Congratulations to Max Verstappen - 2022 Champion

[chillibowl]

Wow, the damage control makes Max look like an even bigger baby…and I’m a fan!

[VIVA GT]

What's the phrase about some people not being able to even lie straight in bed?

[Greem]

I'll be very surprised if Lambiasi remains as Max's race engineer next year. The "Are we clear about that?" comment was so immensely disrespectful, properly punching down.

[steve_r]

F1 is more divisive than ever. Many F1 fans used to look at fanatical football fans with utter distain, but that is what the sport has now become.

Red Bull and their senior staff have input more than their fair share into these kind of divisive narratives, which inevitably leads to negative reactions and abuse from idiots, trolls and swivel eyed-loons.

Welcome to the 21st century. Anyone with a keyboard can spout hate straight into the ear of drivers, teams and their respective families. I genuinely think if I was involved in the sport in some kind of high profile way that I would have absolutely no traceable online presence and I would encourage my family to be anonymous as well.


Oh - and RBR telling us that their none of their team of dozens of strategists with their supercomputers and gaming headsets envisaged the situation is either incompetence in the extreme (and results prove that they are not incompetent) or simply not true.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve_r

F1 is more divisive than ever. Many F1 fans used to look at fanatical football fans with utter distain, but that is what the sport has now become.

Red Bull and their senior staff have input more than their fair share into these kind of divisive narratives, which inevitably leads to negative reactions and abuse from idiots, trolls and swivel eyed-loons.

Welcome to the 21st century. Anyone with a keyboard can spout hate straight into the ear of drivers, teams and their respective families. I genuinely think if I was involved in the sport in some kind of high profile way that I would have absolutely no traceable online presence and I would encourage my family to be anonymous as well.


Oh - and RBR telling us that their none of their team of dozens of strategists with their supercomputers and gaming headsets envisaged the situation is either incompetence in the extreme (and results prove that they are not incompetent) or simply not true.

I'm not a Red Bull fan. Actually I'm not a fan of any particular team. By the time you get to the tender age of 62, favourite teams and drivers are neither here nor there.



Why do you say Red Bull and their senior staff have input more than their fair share into these kind of divisive narratives?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why do you say Red Bull and their senior staff have input more than their fair share into these kind of divisive narratives?

I think examples include:

Marko (when Hamilton had previously been experiencing back pain): "Hamilton got out of the car quickly today. When he’s on the podium, it’s a lot easier"

Mark: "I mean, [Hamilton] was lapped by us, so maybe he should have stopped last year."

Horner: "I’ve never once ever heard Lewis recognise Max’s ability."

Horner: "It’s one of the fastest corners in the world, you don’t stick a wheel up the inside, that’s just dirty driving."


I'm not saying that others are exempt from criticism, but the comments from Red Bull about (particularly) Hamiton always seem to carry a bit of a snarky tone.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why do you say Red Bull and their senior staff have input more than their fair share into these kind of divisive narratives?

Verstappen vs Hamilton / Red Bull vs Mercedes 2021 and the utterly tribal toxic narrative around that. I assume that horrible diversifying example in itself is enough and that i don't need to dig into anything else?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Verstappen vs Hamilton / Red Bull vs Mercedes 2021 and the utterly tribal toxic narrative around that. I assume that horrible diversifying example in itself is enough and that i don't need to dig into anything else?

Is that solely down to Red Bull and their senior staff, or more to do with the media?

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Is that solely down to Red Bull and their senior staff, or more to do with the media?

No it it not down to one party. I don't think I have said it is solely down to one party only.

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by steve_r

No it it not down to one party. I don't think I have said it is solely down to one party only.

I think Red Bull have not helped the situation, but the main problem is a mixture of more F1 fans being drawn in naturally meaning more awful fans, combined with the fact that social media always brings out the worst in people and F1 is more associated now with social media. Then maybe we can throw in a bit of DTS encouraging rivalries and the media generally looking for headlines as they have always done, plus Hamilton and Verstappen being quite divisive characters (not their fault) and last year being particularly exciting and controversial. And the end product is, sadly, a horribly toxic fanbase.

[chillibowl]

most public individuals who say offensive things are quickly told by their people to apologize, issue an (imo usually phoney) apology, donate some money and everyone moves on to the next twitter outrage.

When its Max calling Stroll or steward an offensive name or this time ignoring his team over the radio etc he always refuses to apologize, choses to stand by what he originally said as if that somehow excuses him from responsibility, then a few days or a week goes by and the fallout gets worse so others apologize on his behalf, and then and only then Max will himself also apologize while making it clear its the rest of us who are wrong for requiring this sort of public contrition.

its his pattern...one i must admit i forgive or have ignored way too frequently because he is really really good at sports.

of course i agree that no one should be subject to bullying whether in person or on line and members of the team or their children at school shouldn't bear the brunt of it...but exactly how am i supposed to react when it is the bully being bullied?

is turn about no longer fair play?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Is that solely down to Red Bull and their senior staff, or more to do with the media?

It's sometimes others connected to Red Bull posting about others in the team:

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It's sometimes others connected to Red Bull posting about others in the team:

That's an issue within Red Bull, not Verstappen vs Hamilton / Red Bull vs Mercedes 2021.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...ontent=Article

Red Bull statement is that Max was only informed to give the position back in the final corner and that he didn't have to do it.

This doesn't fit with the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf7j...l=G-ForceGamer

Not my recollection either....

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Greem

I'll be very surprised if Lambiasi remains as Max's race engineer next year. The "Are we clear about that?" comment was so immensely disrespectful, properly punching down.

"Felipe, Fernando is faster than you, do you understand?"

[Adam43]

Back in the days when you tried not to have overt team orders. And Felipe did let Fernando past. And old Smedders was super respectful to Massa - even when telling him where to brake for Saints Devote.

I don’t think that there was a request is Greem’s point.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Is that solely down to Red Bull and their senior staff, or more to do with the media?

this

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Back in the days when you tried not to have overt team orders. And Felipe did let Fernando past. And old Smedders was super respectful to Massa - even when telling him where to brake for Saints Devote.

I don’t think that there was a request is Greem’s point.

haha yes. I miss his soothing tone on the F1 radio airwaves.

[Adam43]

Filipe-baby!

Maybe Red Bull should say Maxi-baby to soothe him

[Greem]

Just while we're on the subject: me & Smedley back in 2015 on the day he was awarded an honorary degree at work. A thoroughly nice bloke with a very nice family.

[Anyopenroad]

Black shirt, tie and jacket is a strong look, I like it!

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Both Perez and Verstappen understand street fighter mentality and Perez will have gotten the message. Most of us here, including myself would go about things differently but we are not in an F1 car and sure no F1 championship winners.

From someone who is a championship winner:
https://the-race.com/formula-1/verst...sage-hakkinen/

Two-time Formula 1 world champion Mika Hakkinen believes fellow double champion Max Verstappen has sent his Red Bull team-mate Sergio Perez an important message with his team orders refusal.

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I see the difference, but is the fact that Verstappen didn't promise it a good enough reason for disobeying a specific team order?

That's something between Red Bull and Verstappen isn't it? We can all have our opinions on that, but it's ultimately down those two parties how to go about these matters. Personally I think the two people most crucial to Red Bull's 2021 and probably future success are Adrian Newey and Max Verstappen. Red Bull are quite aware of that I think.

Keep in mind that Max's father (who many of you love so dearly ) was around in the Schumacher era. In fact he was his team mate for a while. He will have been able to witness first hand how a strong driver can built a team around him and claim a position of power. Max wasn't random in his refusal, he announced it to the team before hand. The team should've realised Max his position in the team and spared themselves the embarrassment they have to go through now after acknowledging the situation.

Anyway, I am guilty of dragging this on longer than it's probably worth.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

From someone who is a championship winner:
https://the-race.com/formula-1/verst...sage-hakkinen/

Two-time Formula 1 world champion Mika Hakkinen believes fellow double champion Max Verstappen has sent his Red Bull team-mate Sergio Perez an important message with his team orders refusal.

Great article that because he calls Max naughty and doesn't at any point agree/justify what Max did.

Glad we have that clarified from Mika Hakkinen. And everyone else of course too, but especially Mika Hakkinen.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Great article that because he calls Max naughty

Nope, he does not. Feel free to quote the relevant part, but my advise would be to read it again before quoting it.

and doesn't at any point agree/justify what Max did.

Nor did I claim he did, nor does he do the opposite. He is giving meaning to what has happened without taking sides. Quite refreshing.

Glad we have that clarified from Mika Hakkinen. And everyone else of course too, but especially Mika Hakkinen.

Right. Anyway, as I have been again guilty of dragging this on one more post and am not desperate to win an internet debate, I will try to refrain from adding further to it.

LATE EDIT: Rumour has it Ricciardo is returning to Red Bull in a reserve role for 2023. Interesting turn of events that would be, given the most recent drama.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Nope, he does not. Feel free to quote the relevant part, but my advise would be to read it again before quoting it.

I did. Mika says it would be naughty to disregard a pre-race agreement. Red Bull claim there was no pre-race agreement. But Red Bull also claim they only asked Max on the last corner, which we know isn't true because...well we all watched the race. Max also said to stop asking him to give places back as he has continually clarified why - which means they did discuss it pre-race.

Maybe every time Max or Christian tells an obvious lie we should get Jos to slap them and leave them at a petrol station.