Vettel (DEU) vs Webber (AUS) part 3

[Mr V]

I think that Red Bull will keep Mark on, for another season at least.

They need someone who can bring home the points and as Mark is (currently) second in the Championship he's proved that he can do that, to be honest, Ricciardo won't do as good a job at this stage in his career! but they also know that he's (Mark) not at Seb's level so he won't be a threat, ideal compromise for all parties imo.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I think that Red Bull will keep Mark on, for another season at least.

They need someone who can bring home the points and as Mark is (currently) second in the Championship he's proved that he can do that, to be honest, Ricciardo won't do as good a job at this stage in his career! but they also know that he's (Mark) not at Seb's level so he won't be a threat, ideal compromise for all parties imo.

Yep, that's what I think.

[parkingjedi]

Mark having a little cry about his slower car made think of this 'Ronnie Johns/Chopper Read' skit from a while back. So what would "Chopper Read" say to Mark? NSFW without headphones (language)

Chopper Read wants Australia to Harden the "F" up (youtube vid)

.....this is Mark Webber, he drives a fancy shiny race car but he thinks his little friend has a faster one, Chopper thinks you need to ..vroom vroom - harden the "f' up.

[fomoco]

so another season of V vs M.

Or is Mark the testing and soritng driver whilst the hone the skills of a young Daniel

[Oran Park Forever]

Webber said it was a 'no brainer' to stay put. I totally agree with him & I'm sure RB do too.
Let's face it, he's the perfect No:2.......in fact you could say he's probably one of the best No:2s F1 has seen in the last ten years at least. If he was a tennis player, he'd be Tim Henman!


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[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by fomoco

so another season of V vs M.

Or is Mark the testing and soritng driver whilst the hone the skills of a young Daniel

Red Bull Drinks seem to have a lot of balls in the air, with possibly 4 pilots to drive their Scuderia Toro Rosso cars next season

Or are Red Bull going to buy even more teams to fit them in? Picking up Force India would be great if the Red Bull Racing operation could nick the Mercedes engine for their Newey-mobiles

There is precedent for such a thing, Mr Briatore and co purchased Ligier (remember them?) for their Renault engine supply some years ago... to put into Mr Schumacher's Benetton...

Stranger things have happened

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Red Bull Drinks seem to have a lot of balls in the air, with possibly 4 pilots to drive their Scuderia Toro Rosso cars next season

Or are Red Bull going to buy even more teams to fit them in? Picking up Force India would be great if the Red Bull Racing operation could nick the Mercedes engine for their Newey-mobiles

There is precedent for such a thing, Mr Briatore and co purchased Ligier (remember them?) for their Renault engine supply some years ago... to put into Mr Schumacher's Benetton...

Stranger things have happened

Yes I remeber some of that, also doesnt Bernie own a Team Name/brand as well?

Rb might just spead it wings, along with Mark and Christians team.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Oran Park Forever

If he was a tennis player, he'd be Tim Henman!


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Tim Henman was never good enough to get near number 2 status

I wonder what it is actually like to be in Mark's position at the moment? All weekend he's appeared to have the upper hand, i was convinced that he'd get pole yesterday, but then Seb just pop's up and nick's it off him seemingly easily.

[Carsandmotorracing]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Tim Henman was never good enough to get near number 2 status

I wonder what it is actually like to be in Mark's position at the moment? All weekend he's appeared to have the upper hand, i was convinced that he'd get pole yesterday, but then Seb just pop's up and nick's it off him seemingly easily.

Red Bull probably ordered him to get all of his ideas on how to improve his times and transfer them to Seb's

[Oran Park Forever]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Tim Henman was never good enough to get near number 2 status

I wonder what it is actually like to be in Mark's position at the moment? All weekend he's appeared to have the upper hand, i was convinced that he'd get pole yesterday, but then Seb just pop's up and nick's it off him seemingly easily.

Ok how about Andy Murray then?

Webber (almost) always wins the "Friday World Championship", he's very good at it, but in the big scheme of things it means jack s--t! As for his countless fastest laps in the GPs proper, this also means diddly.
Case in point: Ayrton Senna - 65 poles, 41 wins,(only) 19 fastest laps from 161 starts.
Maybe if the fastest lap was worth one point then yeah it'd be a bigger deal, but then there'd be others beating him to it!.


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[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Oran Park Forever

Ok how about Andy Murray then?

Webber (almost) always wins the "Friday World Championship", he's very good at it, but in the big scheme of things it means jack s--t!

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Indeed. The point i'm making is that after all 3 free practices, Mark must look at the times and feel pretty confident about the possibility of a pole, then seemingly out of nowhere, Seb pop's up with the fastest time. Mark must wonder where the that come's from!

[Oran Park Forever]

Originally Posted by Mr V

then seemingly out of nowhere, Seb pop's up with the fastest time. Mark must wonder where the that come's from!

The difference between someone who's got 'it' & someone who hasn't. The ones who don't have 'it' will always be left wondering.

But Webber seemed happy after the race so he seems to have finally accepted the above scenario.


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[mac]

Originally Posted by Oran Park Forever

But Webber seemed happy after the race so he seems to have finally accepted the above scenario.

Quite the contrary, I think... Mark's smile seemed to me to be a case of, "I know I had the pace to run with Seb today - if I could have got the thing off the line, things would have been very interesting between us."

And he's right... His pace was strong all race - quite often faster than his team mate... His problem was that he had to come back from significantly behind the eight ball.

I think Mark's seemingly more positive attitude in recent times is largely down to the fact that he feels he is pretty much back on terms with Seb on pace... He just needs the cards to fall his way for a change - like they have done for Seb all year...

[Adam43]

Really?

[wnut]

Webber's problem is that he seems to hash every GP start, so he always starts behind the eight ball!

There has to be a reason his car goes into anti-stall every start.

RBR must have looked at it, does anyone know what Webber is doing to mess up his starts?

[Trev Campbell]

Agree'd, Webber starts have been consistently bad for nearly 2 years. The only blinder I can remeber him getting in a Red Bull was Britan last year.

Having said that I think he had the pace to beat Vettel in Belgium but stuffed it due to dropping to 9th on the first lap. If he had been 3rd I think he could have won it.

But Kudo's have to go to him for the gutsiest pass I have seen in F1 for a while around the outside of Eau Rouge !!!!! Fantastic.

[Oran Park Forever]

Originally Posted by mac

Quite the contrary, I think... Mark's smile seemed to me to be a case of, "I know I had the pace to run with Seb today - if I could have got the thing off the line, things would have been very interesting between us."

And he's right... His pace was strong all race - quite often faster than his team mate... His problem was that he had to come back from significantly behind the eight ball.

I think Mark's seemingly more positive attitude in recent times is largely down to the fact that he feels he is pretty much back on terms with Seb on pace... He just needs the cards to fall his way for a change - like they have done for Seb all year...

All I can say to that is I admire your optimism!

Good luck with all that......

[mac]

Originally Posted by wnut

Webber's problem is that he seems to hash every GP start, so he always starts behind the eight ball!

There has to be a reason his car goes into anti-stall every start.

RBR must have looked at it, does anyone know what Webber is doing to mess up his starts?

Suggestion on the Youtube footage of his pass on Alonso...

"I can see now why he had such a ****ty start - his balls weighed him down."

Lol.

[rocketracer]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

But Kudo's have to go to him for the gutsiest pass I have seen in F1 for a while around the outside of Eau Rouge !!!!! Fantastic.

holy moses, i still cant believe he did that!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by mac

Suggestion on the Youtube footage of his pass on Alonso...

"I can see now why he had such a ****ty start - his balls weighed him down."

Lol.

Brilliant!

[Mr V]

Brilliant overtake from Mark yesterday, that will be up there with the Mika/Michael overtake from 2000. Great overtake from Seb around the outside of Nico also.

Would Mark have given Seb a run for his money realisticlly yesterday had he got off the line ok? I'm not so sure. Seb seemed to have the measure of both Mark and Fernando during the race yesterday, but it's more fun to say what if isn't it

[mac]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Would Mark have given Seb a run for his money realisticlly yesterday had he got off the line ok? I'm not so sure. Seb seemed to have the measure of both Mark and Fernando during the race yesterday, but it's more fun to say what if isn't it

I think that, given his pace in free practice, qualifying (until he burned up his tyres), and the race, it would be foolish to suggest he couldn't have.

Don't forget, after the safety car Vettel was in front of him with a pit stop in his pocket - and Mark finished just 3 seconds back... Not saying he would have won, but I definitely think he would have run with him...

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by mac

Don't forget, after the safety car Vettel was in front of him with a pit stop in his pocket - and Mark finished just 3 seconds back... Not saying he would have won, but I definitely think he would have run with him...

But after the safety car, they only stopped 1 more time each. It's not like Mark had to pit a second time, not under the safety car, then each stopping a third time.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Brilliant overtake from Mark yesterday, that will be up there with the Mika/Michael overtake from 2000. Great overtake from Seb around the outside of Nico also.

Would Mark have given Seb a run for his money realisticlly yesterday had he got off the line ok? I'm not so sure. Seb seemed to have the measure of both Mark and Fernando during the race yesterday, but it's more fun to say what if isn't it

Theres not a great deal between all the drivers in winning (chance) cars and a few that are not but Seb just keeps getting the job done, doesnt he? I think he has just that "little" extra and if seriously challenged will find it.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Mr V

But after the safety car, they only stopped 1 more time each. It's not like Mark had to pit a second time, not under the safety car, then each stopping a third time.

I understand that, but by missing his stop under the safety car due to the radio problem, he was forced to run a longer (and slower) second stint.

I think Mark himself said (more or less) that it was a shame that he missed his pit and didn't get to race with Seb... It was because Seb got new tyres under the safety car, and Mark had to make his used hard tyres last a very long time - which, it has to be said, he did very well.