ALMS Round 6: Road America

[MoMedic9019]

Pits should stay open all the time...I've never understood the reason behind it.

[Purist]

It reduces the time that you could have stragglers circulating the track at significant speed trying to catch up with the Safety Car queue. This is also why they have THREE Safety Cars at Le Mans, so you DON'T have guys whipping around the course for five minutes AFTER the caution has actually come out.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Risi are having a really down year. I wonder if that should have been half-expected given they took a year off.
Chris

Poor Risi, the last three years or so he has kind of reminded me of the Lil Abner character Joe Btfsplk who walks around with the little rain cloud over his head. The poor guy has had no luck at all and you know he is a very good team owner/manager based on his previous success in the series. While other teams get BOP and other concessions to make them more competitive, he rarely (if ever) has and he's had a few reckless drivers who have caused his cars great harm making it difficult for his cars to compete in the next race. In any event, I would think his luck will change and his team will once again be a top flight competitor in the near future.

DK

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Purist

It reduces the time that you could have stragglers circulating the track at significant speed trying to catch up with the Safety Car queue. This is also why they have THREE Safety Cars at Le Mans, so you DON'T have guys whipping around the course for five minutes AFTER the caution has actually come out.

But as soon as pit stops cycle, they run at full chat to catch back up...

[Purist]

It gives the marshals time in that initial phase of clean-up, and the guys coming out of the pits, a handful of minutes later, are going to be relatively clumped together. In other words, it's predictable and reliable, and the marshals have a better idea of what to expect when. Also, as previously stated, this system provides for large gaps of time when there are NO cars going past, which aids in both clean-up and marshal safety.

Frankly, the circumstances under which this topic ALWAYS comes up tell me that this is by-and-large a convenience issue for people. Therefore, I'm quite happy to just dismiss the complaints and calls for a fundamental shift in how these situations are handled. I think it is possible that ways can be found to clean up and streamline the re-organization of the field before returning to green, but apart from that, just leave it alone.

Yes, I do think there are more situations than they are taking advantage of now to just have a local yellow, but I also know that in the States, this is kind of to be expected.

BTW, in Europe, and elsewhere, the policy is generally to leave stranded vehicles, unless they are judged to be in a precarious position. Stalled/stranded vehicles aren't restarted or assisted (unless you're Michael Schumacher at the Nurburgring).

[EricS]

People complain about it EVERY race that there is a FCY.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Purist

BTW, in Europe, and elsewhere, the policy is generally to leave stranded vehicles, unless they are judged to be in a precarious position. Stalled/stranded vehicles aren't restarted or assisted (unless you're Michael Schumacher at the Nurburgring).

Peter Barron just crapped himself.

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

Originally Posted by Purist

It gives the marshals time in that initial phase of clean-up, and the guys coming out of the pits, a handful of minutes later, are going to be relatively clumped together. In other words, it's predictable and reliable, and the marshals have a better idea of what to expect when. Also, as previously stated, this system provides for large gaps of time when there are NO cars going past, which aids in both clean-up and marshal safety.

Surely slowing the cars down to 37mph is more predictable and reliable, and a better way to give the marshals time in the initial phase, instead of having people run around at almost race speed to catch the SC? I mean how big of a gap do you normally need to work in - how often are cars dragged across the track etc.? Doesn't seem to be problems with code 60 in Dubai with 70+ cars on a 1.2km smaller track than Road America.

[Maelochs]

The only reason not to use FCY, Code 60, and local yellows as the situations demands, is the potential for confusion. Otherwise, all there have their legitimate uses.

[Beetle]

Full course yellows are absolutely necessary. Would you rather have the minor inconvenience of the race being temporary put on hold or a dead marshal?

I hate conversations like this - just enjoy the race when it's happening, people!!!







BTW, it was a very good race.

[Maelochs]

I agree with Beetle--under no circumstances should we examine what works--Without Killing People--in other series and then consider ways to improve anything, anywhere, ever.

We should all be scared by the specter of dead track workers, and not even support racing.

[FalkenALMS]

If the pits were just left open all the time during an ALMS race, it would be pure chaos when FCY hits and everyone comes into the pits at the same time.1) Leaving the pits closed for one lap allows the field to get in the right order. The pass arounds help bring the classes back together and bring more of the fans the competition they pay to see, and helps teams who may be stuck behind a slower class car.

2) Then when the pits are open class by class, it allows everyone to get their pit stops in without over crowding and most importantly keeping the crew safe. Keep in mind during a race weekend, all our pit equipment is there with the pit equipment of whatever other series we're running with. Also, even if they're not in our class, we have to work together with the teams pitted on both sides of us to make sure we don't crowd each other during pit stops. It's normal to see drivers jump over pit wall from another team's pit wall because there's just no space in their own pit.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by FalkenALMS

2) Then when the pits are open class by class, it allows everyone to get their pit stops in without over crowding and most importantly keeping the crew safe. Keep in mind during a race weekend, all our pit equipment is there with the pit equipment of whatever other series we're running with. Also, even if they're not in our class, we have to work together with the teams pitted on both sides of us to make sure we don't crowd each other during pit stops. It's normal to see drivers jump over pit wall from another team's pit wall because there's just no space in their own pit.

Just for the record Team Falken is the best group to be pitted next to. Hell, I'd prefer it to a prototype... you guys did beat us at Road America during the race to get rollbars changed though, after it dried out. Next time!

-mike

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by FalkenALMS

If the pits were just left open all the time during an ALMS race, it would be pure chaos when FCY hits and everyone comes into the pits at the same time.1) Leaving the pits closed for one lap allows the field to get in the right order. The pass arounds help bring the classes back together and bring more of the fans the competition they pay to see, and helps teams who may be stuck behind a slower class car.

2) Then when the pits are open class by class, it allows everyone to get their pit stops in without over crowding and most importantly keeping the crew safe. Keep in mind during a race weekend, all our pit equipment is there with the pit equipment of whatever other series we're running with. Also, even if they're not in our class, we have to work together with the teams pitted on both sides of us to make sure we don't crowd each other during pit stops. It's normal to see drivers jump over pit wall from another team's pit wall because there's just no space in their own pit.

How would it be chaos under Code 60?

[dxk1]

I can think of three basic viewpoints on the issue of FCY vs code 60 or something similar: the viewers perspective, the drivers perspective and the actual track workers perspective. Most of us express the perspective of the viewer, which is that we would prefer something that least detracts from the race. I believe we have gotten a little of the drivers perspective from Mike and John. I would love to hear from a track worker's perspective since theirs is likely the most relevant as it is their health and well-being that is most at stake here. If there is someone on this forum that is a corner worker or track safety worker, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic.

DK

[TRspitfirefan]

Originally Posted by dxk1

I can think of three basic viewpoints on the issue of FCY vs code 60 or something similar: the viewers perspective, the drivers perspective and the actual track workers perspective. Most of us express the perspective of the viewer, which is that we would prefer something that least detracts from the race. I believe we have gotten a little of the drivers perspective from Mike and John. I would love to hear from a track worker's perspective since theirs is likely the most relevant as it is their health and well-being that is most at stake here. If there is someone on this forum that is a corner worker or track safety worker, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic.

DK

As a spectator, I feel that anything that makes the racing safer for the drivers, crews and corner workers is well worth a few laps less of green flag racing.
Which detracts more from the race, a few laps of FCY, or a serious injury to one of the participants?

[EricS]

Of course safety is number 1 priority. But in typical ALMS/GA safety car periods, most of the time spent in FCY is waiting for everyone to finish taking turns pitting and doing the wave bys. The stranded car or debris on the track is cleaned up pretty quickly most of the time.

I agree with Fogelhound, if you have code 60 and keep pits open, i don't think it would be THAT much chaos in the pits. The cars all spread throughout the track and pitting at different times, versus pitting at once when everyone is behind a safety car.

[Mechanic Z]

Both Kelly and Mike have stated that the system works pretty well. I'm pretty sure that both of them know more than any of the rest of us about the caution systems.
I'll listen to them!

I can take a few more minutes under yellow rather than jeopardize the safety of the teams, drivers and corner workers. They're the ones who are in danger, us fans are only inconvenienced.

Human life is special, and should not be taken lightly.

[FalkenALMS]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Just for the record Team Falken is the best group to be pitted next to. Hell, I'd prefer it to a prototype... you guys did beat us at Road America during the race to get rollbars changed though, after it dried out. Next time!
-mike

Agreed! You guys were great pit neighbors.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

Both Kelly and Mike have stated that the system works pretty well. I'm pretty sure that both of them know more than any of the rest of us about the caution systems.
I'll listen to them!

I can take a few more minutes under yellow rather than jeopardize the safety of the teams, drivers and corner workers. They're the ones who are in danger, us fans are only inconvenienced.

Human life is special, and should not be taken lightly.

EricS (among others) was pointing out that the most time consuming part of the FYC orchestrated by IMSA & Grand-Am (who btw share the same race director as of this year and who will continue to be USCR´s next year) are the wave- and pass-by´s; these are not started before the incident itself is cleared, rescue workers et all should be off the track by then, the safety aspect which is quoted by some of you is not there anymore, it´s a logistic procedure from that moment on. One that takes way too much time to my liking... I´m under the impression that the wave- & pass-by´s take up at least 80% of the time run under caution.

P.S. maybe we should split off this discussion from the race topic as it´s getting more general.

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

Originally Posted by dxk1

I would love to hear from a track worker's perspective since theirs is likely the most relevant as it is their health and well-being that is most at stake here. If there is someone on this forum that is a corner worker or track safety worker, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic.

Maybe ask in the marshal's forum? Meanwhile here's some more code 60 info:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130634
https://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=11324
An example from Dubai: #1 for ~6 mins

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

Both Kelly and Mike have stated that the system works pretty well. I'm pretty sure that both of them know more than any of the rest of us about the caution systems.
I'll listen to them!

Far be it for me to presume their knowledge of caution systems, but Mike stated in this thread that he hasn't experienced code 60, and Falken haven't run at Dubai. I obviously know they are knowledgeable regards IMSA cautions, that's why we are discussing other systems.

And yes this maybe is now a bit off-topic

[Adam43]

The caution discussion has been split off from this thread as requested. It can be found here:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138846

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Just for the record Team Falken is the best group to be pitted next to. Hell, I'd prefer it to a prototype... you guys did beat us at Road America during the race to get rollbars changed though, after it dried out. Next time!

-mike

Just curious, what is meant by getting the roll bars changed?
Is it actually changing the roll bars or just adjusting them somehow? And is it something that both teams happened to need done at the same time, or is it something that has to be done every time the track conditions change from wet to dry?
I'm a bit ignorant regarding racing suspension systems, I'm afraid!

[MoMedic9019]

Wet to dry change...they are usually set to full soft, or somewhere near that to allow for maximum compliance in the front end...when it dries out you'd have horrid under steer..so they need to be stiffened back up.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

Just curious, what is meant by getting the roll bars changed?

Once we realized the race was going to be wet, we changed the settings on both the front and rear anti-roll bars. For our GTC cars, each bar is adjustable on each side... so you have 1-7 "notches" of adjustment on each corner (4). We changed all those notches at each corner so that we could go from our normal (or close to it) setup to the wet setup while only adjusting 2 sides (cuts the adjustment time in half).

Soon after changing to slick tires we realized our "soft" rain setup really wasn't working with the slick tires (first time we had tried it). During a caution period we planned to do fuel and spend the extra time to adjust the anti-roll bars. Being a good pit neighbor, we noticed the Falken guys were coming in at the same time (it's obvious when both crews stand up on the wall looking serious).. we mentioned to them we were going to be a little longer than normal since we were adjusting anti-roll bars (because we were directly in front of them, there was a chance we'd block them and delay their exit). They said they were doing the same thing.. and we were coming into the pits in the order of our pit boxes.. which meant the crew basically got a race of their own-- to see who could adjust their cars anti-roll bars quicker.

We lost that one, but I'm not 100% sure the RSR has the same adjustment as the Cup.... :-)

-mike