultimately over the past few decades that's been a system that's worked well for all concerned. I'm all in favour of branching out - I actually thought the Mil Milhas as an LMS round worked well and with a bit better organisation could have had real legs - but let's not delude ourselves that this is somehow a dagger pointed at the heart of the ALMS.

To me this is aimed squarely at the manufacturers such as Peugeot, Audi Aston, Toyota etc who would benefit from worldwide marketing and who may be interested in competing beyond the regioanl championship on a visually more global stage. As I said above some already do that in reality so why not give them the platform to get the publicity benefits.

If the ACO try and create a stand alone championship then it will be a huge mistake and will fail miserably IMO - but if they use the prestige events in each area that currently or are planned to exist then it could have some legs.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by TWK

Long Beach? Not Mosport? Not Road America (for the track, not the idiotic local management)? Kylami? Brands Hatch? Fuji? What races are there? That's pure crazy crap.

I'll have some of what he's smoking.

Nelson Ledges; go back to when racers were men. When pitching a tent, and peeing in a pit toilet were the norm and no cared because they were there to race.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I dont think its a matter of the track being too small , more they dont have the pit space .

It wasnt too small for Group C , was it or F1?

I think the horse is being put behind the cart here, the "series" is a dream at this point and what tracks--heck at this point bad choice is relative.

Bring them up to Donnybrooke, that five thousand foot straight will see who gots the ponies.
Bob

[TWK]

My point is that it's kind of far out to think that there will be venues ADDED to sports car racing, that teams will go more places to pursue some international championship in addition to their LMS, ALMS, (or fictional) Asian Le Mans Series.

How many fly-away raced have been proposed, planned and cancelled in the past few years - in a good economic environment? I remain somewhat skeptical that the apparantly large fields in LMS will hold up through the season, and that the Asian thing will happen on the third try.

For instance, ALMS pledged travel assistance for teams at its state of the series presentation at Petit Le Mans last year. Given the financial stresses that organization is under, I'll be very surprised if any of that will come through. Will local sponsors be found? (Have there been announcements?) It could happen, but if I were to have to bet....

So, speculating about some new championship run at very questionable venues strikes me as, well, indicative that there's some of that whacky tobacky out there.

If you want a World Championship, simple designate current events as that and do some schedule adjustment - as minimal as possible. South Africa? Some people race at Dubai...does anyone attend? (They don't, and with the collapse of Dubai's economy, I wonder if you'll see that enduro next year.)

Fantasizing about such a championship has been an annual "rite" on many of these forums. Have at it. But thinking we're "close to it," or adding tracks in Africa, or that have little or no recent sports car history is a little "far out" I think.

If you're going to do that, then why not just do as Riebe suggests and add Brainard International (aka Donnybrook), or Pueblo Motorsports Park?

[AndrewF31]

They could combine 2 or 3 races from ALMS and LMS to improvise a Cup title. It could be a bit of an incentive for LMS and ALMS teams to cross the pond more often.

Something like Sebring, Spa, Nurburgring, Silverstone, Petit Le Mans and Laguna Seca taking into account this season's calendar for example.

You see very few teams from America and Europe, except for Peugeot and Audi sometimes, thinking about competing on other continents aside from the 24 hours.

It would be nice to see Flying Lizards, Risi and the BMW at Nurburgring or Pescarolo, Oreca, Imsa and Felbermayr at Laguna Seca.

[tlongman]

If they do have some sort of world series where LMS and ALMS teams cross the pond more often, I wonder if they would increase the length of the ALMS races. LMS races are 6 hrs. long about, so maybe a race like Road America would be extended to 6 hours. THAT would be great race.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by rich07

Your missing an Aussie track in there!!

It might seem biased coming from an Aussie but either Phillip Island or Bathurst would be worthy contenders to host an World Championship race. I think PI is already certified to hold such a race (Im not sure about Bathurst) but to see a full field of protos and GTs flying down Conrod Straight or into turn one at PI would be fantastic.

LMPs at Mount Panorama!!!!
that would be awesome, but can't see it being "safe"...then again, i've seen some nasty LMP/GT shunts at RoadATL up close and personal.

you see where this is going...some fans and some teams would get the complete and utter shaft for this to happen, but it is something that i have been longing for...a return of another very important world championship that has been neglected over the years.

i'd like to see more euro teams at PLM (my "home race") but at what price???
complete ax of the rest of the series and some of the North American teams altogether???
i guess i'm not seeing exactly how it would work...