[LM24] Porsche in top category at Le Mans 24

[sssssssss]

I think it's time for Porsche to return to Le Mans. It would be great to see that long-avoided (by the officials) battle between Audi and Porsche.

Does anybody have any specific technical data about the car that Porsche wanted to compete with at Le Mans 24 2000? The car that became the Carrera GT in order not to disturb Audi too much. I don't think it would have been so much trouble for the legendary Audi R8 to compete even with Porsche. If we look at Porsche's latest victories at Le Mans, none of them was based on sheer speed, but rather on excellent reliability, which the competition did not have. But Audi always had it so... Porsche would have had to be quicker than Audi... and that's problematic

What do you think?

[SebringMG]

Not gonna happen with the change in rules until at least 2009 i would think.

Out of interest could a private team who bought a P2 variant convert it to P1 spec? What would they need to do? Bigger restrictor and more weight? Would not be an offical Porsche conversion......but must be kinda tempting

[dj choc ice]

to modify the P2 porsche to P1 you would probably need to do the following to it.

stiffen the chassis and modify the chassis
new body work
new or modified suspension and geomatry and brake's
heavily modified or new engine and gearbox
engine bay modifications on a big scale
wheel arch, hub, lining rework for the wider and bigger LMP1 spec wheels
new cooling system or atleast rework
modified tub
modified electric's

you would need to do a lot of work on the car, i would say particularly the engine and gearbox and the chassis and suspension, the parts have to take and extra 150kg of weight and it would mean big mods and also an extra 100-150bhp or so as well.

[Woolley]

Would be good to see, though. I wonder if the proposed change to coupes would be more relevant to the brand? Might encourage them to step up.

[sssssssss]

i think definitely the coupe thing would attract more worldwide-known manufacturers (and i'd especially like to see porsche back ). remember the amount of manufacturers in the 1998-1999 editions of le mans, when the coupes were the top category... porsche, toyota, mercedes, audi, bmw, nissan etc.

also, to be kept in mind that bentley came to le mans with closed prototypes, peugeot now came with a closed prototype... it would be great to see those beautiful audi coupe prototypes back too! and maybe against some lmp1 porsches

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by SebringMG

Not gonna happen with the change in rules until at least 2009 i would think.

Out of interest could a private team who bought a P2 variant convert it to P1 spec? What would they need to do? Bigger restrictor and more weight? Would not be an offical Porsche conversion......but must be kinda tempting

I think that without Porsche approval, they might find that getting parts in the future would be a problem.

[sssssssss]

i read that for 2000, porsche actually wanted to get their legendary flat engine that provided their record number of victories with the 956-962's back into a new, open prototype car. but would the regulations allow for that engine nowadays, or even in 2000? i kind of doubt it...

[bil588]

Not going to happen says Porsche's motorsport boss Hartmut Kristen

the P1 engine regs need to be changed

http://translate.google.com/translat...t/view/2821/1/

From the May, 2007 issue of 911 & Porsche World:

The new RS Spyder costs 1,250,000 Euros, (£850,340), or around $1.7 million.

Hartmut Kristen, head of Porsche Motorsport, on diesels in P1:

"It came closer this year, the first step in balancing the energy content that a car could carry. That is one step, but I think there are more steps that need to be taken so that gasoline-powered cars are brought to an equal performance level compared to diesel-powered cars."

[The359]

Funny you bring up the failed "LMP2000". I wrote a Wikipedia entry on it the other day, which has some information as well as links to two great articles on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_LMP

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

i read that for 2000, porsche actually wanted to get their legendary flat engine that provided their record number of victories with the 956-962's back into a new, open prototype car. but would the regulations allow for that engine nowadays, or even in 2000? i kind of doubt it...

Had read in something that the flat also had the prob of raising the center of gravity to clear the underbody aero work and so the F1 developed V10 was modified for endurance running.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

If we look at Porsche's latest victories at Le Mans, none of them was based on sheer speed, but rather on excellent reliability, which the competition did not have.

They may not have had the quickest times, but their straight line speed was'nt bad. (fastest straight line speed in 1997 (326 km/h)).

[Spyderman]

This is indeed an interesting (at least to me) question.
With the further castration in 2008 of the P2 class by the ACO , Porsche has once again been firmly removed from any chance to compete for overall wins at Le Mans.(and most other tracks)
Hartmut Kristen has said that Porsche will not return to Le Mans unless they are able to compete for overall victories.
So the question is: Does Porsche continue to invest in sports car racing (namely at prototype level) without competing for overall wins?
Is this a sustainable strategy for the future and does it fit in with Porsche ‘s marketing plans?

I sincerely doubt it!
The time is rapidly approaching when serious decisions must be taken.

[SebringMG]

Well the P2 effort is/was funded by Porsche North America not Porsche AG and given the number of cars they have shifted i doubt they are too bothered about a P1 effort atm. Remember the P2 cars have never really been able to compete for overall wins and any one who developed a car for P2 in the hope of competeing for overall wins was wasting there money!!

Porsche are not stupid and would have realised that the P2 class would be gimped at some point hence the plans to move up to P1 which have been knocked off course by the diesel regs.

Now i would suspect IF the diesels are knocked back sufficiently we will have two possible situations 1/ Audi and Pug withdraw (bad for the sport) or 2/ Audi and Pug build petrol engines to prove their point.

The first situation would be very bad for LM (not necesarily for the ALMS or LMS) but the second could be kinda interesting It would not surprise me to see an R10 chassis fitted with the R8 engine at some point......especially considering the relative failure of the |Swiss Spirit project......imo a bad choice of team, though as i understand it the team approached audi first.

Have to say if i had the money (lol like that is ever gonna happen )would probably combine the audi engine with a chassis from either zytek or lola.

[minimangler]

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/porschelmp1.html
This is pictures, tech analysis, the works, but not as detailed as the rest on this site because its so hush hush, and hardly any bugger knows anything about it.

[Tim the Grey]

Clearly, the little detail drawing at the bottom is NOT the same as whatever is in the grainy photos. The rear aero is completely different.
An interesting insight into mainboard politics at the end though...

[The359]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Clearly, the little detail drawing at the bottom is NOT the same as whatever is in the grainy photos. The rear aero is completely different.
An interesting insight into mainboard politics at the end though...

The tech drawing at the bottom is Mulsanne Mike's logo for the rest of his website.

[brielga]

The dieselmotor was never that good in racing. But as we have seen in Lemans a diesel is very fast. And for Porsche it can be good advertising because not much factory's make diesel motors en the other teames saw that a diesel motor goes quiker so they want to buy a diesel motor but you can (almoust )only by peugot buy a diesel motor. But on the other side much teams think its unfair that peugot races because the have other rules with the car than the others because they have a dieselmotor.
That was how i thougt.
Manon.(daugther of brielga )

[brielga]

oops, seems I need parental control here lol

[GTfour]

Let's face it,when the regulations would be equalled again,the diesels would show that they're not at all that fast. Honestly,what do you think what a 5,5 liter V12 twinturbo petrolengine would do to the diesels of Audi and Pug?
The hole diesel thing is nothing more then a political hype and an emberrasment for the sport AND it keeps the Porsches and Ferarri's away...

[sssssssss]

still i think if porsche really want to compete for overall victory they should come with an LMP1 car. LMP1 is the top class, it's the real thing. LMP1 was designed for overall victory. why wouldn't they do that? the regulations that allowed the LMP2 porsches to run that quick (on slower circuits, because obviously they couldn't have matched audi and peugeot on a track like le mans no matter what the regulations would be) weren't less of a political hype than those made to fasten up the diesels. and i'd truly love to see porsche back in the top category, but it's just not aesthetic and not right (at least for my eyes) to see those little LMP2 cars go as fast as the LMP1's.

for spyderman: indeed in 1997 the porsche GT1 evo was the fastest car on the straights but it did not win le mans 1997. and as soon as the big manufacturers came to le mans (that is 1998 basically) the porsches were significantly slower than the other top cars. they were rather lucky with mercedes and toyota not being reliable enough, and the mclaren bmw's not fast enough. but for sure, i'd like to see that kind of GT1/closed prototype porsches back on track - they were such beautiful cars! and still... quite fast

[Aysedasi]

Gimme a roof any day.......

(As I've been saying for as long as anybody's been willing to listen....... )

[CUT 7]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Gimme a roof any day.......

(As I've been saying for as long as anybody's been willing to listen....... )

As the first post in this thread said, its time for porsche to return to LM.
I say its time that the georgious Mdme Ecclestone shagged the arse seriously off her Mr so hes too befudled to notice when the old pre-atmo GP C rules are reinstated & LM is therefor given its natural status as THE most interesting & important event.
And F1 can , well whatever.
Interestingly enough there was an artical in Autosport that basicly said F1 should go away & die.
Did anyone in the UK notice that there was no report on LM in the national papers? Thats very sad.
Mr Hamilton got 4 pages.Fair enough.
But nothing on LM? Sad , v sad.

[Adam43]

You may be interested in these two threads on Autosport:
I've done it - I've cancelled Autosport &
Autosport Le Mans Supplement

However, let us stick to Sportscar rcing here...

I'd love Porsche to challenge for overall wins again, but for reasons said above, it doesn't seem that on.

[Gil Abobeleira]

What does Porsche gain with Audi winning LeMans (shifting more cars to the road, I suspect)??

Well, they own 30% of VAG, which in turn owns 100% of Audi... So Audi owes them (Porsche) 30% of their (Audi's) profits...












... better claim that the rules are wrong, while receiving more dividends from other company (Audi)

[chewymonster]

Yep, and even tough Porsche owns that almost 30% of VW. It needs VW much more, because even currently about 50% of their sales are VW dependent and soon that will increase even more. Probably close to 75% of all Porshes sold will have very strong VW ties in them.