Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23 Feb 2003, 10:04 (Ref:514626)   #1
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
No HANS ,No Race, says Max

From Planet F1:
Max Mosley has issued a warning to the drivers moaning about the HANS system. Get on with it.
Formula 1 drivers have been warned that if they want to compete in the Australian Grand Prix on March 9th, they will have to wear the Head And Neck safety system.


Thats the end of that debate then,Max has spoken.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Feb 2003, 11:38 (Ref:514679)   #2
Jordi
Veteran
 
Jordi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Catalonia
Vilafranca del Penedés, CATALONIA
Posts: 5,276
Jordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Jacques had this to say on the last day of testing at Valencia: "I have also been working with the HANS device today, which is a little bit difficult but we’ve got to get on with using it!"

So, he's actually trying to get used to it... Can't be criticised anymore...
Jordi is offline  
__________________
"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport."
-Jim Clark
Quote
Old 23 Feb 2003, 12:20 (Ref:514715)   #3
Maxmil
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
United States
New England, USA
Posts: 778
Maxmil should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If he goes back to CART, he will probably have to use it. Might as well start now.
Maxmil is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Feb 2003, 12:25 (Ref:514718)   #4
Jordi
Veteran
 
Jordi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Catalonia
Vilafranca del Penedés, CATALONIA
Posts: 5,276
Jordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Let's see after the season.
Jordi is offline  
__________________
"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport."
-Jim Clark
Quote
Old 23 Feb 2003, 15:08 (Ref:514812)   #5
Lee Janotta
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,936
Lee Janotta should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hmm... I was kinda hoping the drivers would sit for this one, see how the FIA manages to spin that.

I'm sick like that.
Lee Janotta is offline  
__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!"
-Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
Quote
Old 23 Feb 2003, 16:03 (Ref:514852)   #6
Thorstone
Veteran
 
Thorstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Iceland
Posts: 570
Thorstone should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What drivers have been moaning? just two isn't? Villeneuve and Heidfeld(Moanfeld)
Thorstone is offline  
__________________
In the 60's people took acid to make the world
weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
Quote
Old 23 Feb 2003, 16:54 (Ref:514906)   #7
Jay
Veteran
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
United Nations
Canada
Posts: 6,038
Jay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It's been pretty well proven that it saves lives in America.
Jay is offline  
__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2003, 02:13 (Ref:515583)   #8
LindaC
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location:
Essex
Posts: 79
LindaC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by Thorstone
What drivers have been moaning? just two isn't? Villeneuve and Heidfeld(Moanfeld)
Actually none of them find it comfortable. They are trying to make it work for them because they have to. DC says there is a modification he thinks could help but it has to be agreed. He also says that last July Charlie Whiting told the drivers they wouldn't have to wear it if they weren't comfortable with it. Mosley has overruled that. Michael Schumacher said he'd had to make adjustments to be able to wear it and that it shouldn't be compulsory. Some drivers' insurance companies are so unsure about it they want the FIA to give them a letter indemnifying them against any injuries caused by it. There have been no accidents in the last few years that it would have made any difference to.

Someone in the FIA, or connected to the FIA, has an agenda here. Sid Watkins doesn't have to drive wearing it.The drivers should have the choice whether to wear it or not. It's their lives on the line.
LindaC is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2003, 02:22 (Ref:515590)   #9
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
CART drivers wear HANS on the road circuits don't they?.
The F1 drivers just need to toughen up a bit.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2003, 03:00 (Ref:515612)   #10
Lee Janotta
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,936
Lee Janotta should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yeah, and they're not too happy about it either, but CART's drivers have been under a lot of pressure from fans and management alike not to make any waves if they want to stay in CART's good graces.

They also don't take the same G-forces at most tracks where they wear it that F1do, with the abundance of street courses. There are much more severe Gs in a lap of Suzuka or Silverstone than there are in a lop of Denver or Vancouver.

There is certainly an agenda... But I think it's just that the HANS has been touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and the sanctioning bodies have bought the pitch hook, line and sinker.

Last edited by Lee Janotta; 24 Feb 2003 at 03:04.
Lee Janotta is offline  
__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!"
-Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2003, 13:54 (Ref:516004)   #11
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 44,228
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally posted by Thorstone
What drivers have been moaning? just two isn't? Villeneuve and Heidfeld(Moanfeld)
Montoya and Michael (at least) have also expressed concern.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Brum brum
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2003, 17:02 (Ref:516170)   #12
Smokey 6 litre
Veteran
 
Smokey 6 litre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
England
The Total Perspective Vortex
Posts: 1,707
Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
shouldn't it be up to the drivers,
if they find it uncomfortable then the shouldn't wear it,
i wouldn't,
just think, concentrating hard around a fast corner but all the time there is a small uncomfortable pain going round and round your head, enough to make anyone loosed concentration i say.
Smokey 6 litre is offline  
__________________
"If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now"
Douglas Adams. 1952-2001
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2003, 19:05 (Ref:516350)   #13
Logrence
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Wales
Posts: 2,299
Logrence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The forces and speeds in F1 are much greater than those in CART and IRL, it makes something like that much more uncomfortable - although the american series have more of a constant strain on the drivers, the HANS device is more use in an accident against the wall on the ovals - freak accidents that reach 100g - accidents that aren't going to happen in F1.
Logrence is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Feb 2003, 19:37 (Ref:516402)   #14
Dutton
Veteran
 
Dutton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
United Nations
Not Much North of Montana
Posts: 6,760
Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!
HANS as a system should be supported and promoted, in the sense that it should be available to those who want it. However, I believe it also should be something which a driver has control over. There is surely a greater risk to safety having a driver wearing something like that while racing if they don't find it comfortable - the possibility of distraction etc - than to leave them to make a decision about something that only really affects them.
Dutton is offline  
__________________
"The world is my country, and science is my religion."
- Christian Huygens: 17th century Dutch astronomer.
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2003, 02:01 (Ref:516771)   #15
bcobbus
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Sacramento California
Posts: 412
bcobbus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There were the same complaints about HANS here in the states when several racing series made it mandetory. However there seems to be no longer any complaints as the drivers have gotten used to HANS.

As to the speeds that F1 races at, yes that may be an issue. However having your head more stable under high G's in an accident is worth it. Dr. Sid Watkins does not lend his full support to just any odd devise, it has to be for real. I have seen many accidents here in the states where HANS most certainly helped the drivers walk away from accidents that before would have caused injuries!!!!

Oh, and as much as I hate to say it, because I hate the IRL, they do run faster then F1. It is not uncommon for them to average laps at about 210mph, 225mph at Indy and other tracks.
bcobbus is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2003, 16:17 (Ref:517289)   #16
Dutton
Veteran
 
Dutton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
United Nations
Not Much North of Montana
Posts: 6,760
Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!Dutton has a real shot at the podium!
bcobbus, bear in mind that an F1 car would be rather fast on an oval, too.
Dutton is offline  
__________________
"The world is my country, and science is my religion."
- Christian Huygens: 17th century Dutch astronomer.
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2003, 11:11 (Ref:518156)   #17
bradenc
Racer
 
bradenc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
United Kingdom
cambridgeshire
Posts: 357
bradenc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wonder how many drivers in the early days considered helmets uncomfortable and restrictive?
bradenc is offline  
__________________
"Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That
way, when you criticise them you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
Quote
Old 26 Feb 2003, 20:29 (Ref:518648)   #18
Lee Janotta
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,936
Lee Janotta should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by bcobbus
Oh, and as much as I hate to say it, because I hate the IRL, they do run faster then F1. It is not uncommon for them to average laps at about 210mph, 225mph at Indy and other tracks.
Yeah, and at Fontana, CART's even faster!

Much of the Gs on a superspeedway, though, are not lateral to the driver, due to the banking. Rather than feeling pull only to the side, as an F1 driver does at Monza, a driver on an oval feels pulled both to the side and downwards.

This creates it's own problems, draining blood from the driver's skull, as CART drivers discovered in the aborted race weekend at Texas Motor Speedway two years ago.
Lee Janotta is offline  
__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!"
-Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
Quote
Old 27 Feb 2003, 03:53 (Ref:518890)   #19
Jay
Veteran
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
United Nations
Canada
Posts: 6,038
Jay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Cart and IRL guys have lateral GForces that far exceed anything in F1 on the superspeedways, lap after lap. Of course, it's always in the same direction which helps the drivers necks.

Speeds aside, I think bradenc makes a very good point. Helmets aren't at all comfortable either... As I recall the HANS device was designed to prevent basal skull fractures caused by the drivers head whipping violently about the cockpit in a head on type collision. Arguably it has saved lives in Cart already, but then it's difficult to say. They'll get used to it.
Jay is offline  
__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes
Quote
Old 27 Feb 2003, 04:09 (Ref:518900)   #20
Lee Janotta
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,936
Lee Janotta should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yeah, but I can't ever remember seeing film of a driver in a prewar Grand Prix without some manner of brain bucket.

Seat belts didn't make sense until the cars got better at staying in one piece and not bursting into flame (magnesium chassis with fuel tanks shaped around the cockpit, yipes!!!)

I just think the HANS has been pushed too quickly and aggressively in this safety-obsessed period in motorsport.
Lee Janotta is offline  
__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!"
-Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
Quote
Old 27 Feb 2003, 05:09 (Ref:518923)   #21
Jay
Veteran
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
United Nations
Canada
Posts: 6,038
Jay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They didn't start wearing hard helmets regularily until the 50s. What may look like helmets in the historic footage was merely a cap (sometimes rigid, sometimes cloth!) to keep their hair down. Even then, real helmets (full faced) that would actually do anything in a crash weren't used until the 70s.

HANS has been used in Cart for 3 years now, it has faced test after test both on the track and in the lab, and the majority of doctors in motorsport (at least the respected ones such as Sid Watkins, Steve Olvey and Terry Trammel) all are strong backers of the device. I think that's testing enough.

Last edited by Jay; 27 Feb 2003 at 05:17.
Jay is offline  
__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes
Quote
Old 27 Feb 2003, 10:25 (Ref:519126)   #22
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
FIA announced about two years ago HANS would be coming in. The drivers have had plenty of time to test it and get comfortable with it rather than moaning a couple of weeks before the first race.
Kicking-back is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Feb 2003, 10:55 (Ref:519158)   #23
Logrence
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Wales
Posts: 2,299
Logrence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay
Sid Watkins, Steve Olvey and Terry Trammel) all are strong backers of the device. I think that's testing enough.
But they don't have to wear it.
Logrence is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Feb 2003, 10:11 (Ref:520259)   #24
Asp
Race Official
Veteran
 
Asp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
England
Cumbria, UK
Posts: 4,700
Asp has a real shot at the championship!Asp has a real shot at the championship!Asp has a real shot at the championship!Asp has a real shot at the championship!Asp has a real shot at the championship!Asp has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally posted by Lee Janotta
I just think the HANS has been pushed too quickly and aggressively in this safety-obsessed period in motorsport.
Far from it. The FIA have sat on the issue of HANS from day 1, waiting until they were certain of the benefits and that any possible consequences were at best negligable. They've spent a great deal of time monitoring advances and only now are they absolutely happy with how it looks.
If it had been pushed too quickly it would have become mandatory years ago!
Asp is offline  
__________________
DDMC Rescue Crew, Post Chief & Flag Marshal
Quote
Old 28 Feb 2003, 10:49 (Ref:520283)   #25
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Yeah, but I can't ever remember seeing film of a driver in a prewar Grand Prix without some manner of brain bucket
Up until the early 50's most drivers just wore a cloth or leather flying helmet.The helmets of the 50's were only made out of something like paper-mache.The first full face was worn in 1970.Seat belts were only fitted in the mid-60,s and fire proof overalls were around the late '60s too.
Attached Thumbnails
nl-helm.jpg  
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Reply

Tags
hans

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who hates the HANS now? paul-collins Formula One 3 7 Apr 2003 13:37
HANS - Would you wear it? AndyF Racers Forum 8 24 Jul 2002 03:07
Look ma, no HANS BootsOntheSide NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 9 2 Nov 2001 16:00
Hans economy_waffle Formula One 10 15 Jun 2001 17:27


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.