My kind of champion!

[slicktoast]

Yes, Shuey showed them all how it's done. Who else could get a drive through and serve it almost ten laps after the infraction? Not DC, he was in 5 laps later; not Massa, he was in 3 laps later; not RS, he was in 4 laps later. He showed them how to tick off 9 quick clear laps and make the penalty just about meaningless. And that great pass for the lead on Kimi, Michael saw those yellows waving but he also saw that he wasn't going to hit McNish's Toyota as he made the pass. Any lesser driver wouldn't dare passing under the yellow, afraid they might plow straight into the stopped Toyota. And what car control, he went just enough off line to make sure Kimi didn't get any bright ideas. Fantastic, he is my kind of champion. I want to see triple the amount of this kind of driving when he wins his 6th title!

[Jordi]

Hmmm, I don't know who's your favourite driver....

[Hamness]

Are you trying to get Axtel twinned with Schuey's home town?
Yes, we all have to agree that the driver is not so bad, but the man himself , underneath it all, is not so good.

[R]

I think it's called sarcasm...

[ttc]

As usual, the anti-MS fans seems able to see what nobody else can see...

It doesn't matter to them that MS was the first to be penalize for the white line infraction and the stewards have to confer if it was to be penalized, and that DC's case was because a precedent (MS) was established for such infraction that the decision was easier to make.

And of course, they will expect all drivers to ground to a halt and wait for cars that went off the racing surface to return before carrying on with the race.

Sheesh!

[R]

What was to confer? Wasn't the precedent set when Ralf was penalized at the Nurburgring last year?

[f1manoz]

Who's your favourite driver again? I couldn't see through all the bull**** that was written!

[Jukebox]

hmm..there seems to be foul smell in here..pass the air freshner will ya dear!

[Legend]

Originally posted by slicktoast
Yes, Shuey showed them all how it's done. Who else could get a drive through and serve it almost ten laps after the infraction? Not DC, he was in 5 laps later; not Massa, he was in 3 laps later; not RS, he was in 4 laps later. He showed them how to tick off 9 quick clear laps and make the penalty just about meaningless. And that great pass for the lead on Kimi, Michael saw those yellows waving but he also saw that he wasn't going to hit McNish's Toyota as he made the pass. Any lesser driver wouldn't dare passing under the yellow, afraid they might plow straight into the stopped Toyota. And what car control, he went just enough off line to make sure Kimi didn't get any bright ideas. Fantastic, he is my kind of champion. I want to see triple the amount of this kind of driving when he wins his 6th title!

Michael is not a driver, he is thee Driver. I have an example here:
1997 before the last grand prix where Schumi tried to take Jacques Villeneuve out, our hero Jacques Villeneuve tried the same at Suzuka. At the time our hero had more points and taking Schumi out was enough to seal the championship, before the last race. Jacque was not even supposed to drive at Suzuka as he was banned for the race. Meanwhile an appeal from Williams delayed the FIA decision. Jacque participated in the race knowing if he scored any points, they would be taken away from him with 99.99% certainty. But I guess there was more to it, as I later found out. Jacque went to pit stop well timed by Williams chess tacticians to put him just out to take Schumacher out. It was a close call! When Schumacher appeared just before the pit lane exit, Jacque was there out of the pit. He swung his Williams immediately from the pit-exit which was on the right-hand to the left. Schumacher had not the time to observe the situation and make a decision to counter this ugly deed, which he (Schumi) reinvented the next grand prix him self. The only difference was though Michael was approaching with full speed ahead and the collision might have had a deadly out come or at least severe injuries. It was pure reflection by the genius him self! He immediately shifted direction in full speed to the right side and our hero (Jacque) missed him with centimetres. All this scenario took some few seconds and from where Schumacher so the William until he made his move it was close to some 1/100 of a second or so. This was the unparalleled reflection! No one can pull such a thing off, I mean no one!!!
As our hero expected, his points where taken from him ( I guess he scored some 2 points or so) because of the race-ban and Schumacher won the race of course.
The next race we all know what happened. But had Schumacher been a slower-minded driver letting Jacque take him out on that occasion, maybe FIA would have acted in the favour of Schumacher making him champion, but never mind, that one stroke of prodigy is worth 100 titles. If you don’t believe me find the tape of the Suzuka grand prix 1997 and watch for your selves!

Cheers mate

[freud]

Legend, once again you are getting carried away with emotions and forgetting facts in the process. Before the race itself, FIA made it clear to Frank Williams that if there is an incident between Jacques and 'any' other car, Jacques would be banned from the final race at Jerez. That was in the result of the Appeal of the Williams team when Jacques was allowed to race but not for points.

[Legend]

Originally posted by freud
Legend, once again you are getting carried away with emotions and forgetting facts in the process. Before the race itself, FIA made it clear to Frank Williams that if there is an incident between Jacques and 'any' other car, Jacques would be banned from the final race at Jerez. That was in the result of the Appeal of the Williams team when Jacques was allowed to race but not for points.

Yeah right! If Michael knew he would miss all his points, as it was the case that year, would he do what he did? A big fat no!!! So how could Jacque know something Schumi did not know? I remember that there were no rule for the last-race-crash yet, until what Schumi did in Jarez they made it a new rule. So there could be not such a rule of a penalty until Schumacher tried to take Jacque out. And wolla we had a new rule!
As we remember Senna and Prost driving each other out on last race, and nothing actually happened then. At the time of Suzuka grand prix there was not such a rule, of banning for a “tactical” crash, for championship or for a single grand prix, even if they (FIA) had given some hints of what was to come as you have replied. But please do not get carried away! Maybe I am wrong, please go and watch the Suzuka grand prix where JV is exiting the pit. Perhaps I have missed it totally. But do your self a favour and watch it. Maybe you can do me a favour also by telling me I was wrong after you so nothing wrong in what JV did. So I can go and find myself a new F1 hero!!! Before Suzuka Michael had 68 points and Jacque had 77. That crash would really have done the damage as the last race Jacque had to score a single point to finish Michael off.
I tell you one thing: Maybe I am blind by the heart but my eyes are clear and my memory is perfectly intact as if I can replay the scenario as it was yesterday.

Cheers any way Freud
We have all the right to think, what we will think, about what ever we like to think about. Democracy rules.

[Legend]

Originally posted by freud
That was in the result of the Appeal of the Williams team when Jacques was allowed to race but not for points.

Ohhhhhh I see now, so he raced at a banned grand prix not for the points, just to maintain his good form for the next race. Now I see, nice one!!! And I think I am smart!!!

[f1manoz]

[Contents removed.

Keep it clean, and please refrain from attacking the poster.

R.]

[Jukebox]

now..now...my Heidfeld supporter best friend, remember the rule of not attacking the poster

[freud]

Legend, I kind of echo with Manoz here.

Jacques raced at Suzuka to somehow help Heinz Herald win the race thus taking points away from Michael, which wasnt a bad strategy at all. That was the only way to stop Michael from winning and hence coming out as points leader from the race. It didnt work in the end but credit must be given to Jacques for putting up a brave face after an FIA decision which was nothing less than a 'farce'... an attempt to rob a driver of his title. I had immense sympathy for Jacques at the particular moment of time (though I must admit that I was biased by being the biggest Gilles V. fan on this planet and I desperately wanted a Villeneuve to win the f1 title). Still most people would agree that the FIA decision was rather harsh and unwarranted.

I did put in my Tape and reviewed the particular incident you mention. Jacques is trying to get into his racing line and TGF brakes slightly early and allows him to do that. Thats about it.

[Valve Bounce]

Let's keep it friendly, guys. Shoot only when under extreme provocation, and not until you see the whites of their eyes.

Valve

[ttc]

Originally posted by R
What was to confer? Wasn't the precedent set when Ralf was penalized at the Nurburgring last year?

IIRC, MS was the first to be penalized for the white line infringement in France THIS year.

So, there was at the very least a "need" to "confer", whether the extent of infringement (touching of line, half of the line, on the line, OVER the line etc) to call for a penalty.

Once MS's case was decided, and rightly so, subsequent similar infringements are then no-brainers, once you see something similiar or worse, automatically a penalty call.

You will notice such is the case in soccer and almost every sports that requires refereeing. The very first call for foul is the most difficult one and subsequent calls are generally easier once the "line" has been drawn by the first call.

[Legend]

If you mean I have attack the poster I apologize fro my bad deed. I just do not see where the attack is, if it is me at all. I have send my posts to Freud if I have been insulting I apologize, Freud forgive me mate!!!

[R]

Legend, I have sent you a PM.

ttc, doesn't the "white line rule" apply to all circuits? In any case, isn't this discussed in the pre race briefing? Especially at Magny-Cours, where the white line is so extremely long and at the outside of a curve? TGF's case was "clearer" than DC's too, IIRC.

[Legend]

Originally posted by freud

I did put in my Tape and reviewed the particular incident you mention. Jacques is trying to get into his racing line and TGF brakes slightly early and allows him to do that. Thats about it.

I have some points to state in chronological order now that you have seen "it". (I hope you have seen the pit stop I was talking about)
1) JV exit the pit from the right hand
2) JV is not keeping his line and going from right to left
3) JV is not on full speed as he make this sudden change of direction
4) Schumacher is approaching where he is on the middle part of the track
5) Schumacher is on full speed
And now if the following point is actually what happened I will rest my case:
6) Schumacher dives to the right side of JV, keeping his momentum and passing JV ( and I stress this) not on the left hand where it is natural, but on the right hand.
I have seen F1 almost the last ten years. I have never seen a driver pass a pit-exiter on the “wrong side”, it was my first time!!!!!
I have nothing more to say really about this case, because if someone tries to defend something so vigorously, which is so obviously wrong, it would be impossible to make him change his mind.
I am a great Schumi fan but as I recognize his deeds, I am also aware of the misdeeds done by him. I was really disappointed when he rammed JV in Jarez. I screamed like a mad when Austria-shamble was unfolding just before the finishing line, and I through everything in my living room around.
I think it is ok to be a fan of anybody, no matter who, as long as you realize their defects as well as their qualities. I do not believe in the romantic picture of the unstained hero anymore.
Perhaps before when chivalry was the top agenda, and money had a whole less to the say, participants were more clean on the stages of top sport. But now, human is striped of sense of pride, nobility and fairness to the point of agony. Just look at their outfit, they look like walking commercial tags. It is so sad!!!

[Jack racer]

And lets not forget some one had all there points taken off them who else has ever had that done???
(PS don't go and find someone else and bum me out please)

[ttc]

Originally posted by R
ttc, doesn't the "white line rule" apply to all circuits? In any case, isn't this discussed in the pre race briefing? Especially at Magny-Cours, where the white line is so extremely long and at the outside of a curve? TGF's case was "clearer" than DC's too, IIRC. [/B]

I think you missed my point.

The white line rule applies to all circuits.

It's when there's an infringement, the very first of its kind on the day, the very first penalty usually takes the longest time as the refereeing authority (in this case the circuit stewards) essentially mark their "line" where no one else can cross after that.

Nevertheless, I believe there was no advantage gained in this case unlike the last penalty-win contraversy where Michael served his penalty upon the last lap, winning in the pitlane.

[Jordi]

Legend, Legend, Legend... if what Jacques did was intentional to put Schumacher out as you say, what about Schumacher putting Frentzen out in Canada 1998?
That fits in you description... maybe you've changed the names...

[Legend]

Originally posted by Jordi
Legend, Legend, Legend... if what Jacques did was intentional to put Schumacher out as you say, what about Schumacher putting Frentzen out in Canada 1998?
That fits in you description... maybe you've changed the names...

Jordi, Jordi, Jordi..... I remember what happened at Canadian grand prix 1998. But remember HHF was not running for FWC, but Schumacher was running for it in 1997. When that episode occurred Schumi being there doing something wrong was not premeditated to take HHF out as he was not a threat for MS, while I was shaking in my boots knowing JV’s pit-stop, so well timed at it was, had one propose for the man racing a dead grand prix, knowing there would be no points for him. It was crystal-clear for me what Williams was trying to do, not to mention dear Jacque. He missed it closely. Very, very close!!!
Please before typing another reply, to defend Jacque on a race which you certainly do not remember that well, go and find the tape and watch it for your self. Than you can defend a case which is much clear to you. I know it is a hard thing to imagine someone as holy as JV making such a move as it is reserved for the devil him self, Schumacher.
My main message was not to make JV a villain although he was of course, on that occasion. Actually I was trying to glorify Michael and sometimes a story needs a villain to stress the magnitude of a hero. As at the next race Jacque was the hero and Schumacher was the villain.

I post this smiley just because I love it. The best smiley of all time!!!

[Jordi]

Well, if as you say (don't have the tape, don't need a race where Jacques was 5th and DQed), Jacques did that intentionally, why Schumacher did not give an example on how to win a championship at Jerez, being not the first time to aggravate it?