LMS to be World Series within 5 years - Page 5

Brake Check · 12 Jun 2009, 17:19 (Ref:2481150)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

That pales in comparison to what all but two ALMS events draw each year...the only two races that draw about 30K or less are Lime Rock and Utah...Everything else is double the LMS figures and in a lot of cases, more than double...

FWIW

You really think Road America draws more than 30K people? Don't get me wrong I wish it did, but I've been there the last 2 years and the Saturday night crowd is about equal to what Champ Car was pulling in on Sunday from 2005 to 2007.

Brake Check · 12 Jun 2009, 17:24 (Ref:2481154)

As several other posters have pointed a world series, especially now, is pointless unless you run races that piggyback on the local championship. That way you can fill the field with local entries while the few teams with the budgets and the desire to compete for a world championship can still do battle. Speed-kings schedule is about what I would have, cut one LMA and AsLMS race each, and except why not have Le Mans count as well?

The other problem is who wants a world championship? The teams? The manufactures? The fans? I personally think it's pretty cool but I've seen too many world championships go down in flames. I'd rather see further solidication of sports car racing around the world first through the strengthening of the AsLMS and maybe a South American LMS and a Pacific LMS (South Africa, Australia, Indonesia?). It would give you even more events and more paying customers for a world championship too.

Purist · 12 Jun 2009, 19:23 (Ref:2481205)

Perhaps you're forgetting how large Road America is (4.048 miles to the lap and over 500 acres). I was there the past two years as well, and I would not be surprised if the place pulled 60k+.

Conversely, Lime Rock would probably be packed at about 35-40k, given that the track is but 1.54 miles around.

Last year, following Mid-Ohio I believe, there was a piece on the ALMS website giving average event attendance for the six rounds up to then as 82,xxx (sorry I don't remember the exact figure). Even if Sebring pulled 180k (regardless of how many of them were just partiers), the other five would have to average ~62,500 to get that figure. If the figures are to be believed, PLM also pulls quite a crowd: 90-100k.

There's not much point in debating such figures; either you believe them or not, and fighting about it will only earn you a headache without getting you anywhere. Besides, the numbers for at least the large events over here aren't out of whack, since Le Mans in good years is said to pull 250-300k, and 350k in a really good year.

The idea of a world championship does excite me as well, but there will still need to be a significant domestic series here to keep presence among viewers.

Tim Northcutt · 12 Jun 2009, 19:43 (Ref:2481216)

Let me ask all of the supporters of this concept one question:

How many LMS teams made the trip from Europe to Brazil?

Based on that, how many do you think will travel to the USA and/or Asia under this new concept?

deggis · 12 Jun 2009, 21:16 (Ref:2481264)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

There's not much point in debating such figures; either you believe them or not, and fighting about it will only earn you a headache without getting you anywhere. Besides, the numbers for at least the large events over here aren't out of whack, since Le Mans in good years is said to pull 250-300k, and 350k in a really good year.

350k?! I think you have 100k too much there

Quick googling:
http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...B_2432_gb.html
http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...as_2007_gb.pdf (page 2)

1992: 139 000
...
2004: 199 000
...
2007: 250 952
2008: 258,000

2007 was "biggest crowd ever" according to ACO, so 2008 is new record then...

AndrewF31 · 12 Jun 2009, 23:55 (Ref:2481321)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Let me ask all of the supporters of this concept one question:

How many LMS teams made the trip from Europe to Brazil?

Based on that, how many do you think will travel to the USA and/or Asia under this new concept?

The early interest in the Asian LMS, albeit with financial support from the ACO bodes well.

Of course, if there's only incentives for the top finishers and audi and peugeot go, they may have trouble convincing some petrol guys like pesca and oreca, unless there's more incentives or additional measures to briing the cars closer together.

deggis · 14 Jun 2009, 15:28 (Ref:2483100)

Not my finding: "World Le Mans Series" is a trademark. Probably has been for a long time but interesting anyhow. It is listed on page 18 of the sporting regs:

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/re...ortif_2009.pdf

JAG · 14 Jun 2009, 16:11 (Ref:2483117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

That pales in comparison to what all but two ALMS events draw each year...the only two races that draw about 30K or less are Lime Rock and Utah...Everything else is double the LMS figures and in a lot of cases, more than double...

FWIW

Outside of Sebring, PLM, and the odd race like Mosport, the races don't appear to be packed out to the tune of 60k+ each.

The ALMS has the figures to back up a successful series, spectator numbers, TV, sponsorship etc., but it doesn't appear to translate into entries.

Quote:

Let me ask all of the supporters of this concept one question:

How many LMS teams made the trip from Europe to Brazil?

Based on that, how many do you think will travel to the USA and/or Asia under this new concept?

Apparently manufactuers and larger teams have been asking for this, Brazil had potential but doesn't have the heritage of Sebring, PLM or Laguna, the Asian events also have the potential to not only open up a large market to European/US manufactuers, but also attract major Asian manufactuers.

HORNDAWG · 17 Jun 2009, 17:40 (Ref:2485357)

Depending on how it was scheduled a "World Le Mans Series" could be worked in. Coming from the ether of Le Mans is:

Quote:

It is the brainchild of Olivier Quesnel, mentioned in Le Mans: establish a kind of World Cup with two endurance races of 24 hours, including Le Mans, and two courses of 12 hours, Sebring (United States USA). Peugeot proposes that the other two take place in Brazil (Interlagos) and China, for obvious reasons.

more at L'Equipe

L.P.

Fogelhund · 17 Jun 2009, 17:47 (Ref:2485360)

I wouldn't doubt that Braselton wouldn't insist that PLM be part of that schedule too. It certainly would be interesting, but I'm not certain of how many cars would enter.

duke_toaster · 17 Jun 2009, 17:57 (Ref:2485364)

Surely if an Asian event is desired could the Suzuka 1000km could be wrestled from JGTC? Suzuka does have a reputation that most other circuits in Asia don't.

Bob Riebe · 17 Jun 2009, 18:06 (Ref:2485369)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brake Check

You really think Road America draws more than 30K people? Don't get me wrong I wish it did, but I've been there the last 2 years and the Saturday night crowd is about equal to what Champ Car was pulling in on Sunday from 2005 to 2007.

I was at the Redman sponsored vintage race at Road America a short time back, and they said the weekend crowd was about 100,000.
I only went Sunday and the crowd was no larger, and actually a bit smaller than many races in the past that listed daily at 25,000 on Sunday.

A gent I spoke to said the Saturday crowd was absolutely huge, with people standing several "rows" deep to see items, even in the paddock, but I cannot see under current formula, or financial climate, an IMSA race, or any supposed world champioship, drawing more than sixty thousand for the weekend at very best.

deggis · 17 Jun 2009, 18:15 (Ref:2485375)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

more at L'Equipe

This "calendar Quesnel" What has seduced the major manufacturers such as Toyota, Fiat (Ferrari) and even Renault...

Umm...

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