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26 Apr 2022, 05:31 (Ref:4108068) | #551 | ||
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26 Apr 2022, 05:40 (Ref:4108069) | #552 | ||
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Yep - all that needed to be done was beat one team mate, which Lewis managed to do (other than 2016 of course).
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26 Apr 2022, 06:08 (Ref:4108070) | #553 | ||
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George and Lewis feels a bit like Daniel and Seb from 2014
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26 Apr 2022, 10:12 (Ref:4108077) | #554 | ||
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The Merc looked good in the first test week this year, when it had sidepods. Should they go back to that shape?
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26 Apr 2022, 10:37 (Ref:4108081) | #555 | |
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I don't think the side pods has much to do with Mercs issues.
The porpoising is hampering their car more than others, even if it doesn't look more violent than other cars. They've broken the diffuser numerous times, and both drivers are lifting much earlier than others (even other Mercedes powered cars) to control the porpoising before they begin braking. It _appears_ as though they need to stabilise the car before braking more than everyone else. This is also killing top speed and overtaking ability as they brake earlier than everyone. |
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26 Apr 2022, 11:02 (Ref:4108084) | #556 | ||
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I have been reading two theories regarding the Mercedes approach, that are interesting and (if true) reveal a lack of desperation within the team.
The first is that Mercedes have not rushed any upgrades, because they want to fully understand the problem(s) before they go about fixing. The thought being that if they notice an improvement, it would be difficult at this stage to know if it was because of an upgrade or a circuit influence. The second is that they have deliberately made changes that increase the problem(s). It might sound counter-intuitive, but the thought is that if they can deliberately induce the problem in a controlled manner, they will better understand the causes and scale of effects. If either (or both) are true, it would suggest that they are more focused on understanding rather than fixing at this stage. A smart approach - or a result of the cost cap meaning that you only get so much opportunity to fix a problem, so you need to make sure the fix works? |
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26 Apr 2022, 11:53 (Ref:4108094) | #557 | ||
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I am sure that Mercedes will systematically work through this and once they do understand it, will rectify the problem and suddenly find a whole chunk of pace. (They do seem to totally believe in their current concept and consider this an an 'annoying little issue'.)
On a side note, I was surprised to see how the Ferrari was affected with the same problem during last weekends in-car shots from LeClerc. His helmet was bobbing up and down like a buoy in a rough sea at times (and no rude comments please!) |
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26 Apr 2022, 11:58 (Ref:4108098) | #558 | |||
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The side pods play an important role in influencing the airflow over and around the car, as well as the upper edge of the floor. This in turn influences the airflow on the underside of the floor. These two articles in The Race, give a good insight into the issues with regard to Mercedes' lack of side pods, in comparison to Ferrari and Red Bull. https://the-race.com/formula-1/huge-...aris-theories/ https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-...mercedes-flaw/ |
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26 Apr 2022, 12:00 (Ref:4108099) | #559 | |||
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For some reason though - the Mercedes drivers are having to lift earlier before a corner to settle the car, compared to the Ferrari drivers who seem to be able to enter a corner [braking zone] at full speed. |
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26 Apr 2022, 12:51 (Ref:4108106) | #560 | ||
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Also, as referenced by Ferrari, we're seeing a wide range of solutions for the side pods, and yet Mercedes appear to be the team struggling the most with porpoising. The various sided solutions are not having a huge difference on the porpoising - which is what you'd expect, as this is not an unknown phenomenon in ground effect cars. In Mercedes case, it isn't that the car is bouncing more than others - it's that the car can't cope with the level of bouncing it's doing. The drivers cannot attack braking zones and the car has regularly shed parts. |
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26 Apr 2022, 14:03 (Ref:4108115) | #561 | |
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Hamilton does seem to have let his head drop a little bit, while Russell, who is no doubt delighted he has a half decent car, even if it's not the race winner he hoped for, has been inspired. However I wouldn't write Lewis off yet, there's still a long way to go
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26 Apr 2022, 15:25 (Ref:4108128) | #562 | |
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When I first saw the porpoising the health issues was the first thing I thought of. Alan Jones retired from F1 quoting health issues caused by the cars at the time having no suspension movement and the impacts affecting the driver's health and he wanted nothing to do with it. It must be causing some sort of concussive effect on the drivers and the Mercedes would have to the worst car of those that have the problem.
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26 Apr 2022, 15:33 (Ref:4108130) | #563 | ||
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Hamilton will be getting pelters on Twitter and social media for being outperformed by Russell. Looking at the horrendous onboard footage, it's a wonder that either of them are able to drive the cargo for an hour and a half. Perhaps George is adapting to it better?
Mercedes have been constantly brilliant for years on end, and I would not write them off just yet. The noise from Mercedes about this issue is not exactly encouraging though, is it? It does feel a bit like the beginning of McLarens demise, when they went from top of the tree, to then starting to bring in more and more radical car designs that simply didn't work. Probably the 2 situations are not comparable in practice - but that is what is in the back of my mind. |
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26 Apr 2022, 15:42 (Ref:4108132) | #564 | |||
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I'm only basing my thoughts on what has been said publicly by Mercedes, but they do appear (to me) to be quietly confident that their fundamental design is superior to anything else out there, but a the moment there are unable to unleash the advantages of that due to this irritating bouncing. Obviously Mercedes are not unique in suffering the problem, but it clearly has a bigger detrimental effect on their car which does go towards convincing me that if/once they can stabilise the ride-height of the car it should be a flyer! (Obviously, I know nothing, but it is interesting to see how the mighty Mercedes can struggle, and should be similarly interesting to see what happens next/eventually). |
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26 Apr 2022, 16:05 (Ref:4108134) | #565 | |||
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When Alan Jones was driving, the cars were stiffly sprung to get round the ban on sliding skirts that came in in 1980, so a hydraulic system and fixed skirts were used. Once the car had left the pits and was out on the track, the car's ride height was lowered than was legally allowed. The skirts could then operate at this lower height but the cars were very stiffly sprung, so the skirts would remain in contact with the track, sealing the car to the surface. These were eventually banned in at the end of 1982. |
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26 Apr 2022, 17:12 (Ref:4108138) | #566 | |||
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i would have to think that even though the cars are significantly different to those of the past, the issue of repetitive head trauma, even its just an accumulation of relatively minor bumps and bangs (a very medical terms i know) is of significant concern? i would have to think that this has been an issue brought up at least internally within the team or the drivers and their doctors? bit of a what would Sid Watkins think about it situation? |
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26 Apr 2022, 18:27 (Ref:4108147) | #567 | ||
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Given they have accelerometers on both the chassis and driver, and I assume those are data logging during the race, they should have some data to look at from the teams that are having porpoising issues. You have the issue of it being bad, but the drivers being reluctant to speak up. Kudos to George for calling out that the current situation (effects to the drivers body) can't be sustained. I believe that there very well may be a cumulative effect. I also suspect there may be little actual data to be used to set limits for this? Maybe other industries or even military studies might provide starting points on what is safe and what is not. If you ignore the potential for physical injury just due to the continuous hammering, there might be safety concerns about loss of visual acuity due to the oscillations not to mention just pure old fashion "fatigue" of dealing with this for a race duration. Richard |
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26 Apr 2022, 19:42 (Ref:4108158) | #568 | |
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26 Apr 2022, 19:50 (Ref:4108159) | #569 | ||
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26 Apr 2022, 20:57 (Ref:4108168) | #570 | |
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I think Leclerc made some comments over a month ago that it might bring some physical challenges. But I think Russell has been the only one to really call it out as having a real impact on him. And given when it's at it's worst, it is in the Mercedes, so it would be George and Lewis who are probably having the worst time of it. If you have to lift on long straights to get it under control, then it has to be bad.
Richard |
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26 Apr 2022, 21:08 (Ref:4108171) | #571 | |||
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wondering how long it will be before my airpods have an accelerometer built into them! |
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27 Apr 2022, 02:04 (Ref:4108179) | #572 | |
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My mention of Alan Jones was simply to point out that drivers health issues are not new and he had the nous to get out because of it. Athletes have a record of ignoring any mention of concussion if they can avoid it and it has been suggested by some observers that Russel is speaking for himself and also some drivers who are all members of the GPDA in his role as director of that organisation.
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27 Apr 2022, 02:09 (Ref:4108180) | #573 | |
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Yes, this technology has been used for a few years now mainly because they can log the data at point of impact on the driver. When you see G force data a driver is subjected to in a major crash/impact the in ear accelerometers are the major source of those figures as well as the chassis accelerometers.
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27 Apr 2022, 07:01 (Ref:4108193) | #574 | ||
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Just a question about the accelerometers that the drivers 'wear'. Are they fully three-dimensional? Meaning do they measure movement in all directions, or are they mainly there to measure the severe deceleration that may occur during a sudden stop experienced during a crash?
What I'm trying to ask is do they measure the up & down bouncing? |
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27 Apr 2022, 07:14 (Ref:4108196) | #575 | |||
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From the makers of the in-ear device - 'The three spring-riders are mounted at different orientations to respond to motion in three directions: forwards-backwards, left-right and up-down.' and 'For head impacts in Formula One the measurements peak at 400g across all three axes' |
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