Why do you watch?

[flatlandsman]

This is not meant to be an attack..

It is simply means to be almost a survey.

What is it about F1 that attracts you?

Is it driving, passing, venues, engineering, celebrities, glamour? Or is it simply habit and FOMO?

I am 50 odd and cannot recall a time when I was not even remotely interested in watching an F1 race, but the hybrid era has left me stone cold.

Is that because of domination? Yes partly, is it the sound, for sure, the cars are unappealing to look at, the tracks are too safe in some ways, the venues the series goes to are about money in most cases rather than challenge and history? It has always been expensive to watch but that seems to have gotten worse especially in the UK.

What are your reasons for still watching, are you a new fan, are you a lifer? Have you been and come back, especially if you used to watch but you love this modern era?

I find this fascinating as I have completely lost any love for F1, I still keep up to date but no longer watch races or anything, and I am interested in what it is that maintains an interest?

[Greem]

You've asked this before - on more than one occasion, if I recall - but not in a standalone thread, so... from

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...82#post4204513

I've been an F1 fan and latterly enthusiast since 1982. That's a lot of eras, a lot of changes, and an awful lot of laps. There's more to F1 than one race, it's a year long season, the intrigue and shenanigans never stop whether I like them or not. I can watch a single race and it could be amazing or dreadful but it's just one part of a whole - and that's a whole for me which is now in its fifth decade.

I've been a Manchester United fan for even longer - and I still am, despite them not being at the peak right now. There's more to most sports than just one match, race, or season.

Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment!

To turn the question around though - if you find F1 so diabolically bad these days, why do you persist with it? As a comparator, I find an awful lot of pop music these days a complete mystery, but I don't force myself to listen to it just so I can have a bad opinion. There's much more music out there than the big stuff, and it's the same with motorsport.

I'm not particularly enamoured with the WRC but I don't go out of my way to watch it and then tell everyone I don't like it. I just don't watch it!

[Richard C]

Probably easier to just quote my answer from the last time you asked.

Link for that answer to provide more context...

https://tentenths.com/forum/showpost...3&postcount=51

As my response was cut up a bit, the quote below may not make full sense of the context, so I tried to inject the context a bit into the info below

Originally Posted by Richard C

(context... when did you start)
I think I started watching around 1988 and pretty consistently a few years after that.

(context... why do you watch and what else do you watch)
I find it interesting that you use the very narrow "watch" vs. something broader that covers more of the overall experience.

I "follow" F1 (including watching races and qualifying, keeping up on news, participating in social media such as this site) as I enjoy the technical competition of the power unit and manufactures and the on track battles between the teams (drivers, strategists, pit crew, etc.). As to what I get out of it... it is a competition. There is always something of interest happening. I would love to see more F1 races in which there is tighter competition and more lap by lap action (such as driver battles). But... not at the expense of "helping hand" rules (see my comments about BoP below). Because to me those series are fiction. I am not here to watch fiction.

As to "watching". While I may occasionally watch something like a race or qualifying "live", I generally am watching it delayed and have no issues with fast forwarding through and skipping as needed.

What else am I watching/following? I used to follow WRC many years ago when it was much easier to watch in the US. I pretty much almost love endurance and GT racing as much as F1, but give the predominate series stopped having any real technological competition and are ruled by BoP strategy I pretty much lost nearly all interest (at the end of the semi-recent Porsche/Audi era). This may be fighting words for some people here, but for me, WEC, etc. is just one step away from theatrical wrestling.

Maybe that is a bit of a strong statement, but it illustrates how much of a priority I put upon competition that does not include "helping hands" for the purposes of entertainment. I think the fiction element of something like WEC is too much for me. If something like WEC moved back toward something that was focused on working to technical specifications and let the best team win, I would be instantly back to following it.

(context... F1 is not an open tech spec)
I get your point to a degree. F1 is a business. And the sandbox in which development is open is pretty small. But also larger than people think. As to "true innovation" what racing series today is doing that? None of the top ones for sure!

(context... F1 exists just to keep F1 employees employed and well paid)
I didn't quote this entire thing, but I just don't really get what you are saying here. People are over paid or something. I don't quite understand.

Question back at you flatlandsman... What do you think are good motorsports series that DONT have problems that you say F1 has? I have yet to find a perfect series out there.

Richard

Another question... what do you expect to get out of this that you haven't already? You admit you don't find it interesting and don't watch races, but at the same time you follow the sport. Why follow if you don't like it. I don't care for many sports so I don't keep up on what happens with them. It would just be a waste of my time.

Richard

[flatlandsman]

Forgive, I had no idea, I do not recall other members names or replies.

And in fairness I am not telling everyone not to watch it am I? Merely wondering what it is about this modern era that has made me lose interest. Yet gained a staggering amount of NEW fans, what is they see? I guess my feeling is a bit like football, I take a passing interest but feel no desire to pay and watch it, where I did in the past. I think with that moving around away from my home team and the expense are the reasons.

If you want to be tetchy about it, fair enough, that was not my intention. But no shock, it is a common theme.

[GORDON STREETER]

Personally I think that MotoGP is the best for "edge of the seat" viewing. I used to watch F1 but not anymore. One of my family work for McLaren so I do get to hear about it and know what is happening, however this last few years have really put me off !

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Another question... what do you expect to get out of this that you haven't already? You admit you don't find it interesting and don't watch races, but at the same time you follow the sport. Why follow if you don't like it. I don't care for many sports so I don't keep up on what happens with them. It would just be a waste of my time.

Thoughts? Comments?

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Forgive, I had no idea, I do not recall other members names or replies.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

If you want to be tetchy about it, fair enough, that was not my intention. But no shock, it is a common theme.

I think we are not trying to be overly sensitive, but as you have asked multiple times and it has been answered, and you admit you don't remember what people said last time you asked, why should people continue to answer. It also seems to be a one way discussion. See below...

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Merely wondering what it is about this modern era that has made me lose interest.

We can't answer the question for you. I am curious as to your answer. To my point above, you ask us "why?", can we not ask you "why?" I think you somewhat answered somewhat vaguely in a prior thread (broadly I think it was... the technical rules are not open enough for you, which is the same for pretty much all top motorsport series). So where do we go from here from a discussion perspective?

Richard

[Skam85]

Personally if I don't like something I don't tend to go to a very specific part of the internet to tell a small collection of people I don't like it.

But that's just me.

[Alan52]

This thread has inspired me to find a synchronised swimming forum and spend time asking people what they see in it because it is rubbish.
Then again maybe not that inspired.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

And in fairness I am not telling everyone not to watch it am I? Merely wondering what it is about this modern era that has made me lose interest. Yet gained a staggering amount of NEW fans, what is they see?

How about looking at the question from an alternative view?

What attracted you to watch F1 when you would consider yourself a fan?

[flatlandsman]

OK interesting point, thanks. It was the racing, the cars looked hard to drive, with proper gearboxes and turbo lag, tricky tracks, real personalities. Overtaking was real not fake, less petulant drivers, more men than footballer.

Was the racing better, in some ways yes, as you had to overtake properly, or wait for mistakes. Was it closer, not at all, often races were won by laps!

Was it still technically interesting, yes, there was more technology as it was all new, was it well done, probably no, as it was all new and the tech used to measure it was very basic.

A lot of that has been lost, the racing is very fake now, it still happens of course. But less so. The grid is closer yes, but the gaps at the end still seem huge between the haves and have nots. There as also romance, even garbage like Life, Andrea Moda, Forti Minardi you had a love for those teams do people love Haas? Not really.

And there is a misunderstanding from some posters I think, you can love many aspects of motorsport but not every part, especially when you once did! I don't really know why the interest has waned, it is a combination of cars, noise, racing and money.

I guess the hybrid era really was a killer, I recall watching the test at Jerez and seeing Ted stand by the track and talk normally while cars went by was a huge deal, I don't know why really as the V8's were not a nice sound were they? Very shrill and revvy, but there was noise.

I guess the reason for the question is that I am fascinated by what people see in modern F1, this new breed of fan, obviously this is not the place, as most people are just bitter and defensive at being asked!!

Honestly I am not complaining, I still appreciate the sport and see it as the pinnacle, I am merely asking people why they watch it.

[Greem]

I genuinely don't understand why you think the replies are "bitter and defensive". They've been quite open, and we've all asked the reverse question.

Sounds like a conversation to me!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

OK interesting point, thanks. It was the racing, the cars looked hard to drive, with proper gearboxes and turbo lag, tricky tracks, real personalities. Overtaking was real not fake, less petulant drivers, more men than footballer.

To look at the reasons that attracted a certain generation to the sport, and to set them into the context of today's newer viewer - I think the change in the general car world lies at why the sport is popular today:

I'll try and take each point in turn from the first couple of sentences - to hopefully demonstrate the potential mindset of a 'modern' arrival to the sport.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

the cars looked hard to drive,

This was at a time when the standard road car was (I would suggest) much more difficult to drive, with very few driver aids?
Drivers had to consider things such as manual chokes, points, distributors, coils etc. and tyre technology was less developed. Many were used to driving cars without ABS, TCS etc. There was a general acceptance that driving a car (sport or road) was hard, and so it was to be expected for F1. Nowadays, there is still the same difficulty, but manifested in a different way. Managing tyres, controlling aero wash etc. are all things that make today's F1 car difficult to drive, but they don't look obvious.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

with proper gearboxes

As more and more cars on the road lack 'proper' gearboxes, F1 would look outdated if they used the more traditional gearbox construct. Here, the expectation from a modern viewer is that modern cars should have modern gearboxes.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

and turbo lag,

As with gearboxes, turbo lag is less and less common in all types of car. From a viewers perspective, I'm not sure how turbo lag adds to the enjoyment of the sport.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

tricky tracks,

Jeddah, Miami, Monaco, Baku, Las Vegas are not tricky tracks?

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

real personalities.

I have difficulty in seeing the 'real' personalities as something other than outdated in many respects.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Overtaking was real not fake,

I can understand this - and it is a regular criticism of those new to the sport. The overtaking is a bit too artificial, but newcomers seem to accept that they would rather have artificial overtaking to none at all.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

less petulant drivers,

Is a petulant driver not showing their 'real' personality? Would it be preferable what are referred to as corporate drones?

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

more men than footballer.

This is quite dismissive of both an entire gender and another sport. It insinuates that the current drivers (who are all male) are lesser men in some way. And also suggests that the professional male footballers are also of a lesser status in some way. In a time when the sport is trying to be more inclusive, to take the stance that F1 drivers should be more masculine is a backwards step I feel.


What I think is clear from your reasoning is that you have a preference for an outdated version of the sport, that the world has moved on from. It is impossible to reverse time, and so the question of what appeals to current viewership is a reasonable question. I think it is folly though to try and compare with the past.

Maybe - approach the position from a blank slate. Look at the sport today without referring to the past, and ask - what would attract me to this sport if I had just landed from another planet and had no knowledge of the sport's history.
I would suggest it would be the technological excellence on display, the extreme level of driver talent, the dedication and professionalism of so many involved to deliver the performance that is seen.
Put yourself in the mind of a 12-yr old who visits an F1 race for the first time. They would be in awe of the performance, speed, handling, and scale of the machines and drivers on display. They would have no reason to look at previous noise, handling, or danger that existed within the sport.