Le Mans Series 2010 - Page 45

HORNDAWG · 1 Jul 2010, 21:22 (Ref:2720954)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

The time of year for Portimão is not good. It's high season, with accommodation at its highest of the year so it's not cheap going over.
It hasn't helped the race that it was added just when the economy went into a funk but I can understand lemans.pt's point about ASM vs. the central european teams.

If you look at 2007, Nurburgring was on July 1st and it got an entry of 50 cars. Unfortunately, the central european teams are not full of money at the moment and for sure the first race they'll cancel on their agendas is the one furthest from them.

The post-LM syndrome is probably another cause but I think the economy is the biggest problem.
I've never been to the track. I haven't given up hope of driving down there for race day, but I fear this may be the last race for a while there for some of the wrong reasons. If it had appeared on the calendar at a different time, it wouldn't have suffered such a fate I think. Even so last year the turn out wasn't so bad (35) and it is still strange to see a race in this peninsula in July/Aug. Spain and Portugal are more acustomed to racing early or late season.
Daytime racing is especially difficult with the hot summer heat, so I'm only a bit shocked at the support programme. Just very surprised, they could only get a van race.

Yes, it suprised me that they scheduled it during this time of the year again. Maybe if the Spa and Algarve dates could be switched for next year it might help. Also better weather for both, if switched??

L.P.

Speed-King · 1 Jul 2010, 21:26 (Ref:2720955)

Changing the Spa date is like changing the date of Sebring. Having it in early May is a tradition that should not be messed with. They had it in August a few years ago when there was construction worl going on at the track in May, but basically they shouldn't move it around all that much.

HORNDAWG · 1 Jul 2010, 22:10 (Ref:2720972)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Changing the Spa date is like changing the date of Sebring. Having it in early May is a tradition that should not be messed with. They had it in August a few years ago when there was construction worl going on at the track in May, but basically they shouldn't move it around all that much.

Spa could run the 24 in May and the 1000k in late July.

L.P.

Speed-King · 1 Jul 2010, 22:19 (Ref:2720976)

Why?!? Why should Spa overthrow all their traditions just to accomodate a relatively new event like the Algarve race?

There aren't many traditional events left on the LMS-schedule, so why mess with them. Having the 24hours in May isn't a good idea at all - for once because there's another BIG 24 hour race right down the road at the 'Ring at this time of the year. Why not just leave Spa where it is and give Algarve an early spring date? Perhaps at the expense of the race at HTTT, but who cares about that one anyway?

HORNDAWG · 1 Jul 2010, 22:31 (Ref:2720978)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Why?!? Why should Spa overthrow all their traditions just to accomodate a relatively new event like the Algarve race?

There aren't many traditional events left on the LMS-schedule, so why mess with them. Having the 24hours in May isn't a good idea at all - for once because there's another BIG 24 hour race right down the road at the 'Ring at this time of the year. Why not just leave Spa where it is and give Algarve an early spring date? Perhaps at the expense of the race at HTTT, but who cares about that one anyway?

They would be accomodating the LMS. The Rat has already ruined the 24 (as it was) so no harm in moving it (IMO). The reason I suggested the date swap was to keep the SPA noise police happy, achieve better weather for 2 LMS rounds and leave the HTTT pre Le Mans. I guess no one wants any aero work for Le Mans, right?! It was only a thought, and evidently the Algarve round is just a piece of ****e, just cut the season by another race!!!

L.P.

isynge · 2 Jul 2010, 05:20 (Ref:2720999)

To be honest Spa later in the year works for me.

Back in the 1980s it was often later on, and 2004/2007 saw Spa after Le Mans. Yes it seems to work as a Le Mans warm up and gets a good entry list as a result, and I suppose with the GP being in September there's an appeal for the organisers in spreading things out, but I don't see that fiddling with Spa's date would be particularly heretical.

Subaru_WRX_STi · 2 Jul 2010, 05:28 (Ref:2721002)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Spa could run the 24 in May and the 1000k in late July.

why should the RCAB and SRO move the Spa 24 Hours ? to help a foolish event like Portimao ? last year in Portugal was a failure, empy stands, and this year it seems to be worse with this small grid ! look at the LMS races post Le Mans 24 Hours, no one care about them, maybe Silvertone is always a good race with large field, but Portimao and for sure Budapest are useless for most of teams

**Bentley03** · 2 Jul 2010, 11:29 (Ref:2721081)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

.......hopefully see you at Silverstone (LMS/LMIC) in September?

Well, questions answered in a DSC article posted this morning...........

Busy weekend for you and Warren at Silverstone! 2x90 minute Speed races on the Saturday (including the possible debut of the brand new Peter Elleray designed WF03 CN car) and the 1000k LMS race on the Sunday. Will look forward to seeing you there then.......even if it's only a glimpse of you dashing to your next on track engagement!

LeMans.pt · 2 Jul 2010, 12:12 (Ref:2721105)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

a foolish event like Portimao?

Sorry?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

last year in Portugal was a failure, empy stands

I guess Monza and Nürburgring are huge successes...

, or Paul Ricard...

LeMans.pt · 2 Jul 2010, 12:16 (Ref:2721109)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

It was only a thought, and evidently the Algarve round is just a piece of ****e, just cut the season by another race!!!

That's why some things work bad in europe... very small thinking!

Jody Firth · 2 Jul 2010, 15:06 (Ref:2721177)

Yes it will be a very busy weekend. I will most definately do the SPEED races as I am in with a shouting chance of winning the SUNOCO Driver Challange to race at Daytona, and SPEED races contribute to this. My arms and neck may drop off with all that driving!!!

Subaru_WRX_STi · 2 Jul 2010, 20:43 (Ref:2721282)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Sorry?

I guess Monza and Nürburgring are huge successes...

, or Paul Ricard...

the facts are, only Spa and Silverstone have good crowd and large entry lists, sorry but last year event at Algarve again was a failure, maybe for you at the track is was great, but watching the race on Eurosport with all the grandstands empty and a very poor TV coverage, no one can claim that it was a success ! I have a question, why the Superbike at Portimao have a VERY good crowd and not the LMS ?

HORNDAWG · 2 Jul 2010, 21:14 (Ref:2721292)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

the facts are, only Spa and Silverstone have good crowd and large entry lists, sorry but last year event at Algarve again was a failure, maybe for you at the track is was great, but watching the race on Eurosport with all the grandstands empty and a very poor TV coverage, no one can claim that it was a success ! I have a question, why the Superbike at Portimao have a VERY good crowd and not the LMS ?

I would think that both the 24hr and 1000k of Spa would still garner good crowds with a date exchange, while making for a better climate (in all aspects) for the race at Algarve.

Hmm, and what time of year is the SBK race? March! Not that the time of year is the only reason for the popularity difference, but it is not scheduled during the hot high tourist season, as the LMS race is......

L.P.

Subaru_WRX_STi · 2 Jul 2010, 21:41 (Ref:2721299)

we are going off topic, with the SBK at Portimao, but it is usually the season finale (where Ben Spied was crowned World Champion), but its clear that the Superbike promoters are stronger than Mr. Peter staff

HORNDAWG · 2 Jul 2010, 21:48 (Ref:2721307)

No, we are not. I only answered your question as it pertained to the LMS round at Portimão and the time frame in which they are both held, nothing more!

L.P.

AndrewF31 · 2 Jul 2010, 22:25 (Ref:2721318)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

we are going off topic, with the SBK at Portimao, but it is usually the season finale (where Ben Spied was crowned World Champion), but its clear that the Superbike promoters are stronger than Mr. Peter staff

How many times do we need to repeat it: "High season" - Summer = high accommodation fees + high air fares
Add into that the economy with a number of teams even having trouble getting to Budapest. The ILMC is a good idea but it might be coming at the wrong time. The little money people have right now is being squeezed even more so they can fly to US and Asia when they normally wouldn't have done so last season so they end up dropping the races that are quite a bit away from their homes.... Portugal and Hungary.

The market for events is also smaller over here than in central europe. There's 10 million Portuguese plus a few million Spanish. In the summer most people already are in money trouble organizing their regular 2 week trips to the beach for a nice tan.... they aren't exactly thinking about spending 30+ euros on a race.
Compare that to circuits like Silverstone and Spa, that have a higher mass of people in a close radius, and or easily and quickly accessible by car, train, bus, etc, and you have a much easier time garnering fans.

2009 wasn't a brilliant success for Portimão's race with some issues but don't expect a perfect race the first time a championship goes. Or have you already forgotten the blackout in Spa, or the race stoppage at Petit Le Mans last year because of the rain? 2 very experienced tracks, and they also have their problems.

LeMans.pt · 2 Jul 2010, 23:32 (Ref:2721329)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

the facts are, only Spa and Silverstone have good crowd and large entry lists (...)

Facts?

Where are the numbers? Are you speaking of the large number of free tickets Audi and Peugeot gave in 2008 for Silverstone?

Bring Audi and Peugeot to Portimão, like in Spa, and them we will talk again about crowds...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

(...) sorry but last year event at Algarve again was a failure, maybe for you at the track is was great, but watching the race on Eurosport with all the grandstands empty and a very poor TV coverage, no one can claim that it was a success !?

Failure?

Look... probably i can give you a more complete list of thing that are wrong in the Portimão race, than. Most probably, i know allot more flaws in the promotion and organizations than you, but saying that it was a failure because of the crowd and the poor TV coverage, got to be a very bad joke.

TV coverage is an responsibility of the LMEO not from the track promoters. TV coverage is poor in ALL LMS races, not only Portimão.

It was as much failure as Monza or Nurburgring... don't see you complaining about that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

I have a question, why the Superbike at Portimao have a VERY good crowd and not the LMS ?

The answer to that question is given, but ill underline it. SBK race is not at Algarve high season. Do you even imagine how much do you have to spend on a trip and hotel to Algarve in the summer?

Did you ever went to Portimão to watch the SBK? More than half the crowd is spanish...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

How many times do we need to repeat it: "High season" - Summer = high accommodation fees + high air fares

One time is enough if some one really cares to listen or read.... has we can see, some don't!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

The market for events is also smaller over here than in central europe. There's 10 million Portuguese plus a few million Spanish. In the summer most people already are in money trouble organizing their regular 2 week trips to the beach for a nice tan.... they aren't exactly thinking about spending 30+ euros on a race.
Compare that to circuits like Silverstone and Spa, that have a higher mass of people in a close radius, and or easily and quickly accessible by car, train, bus, etc, and you have a much easier time garnering fans.

One of the biggest problems with this new racetrack is that it was build away of the biggest population center. Most of the Portuguese people live in the North and center, and near the sea. Half of the population live around Lisbon and Oporto

WTCC at Boavista Urban Circuit (Oporto) had 50.000 people watching it. Vila Real Urban Circuit, with national races and some classics races (70's endurance cars) had 70.000...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

Or have you already forgotten the blackout in Spa...

Nah... Its Spa... that is a huge success, and not a total lack of professionalism...

gwyllion · 6 Jul 2010, 10:30 (Ref:2722517)

There were rumors that Lamy would do Portimao with Oreca, but that is not the case. Instead Sarrazin will do the 3 next LMS races wit Oreca: http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-4780.html

isynge · 6 Jul 2010, 13:32 (Ref:2722595)

Can see the sense in Sarrazin doing the remaining rounds with Oreca - it gives him a real shot at the LMS driver's title, which would give Peugeot something to salvage out of the season, as well as making sure Oreca has some momentum behind it, which might help Peugeot focus on the ILMC.

gwyllion · 6 Jul 2010, 13:59 (Ref:2722602)

So they are anticipating that McNish/Capello might accidently/unintentially win LMS. With the issue in Paul Richard (and the double points) and the DNF in Spa, Oreca risks losing their almost guaranteed LMS title. They also need to make up points to the Rebellion team.

courageous · 6 Jul 2010, 17:02 (Ref:2722675)

Re Audi going to Hungary thus qualifying for lms championship status - how much would it cost them to take the existing car, drivers, team etc... over to budapest?
The benefits of local interest + taking all 4 proper aco titles (from a media perspective) would surely be worth the couple of quid outlay

JAG · 3 Aug 2010, 22:20 (Ref:2739082)

No Audi so far for Hungary.

39 Entries

5 P1
19 P2
2 GT1
13 GT2

http://www.lemans-series.com/en/s52_...php?circuit=20

AndrewF31 · 8 Aug 2010, 14:14 (Ref:2741361)

And 2 AF Corse drivers from the GT Open will replace Bruni and Melo: Alvaro Barba and Alvaro Parente.

With Ferrari bringing a 3rd again and Felbermayr doing the same, and not havign the BMWs, Hungary will look like a Ferrari-Porsche club cup with the funny looking Spyker and Aston squeaking into the middle of it all.

The 3rd Felbermayr is also interesting with Dumas and Ragginger.

NightStalk3r · 8 Aug 2010, 15:10 (Ref:2741380)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

The 3rd Felbermayr is also interesting with Dumas and Ragginger.

The Ragginger, Ried car that Dumas is joining is the regular #88 car, the 3rd car added for this race is the #86 for the 2 Felbermayrs and Seefried.

HORNDAWG · 18 Aug 2010, 22:54 (Ref:2746863)

Not exactly LMS news, but, I see that Donington Park has reopened! Free piece at DSC

L.P.

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