where to from here

TheGspot · 10 Jan 2004, 10:25 (Ref:833423)

I pose the question to this forum WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE

With the lack of space available in the supercar and koica series, and with both these series being out of reach for a lot of our young up and comers I would have thought that a control v8 series as an entry level might work. With a seat in Konica now 250k plus damage in most instances how do we get our young drivers seen. The FF series does not seem to carry the weight it did 3 or 4 years ago.

Mattracer · 10 Jan 2004, 10:37 (Ref:833431)

Commodore Cup has always been a terrific class. Throw in some Falcons and it might do something for the up and comers. Saloons with the VN/EB models also provides a good scene. Do the Su[percar teams stillwatch the FF scene as closely as they once did?

TheGspot · 10 Jan 2004, 11:05 (Ref:833445)

My question exactly do they?
Mcfadyn has an opportunity I believe what of the other front runners

Thunder1 · 10 Jan 2004, 11:57 (Ref:833464)

Well with the cost of racin & limited places available the future looks like this.drivers will roil up to the track hop in to a console style car & race each other on playstations,xboxs,ect...
the only damage would be RSI.

thunder1

DannyG · 10 Jan 2004, 20:42 (Ref:833782)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mattracer
Commodore Cup has always been a terrific class. Throw in some Falcons and it might do something for the up and comers. Saloons with the VN/EB models also provides a good scene. Do the Su[percar teams stillwatch the FF scene as closely as they once did?

Dunno if the teams watch FF as close as they used too, i would asume if there were a stand out driver in any class they are going to get noticed somewhere along the line.

I agree about the Commodore cup, the only thing lacking now they are updating are the EB's

Average Punter · 10 Jan 2004, 21:35 (Ref:833812)

Quote:

Originally posted by TheGspot
...and with both these series being out of reach for a lot of our young up and comers

And that my good friend is where we are going so very wrong with all this franchise crappola.

Your ability to compete should never be measured by the possession of a magical franchise. Do it properly (like has been said around here for yonks)

Turn up, drive fast, get an entry. Who cares if 50 cars turn up for pre-qualifying and one of the big kahunas miss out? The fastest 32 get a run on Sunday and the rest can please themselves.

If you honestly thought you didn't have a snowflakes hope in hell of qualifying, you wouldn't be there. You'd be peddling your MG, or your Porsche, or your Saloon Car just for F U N. Remember that word? Fun?

TheGspot · 10 Jan 2004, 21:50 (Ref:833817)

I would agree with the limitations put on field sizes if only for the safety reasons and your right if 60 cars turn up let them have a go, ikf Mr skaiffe or Mr ambrose stuff up and dont qualify let them go home with the rest of the non qualifiers, lets see some racing not just franchises moving up the grid cause they got more money this year.

TheGspot · 10 Jan 2004, 21:52 (Ref:833820)

Or if thats to hard what about a 5 car grid at ROF for 5 more starters, let the rest turn up and qualify thursday, have a 20 lapper friday PM or Saturday AM and the top 5 move through to the main event. Speedway do it all the time its called the B Main.

DaveOrama · 10 Jan 2004, 22:17 (Ref:833828)

The logisitcs of having that many cars to compete in one event would be horrendous. Paticularly with support categories taking up room as well. No room for the hot dog stand...

Either way the franchise method is here to stay....I can't see Ford or Holden giving up a good thing no matter what Tony Cochrane (or us) say.

I reckon they could have a promotion / relegation system. At the end of a season, the first couple of teams in Konica go up, and the bottom teams in Supercars go down ( keeps the mobile chicanes out as well). It may upset a few sponsors, but then if they realise the teams is getting relegated, ask them to crash a few times and get on TV.

pete55 · 10 Jan 2004, 22:27 (Ref:833836)

I'm assuming there is still 35 spots on the grid so top 30 go in automatically and if there are more than 35 entrants let them fight for the other 5 positions.

**GTRMagic** · 10 Jan 2004, 22:40 (Ref:833848)

But how many people beyond the current 35 entrants could afford to put a car on the grid in this class? If they could, they would already be there participating....

Commodore Cup may improve now the cars are a later model, but in the end, I am not sure anyone of note rates the drivers in this class without other experience because the cars are so different from everything else.

In some cases L1 and L2 teams are looking at Formula Ford, some looks before that, and into karts, and if they see someone worth looking at, will help them into an FF drive, or at least introduce them to the right people anyway (ala Winterbottom). It doesnt happen as much as it used to, as the purists make way for the pay operators in this class... $140k for a FF season sounds just a trifle excessive to me... There are still some phenomenal talents here without a proper budget or indeed a substantial motorsport future.

PROCAR has the opportunity to do something here, if the driver wants it, to run in the APCC... the price of getting a car (as mentioned in another thread) like a Mazda 3, Holden Astra, Nissan Pulsar, Toyota Corolla etc built and on the grid and around Australia isnt absolutely out of this world... certainly can be done for less than the $140k in FF...

There needs to be some entry level series in current model cars that the drivers can take to prospective sponsors, and even the local car dealer, so they can go racing competitively, in a national series, with television, and prospects for the future.

Subaru are running a showroom class with Imreza RS 2.5s in the ARC, and they hope to sell as many as 25 of them to competitors... 25 cars they would otherwise not have sold, but also people moving out of other classes into that car because it is current shape, it is quick, it will get teev, all the positives that can showcase a talent.

So the PROCAR APCC option is one worth looking at if sedans are your bent. If Open Wheelers are where you want to be, then FF & F3 will get you there, but it is expensive to step up, and more marginal in being able to attract sponsorship to these types of programs. Especially FF without teev coverage, fixed for 2004.

I think the FF category itself has struggle without television, I remember the old days when AA used to be worth reading, they would have 3 or 4 full pages of ads for race cars, and invariably there would be 10 or 15 FF's for sale in there from various people... there used to be loads of new chassis on the grid each year... simpler times perhaps but only 10 to 15 years ago..

pete55 · 10 Jan 2004, 22:47 (Ref:833859)

I would have thought that Procar already have a class. It's called Production Car. This is the class where Dealers and small sponsors should be able to afford to run a car and there is TV exposure so it should be value for money as well.
As for the overflow of V8 Supercars, Carrera Cup is there for them as much as i don't like a one make series. If they have plenty of money there is NC and if not as much there is GTP (in my opinion potentially the best class of all).

TheGspot · 11 Jan 2004, 01:09 (Ref:833956)

The FF class out of all these still must surely give the Drivers of class the ability to shine. Its a shame that no TV is given and maybe they should look to Ross Palmer and procar rather than there current situation. Still I cannot recall a winner of a one make series stepping up to the big time, please correct me if I am wrong.

**GTRMagic** · 11 Jan 2004, 01:15 (Ref:833959)

Warren Luff is the only one... Mirages, BRUtes then to Supercar.... and the jury remains out on whether he can be successful in the main series

TheGspot · 11 Jan 2004, 01:17 (Ref:833960)

The name may have heped here though *wink*

**GTRMagic** · 11 Jan 2004, 01:22 (Ref:833968)

And the sponsorship brought on board too....

TheGspot · 11 Jan 2004, 01:24 (Ref:833969)

Sorry which sponsors will luffey carry with him. I am to dumb for words.

**GTRMagic** · 11 Jan 2004, 01:27 (Ref:833972)

There was a winery on the DJR Konica car (the name escapes me for now) and I am led to believe the Fujitsu Konica thing may have had some help from Luff Squared

TheGspot · 11 Jan 2004, 01:31 (Ref:833975)

ok That now makes sence with what I have heard.

BrettFrancis · 11 Jan 2004, 01:37 (Ref:833985)

Hey guys,

A bit late on the discussion here, but that's never stopped anyone before...

I think you'd be surprised the number of V8 teams and V8 team owners who follow what is going on in most categories, especially FFord.

I've had dealings with a few of the top V8 teams, just through the normal course of business, and I'm always impressed by how much they know about various categories. And not just drivers either. They realise the importance of them for training mechanics and engineers. V8 teams are very much behind categories like FFord and now the Porsche Cup because of the experience they give people who end up working in V8s.

You ask who has been picked up apart from McFadyen lately? Well, there's obviously Winterbottom and Whincup. Why not any of the others? Simple - who wants 2nd best?

TheGspot · 11 Jan 2004, 01:43 (Ref:833988)

Brett,
Winterbottom ran second did he not. Whincup is gone.

**GTRMagic** · 11 Jan 2004, 01:55 (Ref:833992)

Winterbottom was placed at Borlands by people associated with SBR, with a level of Ford backing. It was by no coincidence that SBR enjoys Bosch sponsorshop, the same that appears on the Borland cars. So its not quite the same thing.

I dont see the Sonic drivers of 2003 being picked up anywhere do you?

BrettFrancis · 11 Jan 2004, 02:08 (Ref:833996)

Gspot,

Yes Winterbottom did, but he was also signed up before the end of the season. And with the 2002 title still up for grabs at the last round, I think you could argue that Winterbottom never really ranked as "2nd best".

So Winterbottom got his chance in Konica, Whincup in the main game. Winterbottom shined - he gets to step up. Whincup (for whatever reason) did not - thanks for coming. (I doubt there's anyone in the paddock who saw what Whincup did in a FFord in 02 and then thought that he would have the type of year he did in 03.)

My point was that teams who are serious about drivers are still picking the best ones from categories like FFord, and leaving the rest to find another way.

105octane · 11 Jan 2004, 02:11 (Ref:834000)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Winterbottom was placed at Borlands by people associated with SBR, with a level of Ford backing. It was by no coincidence that SBR enjoys Bosch sponsorshop, the same that appears on the Borland cars. So its not quite the same thing.

I dont see the Sonic drivers of 2003 being picked up anywhere do you?

Not a **** show there GTR

mixxer · 11 Jan 2004, 03:14 (Ref:834021)

Quote:

Originally posted by Average Punter
And that my good friend is where we are going so very wrong with all this franchise crappola.

Your ability to compete should never be measured by the possession of a magical franchise. Do it properly (like has been said around here for yonks)

Turn up, drive fast, get an entry. Who cares if 50 cars turn up for pre-qualifying and one of the big kahunas miss out? The fastest 32 get a run on Sunday and the rest can please themselves.

If you honestly thought you didn't have a snowflakes hope in hell of qualifying, you wouldn't be there. You'd be peddling your MG, or your Porsche, or your Saloon Car just for F U N. Remember that word? Fun?

Good post