2003 F1 - changes

[Bodysnatcher]

Ok, a real marshalling related topic - nothing like griping about F1 over the winter to keep our blood pressure up.

Thinking about the proposed changes yesterday (during the rivetting 6 car race @ the Hatch) I began to think "Do I really want to do another F1 event?"

Now, I know many of the older lags won't touch it with a bargepole, but I've learned to accept the that goes with an F1 weekend and I reckon I've enjoyed the 15 or so that I've done.

Anyway, the point is, from next year, will the changes make you more or less likely to think about doing F1.
Me, I probably will, just to see what it'll be like. But then I got to some serious thinking (ouch), and
1) the flag marshals are going to be seriously underutilised
and
2) addition of a 2 hour test session means that some of the support programme will have to be dropped - does this mean Euro GPs that are left will only have F3000 and Porkies left?

discuss
seriously(ish)

[pinki]

Well Ali you know my views on GP and I think it's safe to say I've done my last one.

One lap qualifying always sounds exciting but remember what it was like with the BTCC, yep, bloody boring.

Two hour test session - will anyone notice any difference between this and the actual GP, I doubt it.

F1 needs a total rethink - they have got to decide whether it's a drivers championship or a constructors championship, the two just don't work together anymore.

Nuff Sed

[Bodysnatcher]

Pinki, one lap qualifying - the worst possible thing for a marshal to cover as far as I'm concerned. May as well be at a hillclimb/sprint - (no disrespect to those that love that sort of motorsport - it just is'nt my favourite flavour)

One car at a time means it's very hard to get enthusiastic about the proceedings on the track. Everyone gets demotivated - Observers don't need to observe quite so closely, flaggies - just what will they have to do?, IOs/course etc - concentration levels will be seriously down.
Another of my pet hates is marshals with personal radios listening to the commentry and drifting off... This entertainment style of F1 qualifying will only make it more prevelant as we all tune in to see if Barrichello's been allowed to blow off the beloved German.

[Steve Tarrant]

I may be showing my age here, even if I am only 42, but when I went to Brands for the GP in 1980, there were NINE different races over the course of the three days. Now it seems Uncle Bernie's Circus rules, and no-one is allowed to run on his hallowed tarmac for fear that his lovely surface might be dirtied!

What's next? Marshals having to wear booty covers so that they don't trample dirt onto the track?

It amazes me that as time has passed and the number of races have got less, so the prices have gone up and the number of people willing to pay it has increased. Whatever Bernie's influence over people is, it certainly works for him and his bank balance.

Or has the bubble burst and now people arte starting to see through this, with the TV audience reducing significantly.

Just my tuppence worth


Steve

[Stephen Green]

I heard that Alec Spooner has only received a fraction of the availability forms for next years GP than he normally expects at this time of year. Maybe a few more are voting with their feet?

Me, I'll be volunteering as normal. Maybe it's because it took me 8 years before my name was accepted for the GP and I still get a thrill from hearing the V10's in full song. The constant hanging around and the over the top officialdom does make my hackles rise though. I suppose it's only fair to give it a try and to see what the 'spectacle' turns out to be like in reality?

[Stoowert]

I really think that F1 has shot it's bolt. Tinkering with qualifying and the points will do nothing for the racing. Indeed, the points adjustments will just make the race more boring. Trim the wings and make designers concentrate more on mechanical grip.For too long the F1 circus can't make up it's mind weather it's a sport or a shop window of the motor manufacturers lastest products. "Well, Mr Chairman, this is what we spend or 6 million on THIS week". And as for single car qualifying, you may get a couple of cars in false postions, but remember Micheal at Spa a few years back, starting on 16th place? Was he up to 3rd after 1 lap?
I think Bernie muat be worried, otherwise why would he be sniffing around CART?:confused:

[Cynic]

I did my first (and probably only) GP last year, and the changes are going to do absolutely nothing for the racing. One-shot qualifying is a waste of time as it is going to have little or no influence on race performances, and the two-hour practice (if it goes ahead) will probably be little more than a Minardi rent-a-drive session. And given Alex Yoongs performances this year I can't see that setting the world alight. Personally I'd like to see the end oftraction control and semi-automatic gearboxes, but what really puzzles me is the opposition to success ballast. Teams quite happily blow thousands of pounds trying to go .00001 seconds quicker, but think they can't handle another few kg of weight?
As for lack of applications, I can't really see Bernie crying over a lack of marshals. I get the feeling he regards us as a necessary evil anyway. People keep talking about having a marshals strike at a high profile meeting, perhaps the GP would be an ideal example?

[Stephen Green]

That was muted at this years GP but never materialised.

[Bodysnatcher]

MOOTED - put forward as a proposal
MUTED - a bit quieter

but it looks good either way

[Stephen Green]

Ok, English lesson over (and learnt) but you get my drift

[Stoowert]

Which is more than F1 cars do nowadays!

[Bodysnatcher]

hee hee hee, English lesson from Scotsman..

back to topic now

strikes - eff off (if that's allowed by a wee )
If you don't want to do it, register your vote by not volunteering
Not by turning up and then taking your ball home, the people you're most likely to inconvenience are your fellow marshals who truly intend to do the event and get enjoyment out of it in whatever way they can

[Stephen Green]

Actually that's a very valid point.

[Cynic]

Posted by Bodysnatcher:

"strikes - eff off (if that's allowed by a wee )
If you don't want to do it, register your vote by not volunteering
Not by turning up and then taking your ball home, the people you're most likely to inconvenience are your fellow marshals who truly intend to do the event and get enjoyment out of it in whatever way they can"

Temper, temper...

Anyway, personally I don't condone the idea of a marshals strike as I think it would backfire on us. I was just making a suggestion as that's what I thought these forums were for....

Incidentally do you actually know anyone who marshals the GP because they enjoy it, because I don't. Most people I speak to do it because "well, it's the Grand Prix innit?", or because it's a good excuse for a 3-day p***-up. Surely turning up with that sort of attitude is worse than not turning up at all?

[Bodysnatcher]

did I mention anybody's name cynic? (nope, I did'nt use the quote function) - I was giving my view on strikes - not you

attack the post not the poster
attack the post not the poster
attack the post not the poster

As for enjoyment, well, yes some of us can approach the F1 circus with a positive mental attitude. It can be helpful to start off with the prospect of enjoying the weekend. Me, I love the sight and sound of F1 and the hope of seeing a classic, as I suspect something like Donington 93 was. (I was there, see), and I know others think the same.

[Stephen Green]

Actually I disagree. The Grand Prix is by and large a social occasion when we get the opportunity to meet other marshals from all over the UK and Europe, many of whom we talk to regularly but don't meet very often. The marshalling aspect of the weekend is done as professionally as any other meeting at which we officiate, that is within the bounds of the rules imposed upon us by the FIA (this applies particularly to flag marshals).

It is also one of the few times in a year when you may get the chance to meet some of the great drivers and to hear the magnificent sound of an F1 engine in full song.

Alasdair's comments were not made in anger (to my knowledge) and I agree with him when he says if you don't want the hassle don't volunteer. It DOES put a strain on other marshals if you say you will turn up and then don't. In that respect it's no different from any other meeting you volunteer for. Manners dictate you should turn up if you have volunteered.

[Stephen Green]

Sorry Al you posted before I managed to hit the 'send' button, so the above post was directed to Cynic.

[Cynic]

Stephen

You seem to have taken my comments out of context here.

Firstly I never suggested people should volunteer and not turn up. I've been in the situation of working meetings that are undermanned because of that, and it annoys me as much as the next person. My point was that if people feel the need to protest to the powers that be, be it in the form of a strike or other action, doing it at the circuit would be more noticeable than staying at home.

Secondly, I have no problem with people treating the GP as a social occasion, but when that's their sole reason for attending and the race is just something that has to be done in the process, surely you have to question their motivation. Having said that, If Bernie sorts things out maybe that won't be a problem

Lastly, I'm slightly insulted that you feel I was suggesting that people aren't going to approach the weekend professionally. Given the dangers of marshalling in general,people should approach every race that they attend in a professional manner, whether they're ultimately there for the racing or not.

[Stephen Green]

Sriking is not something I condone as I think it makes us all look bad and unprofessional.

I think the GP always has been and always will be a social occasion, but in saying that the marshalling is taken extremely seriously. Of course the standards should be the same for F1 as they are for all forms of racing! I'm not sure I meant to say you didn't think they would do so, if I did then I apologise.

[Woolley]

I don't think going because it is a social occasion is the wrong attitude at all, as long as you are correct in your attitude whent he cars are actually on track. It's the reason I've always done it .- great to meet people from all over the country (or the world even). The actual racing has always been dire and getting worse by the year, the beurocracy is infuriating, and remember, at a GP the gaps between races are longer than you normally spend on post at a clubbie. I didn't go last year because I guessed (correctly) that the camping was likely to be dire, and I shan't come back until I see that it's changed.

As for the changes, they still haven't clocked that the problem is that the cars cannot RACE, so even if you have two cars close together there's no suspense because it will take a monumental cock-up by the guy in front for the chaser to get past. A standard rear wing designed to create low downforce and slipstream is what's needed.

[Stoowert]

One "Classic" since 1993! That works out at 1 every 153 races! You can only go to the GP for the social side!
A strike is just a non-starter. To strike is "To remove one's labour" in theory, as we are unpaid, how can we withdraw something we haven't got! All we do is screw up some other blokes weekend.
Come to Long Beach next April. There may only be 18 cars on the grid, but they DO overtake! Plus the support races are awesome. (Mores the pity, as it cuts down the "Shopping" time) The social side is there as well, the SCCA puts on a free beer night at a local brew pub on the Thursday evening, plus a bar-B-Q at the track Saturday (Not that I go to that, too busy socialising with my transatlantic chums!) Stiil, the GP is high-tech and a great spectacle, and nothing sounds like a F1 V10!

[Stephen Green]

Sounds attractive Stewart, got any details for a lowly Observer?

[Stoowert]

Yes! The race to be is Long Beach. I think I've included you in Cartrockers. That's got the gen. Anyone else interested, drop me a line. My ambition is to get no-one turning up to the GP 'cos they've all had too much fun Stateside! Now, how about Petit Le Mans or Sebring?

[Woolley]

You would start organising this the year I've got no holiday 'cause I'm saving it for four weeks down under. Make sure you do it again the following year!

[2CV Racer]

Originally posted by Stoowert
Now, how about Petit Le Mans or Sebring?

A gang of 4 of us from Ireland did Petit LeMans this year and were made most welcome and had a great 4 days racing.

Highly recommended. (Though watch out for the heat stroke!!)