Disgraceful-again!

davebreen · 19 Aug 2001, 12:54 (Ref:132417)

Just saw Trulli pull into the pits. He was slowing up all the drivers behind him and will probably end up behind all them( Hakkinen, Heidfeld, Montoya and Kimi). This just isnt good enough, the performance in qualifying and the performance in the race have to be closer than it has been all season. There is a big problem at Jordan, whether it is race strategy, driver performance, poor tires or whatever, they have to do better in the races. Honda arent going to hang around forever!

p.s. If Trulli manages to finish well, I take it all back!

davebreen · 19 Aug 2001, 13:19 (Ref:132425)

Looks like I wont have to take it back!

**bella** · 19 Aug 2001, 14:16 (Ref:132444)

it'd be interesting to know exactly what causes the team to vary in performance so much from qualifying to the race. the 197 wasn't good in qualifying because they spent so long doing race runs in testing, maybe it's a case of too much qualifying development.

Minardi fan · 19 Aug 2001, 22:10 (Ref:132739)

Something definitely needs sorting - Jordan's race pace is so down on their qualifying - Trulli struggled yet again.

His retirement today surely sealed a move to Renault. Fisi will be in Jordan overalls next season, mark my words.

Raven · 19 Aug 2001, 23:18 (Ref:132800)

Trulli is the problem, he just cruises in the races. Same story when he was with Prost, Shinji Nakano usually beat him when they both finished. And getting whupped by SN is saying somthing.

mac · 21 Aug 2001, 06:19 (Ref:133531)

Quote:

Originally posted by Raven
Trulli is the problem, he just cruises in the races. Same story when he was with Prost, Shinji Nakano usually beat him when they both finished. And getting whupped by SN is saying somthing.

Was he cruising when he comfortably led the Austrian GP IN A PROST!? Or when he finished second at Nurburgring in '99 in the wet with heavy attention from behind? Or when he passed two cars into THE LAST CORNER AT MAGNY-COURS last year? Or when he passed about four cars at Brazil last year in the first few laps?

I must have missed that whole Nakano thing, because my f1 memories of him are of him spinning at nauseum and being miles behind everyone.

The Jordan (no matter who is driving it) has struggled all year for race pace. I don't know if it's the Honda or the car. It is very frustrating. I want to see a four way battle up the front.

Dino IV · 21 Aug 2001, 06:53 (Ref:133547)

Well said, Mac. I second that.
A driver which has been that fast, doing that well in that car, to such an extent that he totally outclassed his teammate - generally regarded among the better drivers outthere - in such a way that he indirectly forced him into getting fired halfway the season, something which hasn't happened at a (sub)topteam since Jos Verstappen at Benetton 1994 - really says it all. His performance throughout the year has been absolutely flawless, with the exception of his Hock-spin which is a very very rare mistake for him. His driving style is IMO the most beautiful, absolutely the tidiest and so close to perfection he's entitled to a better drive than the Jordan instead of a worst one at Benetton. I've still some hopes for a vacant McLaren seat ... c'mon Ron.

Raven · 21 Aug 2001, 13:52 (Ref:133690)

Mac,
Lets not make such a big thing about leading Austria in a Prost, they were good in 97 and Panis may have won a couple of races earlier in the year with better luck (Argentina, Spain). Some tracks heavily favoured Bridgestone, which Prost were using and Austria was one of them. Barrichello (also on B’stone) had a good early run in 2nd for stewart before JV got passed him and went on to reel in Trulli.

Re Nakano: Check out forix classifications for the 1997 British & Hungarian GPs. They only did a few races together, but there is really no excuse for JT. Shinji was the firm #2 in the team and not really a quick driver by any stretch.

For me Trulli does cruise around well within the cars capabilities in races more often than not. Eddie Jordan said in the ITV studio before the race that he expected JT to be a challenge, but again he was not. I don't think it will be long until Alesi starts showing him the way under race trim.

Run Free · 21 Aug 2001, 14:26 (Ref:133702)

Quote:

Originally posted by Raven
Mac,
Lets not make such a big thing about leading Austria in a Prost, they were good in 97 and Panis may have won a couple of races earlier in the year with better luck (Argentina, Spain). Some tracks heavily favoured Bridgestone, which Prost were using and Austria was one of them. Barrichello (also on B’stone) had a good early run in 2nd for stewart before JV got passed him and went on to reel in Trulli.

Raven, I agree with you on most of your points, and expecially on this one. Bridgestone had really a big advantage over Good Year on some tracks, and that's also the reason for DH almost won the Hungarian GP IN AN ARROWS! Panis was doing wonderfully before his crash in Canada and was very high placed in the points standing.

Although I'm Italian, I never liked Trulli, both as a driver and as a man: it's true that he often tends to cruise in the races, and I bet he's the driver the most involved in accidents at the start, although I haven't statistics to prove it. He also uses some dirty tricks on track, he's very arrogant, and is the "I win, the car loose" type of driver, which I can't suffer.

I've almost never seen him doing something very special, like Fisichella for example. Maybe mixing the two of them we Italians can have a good driver, at least.

That said, I really hope he'll join McLaren: then he will not have excuses to have been a "promise" for all those years

Dino IV, IMO HHF's sacking has nothing to do with Trulli's performance, if all what I've read around is true....

Dino IV · 21 Aug 2001, 15:16 (Ref:133713)

Quote:

Originally posted by Run Free
I've almost never seen him doing something very special, like Fisichella for example. Maybe mixing the two of them we Italians can have a good driver, at least.

This kind of belittling talks from a countryman on two of the finest drivers in F1 is probably stemming from something else (regional friction?) than observation so I won't bother to mix anything ...

Dino IV · 21 Aug 2001, 15:20 (Ref:133717)

On the HHF sacking part though is something to say. IMO If HHF wouldn't have had a stronger opponent within the team, but instead a weaker secondant, he would have had a whole lot problems less both with himself, his own motivation, trust and determination, as well as with Eddie being harsh on his frustrations.

Run Free · 21 Aug 2001, 17:46 (Ref:133773)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dino IV

This kind of belittling talks from a countryman on two of the finest drivers in F1 is probably stemming from something else (regional friction?) than observation so I won't bother to mix anything ...

Dino IV, I assure you that I've no problems at all with the wonderful Abruzzo (Trulli's region), and instead I have (very little) problems with Roma (Fisichella's city). But I prefer Fisico: no regional friction at all, then, but simply opinions. I think that Fisichella is a lot more talented than Trulli, I've seen him doing very special things sometimes: the problems is he lacks continuity and maybe motivation. Trulli seems more determined to succeed, but I've said why I don't like him on another post. The point is: two good drivers, not so young, but not championship material IMO.

Regarding the HHF matter, what you said is true: he has problems whith competitive team mates, as showed also at Williams with Jacques; but I don't think that this confidence problems are the real reason behind his sacking.

mac · 22 Aug 2001, 09:39 (Ref:134144)

From everything I've seen, Jarno appears to be a nice fellow. Or at least one of the nicer guys in f1. As for the dirty tricks he uses, I've never seen them.

Run Free, could your problems with JT stem from the fact that Jarno did not grow up in Italy and does not behave like a normal Italian. He is quieter, more calm and less excitable than most Italians.

There's only one thing to do. Put Trulli in a McLaren, Ferrari or Williams, in a car we know can perform, with a teammate who is good, and see how he goes.

**Stephen Green** · 22 Aug 2001, 13:05 (Ref:134227)

I still believe that one Mr Sato will be in the Jordan seat next year.

Honda protege, sponsored by Honda, powered by Honda, Japanese, running away with the British F3 title. What more can I say to convince you all.

Watch this space!

Dino IV · 22 Aug 2001, 16:53 (Ref:134318)

Run Free > Okay nevermind. Fisichella and Trulli are driverwise highly resemblant imo. They both set F1 benchmarks for the smoothest and tidiest driving style (something Hill, DC and RB were praised for in the past) and although Fisico may be giving a bit more of a hotshoe impression outside the car than Trulli, they're quite evenly matched inside. Fisico may be a tad more 'pushy', but Trulli is clearly the more mature and coolest of the two. As for championmaterial or not, I think you're giving them way too little credit. The fact that they hadn't had a car even close of being a championwinner doesn't exclude them from being able to win WDC's. Both men would have taken the WDC in this and last year's Ferrari easily. But as said, both here above and by mac, as a championwinner I think Trulli has the better papers.

Stephen > "What can we say". Uh, maybe that one Mr. Antonio Pizzonia is in F1's pipeline too and well up and above Mr. Sato when he grabbed the 2000 title?
2002 wishes: Let Pizzonia take over Fisico's place at Renault. Pass Fisico to Jordan, together with Sato, and let Trulli have the McLaren. Alesi takes over Rubinho's seat without RB's 'priviliges' ...

**Stephen Green** · 22 Aug 2001, 19:13 (Ref:134417)

Ok I eat my words. Fiscico has been signed by Jordan for three years. It was announced just as I left the office tonight!

Run Free · 22 Aug 2001, 19:51 (Ref:134444)

Quote:

Originally posted by mac

There's only one thing to do. Put Trulli in a McLaren, Ferrari or Williams, in a car we know can perform, with a teammate who is good, and see how he goes.

Well, most probably crashing in other drivers, mainly on the first lap!

Seriously, mac and others here, I have no problems with Trulli: I simply don't like him AS A DRIVER.

Trulli isn't more mature and coler than Fisichella. He has a record of crashes on the first lap, and lots of crashes at every stage of the races. More, he often drives around like a taxidriver. I really don't understand why he's so overrated! More, he's 27, and has 5 years of experience in f1. If you compare his "maturity" with that of some rookies....tsè !
Fisichella has been really more impressive sometimes, although he has had too discontinuity: and for sure is a really unlucky guy.

I think that none of the two deserves a top seat: but Trulli at Mclaren could be nice, more points and wins available...for the others

mac · 23 Aug 2001, 01:04 (Ref:134614)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dino IV
Stephen > "What can we say". Uh, maybe that one Mr. Antonio Pizzonia is in F1's pipeline too and well up and above Mr. Sato when he grabbed the 2000 title?
2002 wishes: Let Pizzonia take over Fisico's place at Renault. Pass Fisico to Jordan, together with Sato, and let Trulli have the McLaren. Alesi takes over Rubinho's seat without RB's 'priviliges' ...

Sounds good. But Pizzonia will not be at Renault in the near future. When looking for a test driver for this year, they evaluated Pizzonia. But they decided Webber was better, and he got the gig.

Dino IV · 23 Aug 2001, 08:02 (Ref:134701)

Stephen > Woa, that's good and bad news. Good because Fisico will be able to up his game more at the front next year. Bad because Jordan future is still uncertain, but his impatience is understandable as he has been lured around for way too many years in off-cars.

Run Free > Strange observations. Maybe your telly needs replacement?

Mac > That's not really because Pizzonia's performance wasn't good enough, but because he told Flavio to shove his lifetime choking contract somewhere where the sun don't shine. Something which Trulli and Fisico should have done as well when Flavio tried to get their hands on them, but however where lured into speedy F1 entries and didn't. With known results ...

**Stephen Green** · 23 Aug 2001, 10:25 (Ref:134771)

The other part of the deal has been announced now. Trulli goes to renault Sport.

Dino IV · 23 Aug 2001, 12:30 (Ref:134814)

Yuk, that's bad news. Firstly because he misses the opportunity to get down to serious points business and slam a WDC around Run Free's ears in the Macca.

Secondly because it doesn't seem as if Renault will need a couple of seasons to get where they wanna be and waiting for developments like this can't be anyone's favorite hobby, see Fisico. I guess Trulli will be among the best paid drivers next year ...

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