Brabham BT23 - Page 18

Andrew Fellowes · 3 Jan 2009, 20:43 (Ref:2364675)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Cullen had brought his own BT23C-11 but may have run it under the IRC banner as he was now driving for IRC. So the Goulding car was definitely BT23C-11. The question mark is over Shanahan's car. Lotus 35? Brabham BT18? Brabham BT23? Brabham BT23C?

So we need a contemporary report to verify? how long did Shanahan get reported as a BT23C, 6 months max?

Andrew

allenbrown · 4 Jan 2009, 12:49 (Ref:2364955)

Four references:

Leinster Trophy in July - Lotus 35 and/or Brabham BT23C
Mondello Park (AS 30 Sep 1971 p55) - BT23C
Mondello Park in September (MN 23 Sep 1971 p15) - BT18 t/c.
IMRC sprint at Ratoath, County Meath on 11 October (MN 21 Oct 1971 p26) - BT23-t/c

Assuming the two Mondello Park references are to the same event, then MN might have made a mistake with the BT18 reference and it should be BT23C throughout. So four months only. I'll let you know if I spot him in 1972 but nothing so far (up to 20 April as I write this).

Andrew Fellowes · 9 Jan 2009, 21:00 (Ref:2368514)

BT23-4
Walter Habegger has confirmed this week that he sold his BT23 to Gérard Pillon. He only had one BT23 and can't recall the number but it came from Winklemann. He then heard that Gérard had an accident and the car was badly damaged.

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 13 Jan 2009, 06:18 (Ref:2370379)

BT23-5

Photo Copyright Denis Lupton

allenbrown · 13 Jan 2009, 08:10 (Ref:2370416)

We need to get hold of Pillon again. Anyone remember who it was that spoke to him?

ianr · 13 Jan 2009, 18:20 (Ref:2370790)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Nice one John!

That potentially explains the BT23 in Japan in 1973 (Koichi Sato's car at the 1973 JAF Japan GP) but causes one or two problems elsewhere.

Here is the history we had for BT23-6 until today:

BT23-6
1967 Whitley Racing Services for Robin Widdows
1968-71 Dr Ehrlich, believed to have been rebuilt as Dr. Ehrlich’s 1969 F3 EMC later raced by Jody Scheckter.
1971-74 G.Hyatt *3
1974-77 R. Strange for hillclimbs. *3
1977-84 D. McLaughlin, (unrestored)
1984-88 P. Coleman, restored.
1989-93 Chris Holland
1993-97 Jay Galpin, full rebuild to correct spec.
1997-00 Barry Marquardt
2000-05 Bob Baker
2006- David Jacobs

I think this is the R Strange in this trail
I have results from Gates Varley Monoposto championship 6th June 1976 Brands Hatch

5th Robin Strange Brabham BT23.

I remembered it because I was also in the results that day (Brabham BT21)!
as monoposto rules allowed series built cars over 5 years old, it was a refuge for many Brabhams and others.

allenbrown · 13 Jan 2009, 19:40 (Ref:2370831)

Most interesting! So even as early as 1976, the EMC was seen as a BT23.

The EMC would have been equally eligible wouldn't it?

Andrew Fellowes · 14 Jan 2009, 00:59 (Ref:2371054)

phdm is the answer,

Quote:

What Gérard Pillon had told me is that he had 3 Brabhams: one F3, one F2 and one IC.
He did not remember what model the F2 was. He did mention chassis n° 5 but I would be rather skeptical about this number for the reasons explained above.
For what it is worth, he said he had bought the car in 1969 from Habegger who had been Swiss champion with it in 1968. He had seen the car at Ollon-Villars. He did not keep it for long (how long ?).
phdm

Andrew Fellowes · 14 Jan 2009, 01:17 (Ref:2371057)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianr

I think this is the R Strange in this trail
I have results from Gates Varley Monoposto championship 6th June 1976 Brands Hatch

5th Robin Strange Brabham BT23.

I remembered it because I was also in the results that day (Brabham BT21)!
as monoposto rules allowed series built cars over 5 years old, it was a refuge for many Brabhams and others.

well that is interesting, and low and behold here it is
1976 A/S June 10th p.49 5th Robin Strange (BT23 Brabham) 6m 11.06
.... race stopped after 4 laps due to Paul Maxwell's horrific accident in the BT21C.

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 14 Jan 2009, 04:24 (Ref:2371098)

follow up question, does it say a home town for Strange?

1976 A/S Sept. 9th p.44 Snetterton, Varley Batteries Monoposto Championship
'Robin Strange had the misfortune to collect a puncture after a good run with his Brabham BT23.'

although once again it says BT23 I suggest that does not influence greatly it being BT23-6 rather than BT23C-4

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 14 Jan 2009, 22:56 (Ref:2371682)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Here's another mystery...
AS 16.6.77 p. 55 Les Aylott/David Knowles have acquired a BT23C from Richard Churchley, used in hillclimbs with a t/c. Reputed to be ex Stommelen.

Aylott still using the car in 1978

When did Stommelen run a BT23 of any kind?

Chris

over on the next page is the Croft report where both Aylott and Applegarth are reported as being in BT23C's or in the case of Aylott a BDA BT23C Turbo which from the p. 55 report was troublesome!

Have we cleared up which car Aylott had yet?

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 15 Jan 2009, 22:36 (Ref:2372349)

BT23C-8 FIA form has as an owner for most of the 70's a Bob Aylott, now I am wondering if the ad mentioned above as a car being reputed ex Stommelen could have been confused with ex Ahrens?

However I have Bill Morris listed under #8, can someone give me the A/S ad date please?

Thanks Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 17 Jan 2009, 22:13 (Ref:2373538)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

BT23C-8 FIA form has as an owner for most of the 70's a Bob Aylott,
However I have Bill Morris listed under #8, can someone give me the A/S ad date please?

Thanks Andrew

correction, the FIA form does indeed have Les Aylott, so that would appear to confirm that ex Stommelen meant ex Ahrens in ad Chris quoted.

Andrew

allenbrown · 17 Jan 2009, 23:06 (Ref:2373565)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Les Aylott/David Knowles have acquired a BT23C from Richard Churchley

Churchley ran at Wiscombe late last season so maybe Steve W can get a contact for him.

Andrew Fellowes · 18 Jan 2009, 07:56 (Ref:2373714)

Allen do you have a ref for the Bill Morris ad?

I am concerned that we are getting close to an overlap of ownership or I have misidentified one,
Thanks Andrew

Steve Wilkinson · 18 Jan 2009, 10:40 (Ref:2373775)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Churchley ran at Wiscombe late last season so maybe Steve W can get a contact for him.

Emails sent, awaiting response.

allenbrown · 18 Jan 2009, 10:48 (Ref:2373781)

The Morris reference came from Chris IIRC.

Chris Townsend · 18 Jan 2009, 16:08 (Ref:2373936)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

The Morris reference came from Chris IIRC.

Morris has BT23C-8 for sale Autosport 10 Feb 1977
that would tie in with Autosport's June article about Aylott getting a BT23C from Churchley

So Morris uses to end 76, then Churchley for beginning of 1977 season and to Aylott in June

Chris

Andrew Fellowes · 19 Jan 2009, 09:44 (Ref:2374299)

BT23C-2
1974 Vic Durman, monposto, source FIA Form.
?

Andrew

allenbrown · 30 Jan 2009, 18:53 (Ref:2382791)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Just got off the phone with Maurice Ogier in the Channel Islands. The BT23C that he ran was the ex-Lythgoe car that Peter Gethin drove - chassis 2. Ogier bought the car less engine and fitted a Vegantune TC which he sourced from Tommy Elton. When he sold the car on at the end of 1972 it went to Low Cost Racing.

Just spotted another event that Ogier took in: BARC SW Gurston Down 25 Jun 1972 (MN 29 Jun 1972 p26) - he was third in class behind Geoff Inglis (Brabham BT14/21 s/c) and Bruce Dean (Lola).

Alan Brown · 4 Feb 2009, 09:49 (Ref:2388013)

Has this advert been noticed before?

Autosport 26 February 1970: “Chris Jackson wishes to dispose of his fabulous Brabham BT23C/21B. Jig built at Racing Frames, new body. This car was professionally built and maintained regardless of cost, is better than new and ready to race in top class F3 having been fully tested and sorted, but is unraced.” [Chippenham Wilts]

Andrew Fellowes · 4 Feb 2009, 21:16 (Ref:2388466)

No, I hadn't,
& this looks like a mix of 21 and 23 too, Revoray MkII or MkIII built for Ray Thomas and I am just wondering if he built the chassis or if it was a reused BT chassis, I've posted on TNF but drawn a complete blank.

photo from Neil Fletcher Racing for illustration purposes only.
Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 5 Feb 2009, 06:15 (Ref:2388680)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

Has this advert been noticed before?

Autosport 26 February 1970: “Chris Jackson wishes to dispose of his fabulous Brabham BT23C/21B. Jig built at Racing Frames, new body. This car was professionally built and maintained regardless of cost, is better than new and ready to race in top class F3 having been fully tested and sorted, but is unraced.” [Chippenham Wilts]

Autoline Garage is no more, the only garage on Bath Road being a BP servo and there seems to be no C Jackson living close by.
Maintained regardless of cost and unraced is an interesting combination.

Andrew

Ted Walker · 5 Feb 2009, 08:00 (Ref:2388705)

I think that it is a BT21 fitted with 23 suspension as was a popular mod in period.He raced a lot a C Combe and remember the car in the 60s

Andrew Fellowes · 16 Feb 2009, 08:12 (Ref:2398321)

When was BT23C-2 built? was end '67 or '68 because as far as I can see the first race was mid '68 with Peter Gethin, is this correct because if so I need to alter the ORC site.

Andrew

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