Health and Safety Gone MAAAAD!!!!

[flagwaver]

One of the problems that faces motorsport is that most of the actual policing of motorsport events is left to local councils to do. This means that although the MSA may be talking to the Health & Safety executive It is left to local councils to actually enforce the "rules". Here lies the problem each council has:
1. it is own priorities. (these may be driven by politicians)
2. It's own understanding of the law & or guidance notes.
3. Local opinion that may well influence 1 & 2

[mark ch]

and how long before plastic screens to protect marshals and specators from flying debris, we had a specators car damaged at mallory as a result of completing car going though the gravel trap, car windows were smashed/panels dented occupicant quite lucky the windows were up though...

If more circuits used the lawn seed spreaders over dusting wouldn't be an issue, but do they like spending money on marshalling equipment... how old are most sets of flags?

[Hepatic]

tbh money is scarce and it needs to be spent well. OK so flags might not be as bright as they used to be, but unless they are un-usable do they really need replacing?

If feel i have to post this too - the back of the tickets for donington this weekend



It's not as if anyone isn't warned about the dangers....it's unfortunate when anyone / anything is hurt or damaged, but just how close were they to get hit by debris anyway? The last place i'd park my car would be right up at the specator fence, not matter what circuit or how crap the weather was.

[Hepatic]

ps. sorry about the size of that picture!

[Chris Hobson]

Folks,

Let's kill this rumour now!

I spoke to the MSA, who in turn spoke to MSV.

They have no idea where the idea of cement being banned for H & S reasons has come from. MSV are no longer using cement as they are rationalising the way they do things to be consisent across the four circuits. They have standardised on using the product they have been using at Oulton Park for some 4 years which is a very fine lime material. It works really well, lots of surface area so a small amount soaks up an awlful lot of fluid. They also have other commercially available materials designed for dealing with spills to use as and when the situation demands it.

We must be aware that Health & Safety will become more of a concern to us as our move to a more litigeous society grows, however, I sincerley hope we can keep it to a sensible level.

I would suggest you check with your observer as to what the procedure is to be used for oil dressing when you repeort on post. I know it varies from one circuit to another and will vary with weather conditions. (if you want to see real oil dresing go to a Santa Pod drag race event - when we get an oil down there they use the nappies, then dress with a powdered derivative of "Oasis" - as used by flower arrangers, then suck up the goo with road sweepers, then wash this off and scrape the top with a modified ice rink scraper, then dry the tarmac with a jet engine, then apply the "sticky juice" to restore traction and finally apply methanol to any tiny drops left!

Seriously, keep up the good work, but in all things "BE CAREFUL OUT THERE"

Chris Hobson
National Chairman BMMC

[stevebrown]

[QUOTE=Chris Hobson]Folks,

Let's kill this rumour now!

Well I am sorry if I started a rumour! If I thought it was a rumour I would not have posted it on here. I was told this by a reliable person but thought it was a joke until the circuit staff came out and dressed a bad spill with detergent. Snetterton even have a sprayer that will be used for dressing spillages once it is ready. So if MSV circuits are standardising the product used why are Snetterton using detergent and not the lime?

I felt aggrieved at the time that I would have nothing to do with dealing with detergent (We were asked to brush it in). I felt this was a safety issue that was worth discussing but now it seems I am being accused by the Chairman of the BMMC of spreading rumours. I feel I might as well give it up.

Steve B

[Steve Gibson]

What you started on this thread may turn out to be incorrect and even only a rumour but you said what you said because you care.
For some one to come back with "Lets kill this Rumour" is a bit strong and is likley to offend, why the chairman of the BMMC could not of been a little less abrasive and just said that he spoke to the MSA ect makes me wonder if he could make it as a "Tabloid Journalist" as they have a habit of overstating things to grab the headlines.
I don't think you started a rumour you started a discussion that has brought out a lot of valid points about the way to do and not to do the dressing of oil!
Regards
Steve

[Woolley]

Personally, I think this is a very good discussion. It's also allowed us to do what we've always complained we can't. We've got a line of communication all the way up to the club Chairman who's taken it up with the circuits on our behalf, and come back with the answer we want. OK, 'rumour' is probably the wrong word, 'misunderstanding' might be better. The fact is, we now know that what was communicated to Steve B was incorrect and we needn't worry. I call that a result.

Well done Steve for bringing it into the open, and well done Chris for dealing with the issue and responding promptly. Let's not fall out over semantics, I thought this was exactly the sort of thing we wanted to acheive?

[Chris Hobson]

Oh Dear, perhaps my choice of word was politically incorrect - it was not meant to slight the originator or anyone who has contributed to the discussion. If I upset anyone I am sorry.

I more than welcome the open discussion - I have been marshalling for over 35 years now and have taken on the role of National Chairman because of my passion for the sport and the because I want to improve things for all marshals, so I need to promote open and honest discussion, especially if someone thinks an action or decision may endanger others.

I am a Yorkshireman - not a tabloid journalist - but as with most people from that part of the country I often use direct, to the point, language.

Keep up the discussions and if anyone wants to criticise me personally, then feel free to give me a call or e-mail me - my details are on the BMMC website

Chris Hobson
National Chairman BMMC

[JLD]

I've been following this thread since it first started, and it has raised some valid points. One point that comes across is that different groups of people have different priorities. Circuit owners want to look after and preserve the track surface. Very understandable and using detergents and power washers may be the best for this. Marshals, however, need to keep the racing as close to the timetable as we possibly can. What we need is a 'quick fix' to allow racing to continue (and if possible a visible guide to the affected area) hence the use of cement/plaster/whatever powder. Above all, we all to be able to allow racing to continue safely (or as safely as racing can).

This thread has certainly prompted much discussion, long may threads like this continue to do so.

[stevebrown]

Chris
I have sent you a PM. Thank you

Steve B

[DougK]

Doesn't the whole of this discussion point to one thing????

The lack of communication from the circuit owners, managers and staff to the organising club and then to the marshals and officials.

This is one of the main issues that as marshals we have , poor communications from above and then as a result poor communication back up the line. We do not get kept up to date with information or what is happening. Often the first time we know of changes is when something happens for the first time.

Whilst training days are valuable , every circuit operates differently - the use of breakdown vechicles, cement (or other methods of clearing up spills), marshal rotation, expectations etc is different at each venue and therefore knowledge will not be gained unless we do a training session at each circuit or ask the same questions time and time again!

One thing that probably would help would be a full briefing at the the start at of each meeting for ALL officials where EVERYONE (including circuit staff) attend. Maybe if we all communicate better we would be more effective and efficient as a team. Ok it will get boring for the regulars but it allows information to be passed direct from the horses mouth rather than through rumors and half truths.

From what I read above , for instance on the breakdowns and whether or not to assist, much of this is down to personal interpretations and personal concerns - and often down to the way a particular crew , Observer or I/O operates. We are all different and so are our methods of dealing with things.

[mitzi dude]

at my track we use a crushed bark substance that when you apply it to the oil spill it soaks it up almost stait away. awesome stuff . But at this stage the name of it escapes me.